Could it be that we do not have a good indigenous program (one that we mocked Richmond for)?
He said “Came back to bite us on the ■■■■”, not simply drafted.
He said “Came back to bite us on the ■■■■”, not simply drafted.
Strange that none of the other 17 other clubs showed the remotest interest in Tippa - So criticise EFC for developing Tippa over three years to the player he is today - Weird.
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The mistakes of other clubs do not excuse ours.
And once again - compare and contrast the relative paths out of the reserves and on to the rookie list for Tippa and Ambrose. Which had showed the most at reserves level? Which was picked up after one unexceptional year while the other had to wait three? Which has proved to be the superior AFL performer so far?
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What a silly post - None of the other 17 AFL clubs went near Tippa - It was EFC who nurtured Tippa to what he is today.
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Well, unfortunately Australia is full of passive racism towards indigenous peoples. I’ve just moved out of an outback WA town after 10 years. As soon as my mates indigenous kids go into Kmart, they are followed. I have family friends whom are indigenous, renting out my old house. There was an electrical issue so my wife organised a sparky to go around. When he saw the people living there were indigenous, he demanded a $800 deposit before he’d look at it…no mention of it previously and I know for a fact he hadn’t done that to white clients. Oh, and do you think many real estate agents rent houses to black fellas when there’s a nice vanilla couple?
These guys have to face so many hurdles to make it…not in footy but in our day to day culture. It’s nice what we are doing at Tiwi, but EFC isn’t doing enough to be part of the solution.
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The fact is Essendon nurtured Tippa until he was ready to be put on an AFL list - Ambrose is a interesting example in that everyone was shocked when he was drafted - Not one of the regulars who watch VFL, EVER mentioned Ambrose as ever displaying AFL qualities - Yet, he has surprised and proven to be a wise selection - In the Ambrose and Tippa situation they were both drafted at around the same age. Ambrose at 23 and Tippa at 22 - The difference is Ambrose played more suburban footy before his year of VFL footy and Tippa 3 years of VFL, while I am unaware that Ambrose played TAC footy, while Tippa played 2 or 3 years of TAC - So there is nothing significantly different in their footy, except Tippa used the more traditional pathways to make the AFL.
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I am waiting for EFC to fill up it’s category B rookie places with multi-cultural players - Wait for the backlash.
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Yeah cool, I will put that up tomorrow, ports is mental
Well that depends on what you deem being bitten on the ■■■■.
And simply drafted goes against why I do those lists in the first place. They are about talking about guys who aren’t on peoples lists and worthy of late picks. It would be pretty easy to make a list of 5 guys who I think would be guns each year, and each year I do 2 guys who are so rank outside that they don’t even appear in the draft guide, because people like the storys
Just so you know, between 2013 and now 8 guys we have drafted have since been delisted, 3 of them without playing an afl game.
Of the guys I mentioned who got drafted in that period all are still on lists and only Kym Lebois and Willie Rioli are yet to see and afl game, and they were both drafted only last year.
But yeah, I’m ■■■■, that’s why 2 afl clubs have approached me to scout in the last 12 months.
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IT – You’re right – there have been issues with indigenous kids in recent years both at Essendon and elsewhere. Yestin Eades is one; Liam Jurrah, another; Or Dayle Garlett; Or Chris Yarran…and a bunch of others besides. All at different stages of their career – some yet to even start them – but, in the end, ultimately disappointing the recruiters and clubs who saw so much in them at the draft.
But that’s not to say that it’s just indigenous kids who struggle to find their feet once they reach the big time in the big cities. For a bunch of reasons:
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“Go-home Factor”:
Some of us just struggle away from our home environments and it’s just a reality. And it’s much more than indigenous kids. Without a helluva lot of research, I can name a handful: Josh Schache (drafted at # 2 and oh we were close to picking him up); Cam McCarthy – prepared to sit out a season to get back to WA; Jesse Hogan (scuttlebutt perhaps).
Even the Dons’ own Aaron Francis was (tentatively) open to returning to Adelaide.And we need only ask GWS (a bunch) or Brizzie (a bunch) or Adelaide (Dangerfield anyone…?) about players wanting to forsake their club to return home.
Walla, Dempsey, Rioli, Cockatoo-Collins, Long (and a bunch of others) all managed to overcome that desire to go home. The question we, as a club, need to ask ourselves is how we can ensure that players who aren’t from Melbourne or don’t fit into the mainstream culture are welcomed for their contribution to our club and the AFL in general. -
“Cultural Factor”
I confess that this is not my field so I’ll contain my remarks to general observations. You’re right to observe that some kids – indigenous and otherwise – struggle to settle in big cities. But it’s not only indigee kids but kids in general, all types, from the country. Always has been a factor. I’ve read that back in the day, Leon Baker was not too keen on life in the big smoke. Or Gary Ablett (snr). And a bunch of others that don’t spring to mind.
It’s not just the city / country thing either. Look at Adam Saad who is returning home for family and cultural reasons.
And I pose the same question: what do we, as a club, need to do to ensure that players feel welcome and settled and can thus can live up to the potential that shone so brightly when they were drafted? -
“Indigenous Factor”
Once again, not my area of expertise – might leave that up to Benfti – so will contain my observations to the very general. Sure, it’s real and affects some of those lads mightily. But is it any greater than the other factors? Probably not for me to say but, at a guess, I’d suggest not. And it depends on the circumstances of the individual kid don’t you think?
But it’s the same question: how do we set up our program such that those kids from outside the mainstream feel included, welcomed…valued and so able to thrive at our club.
And my reasons for asking that question are purely selfish: how do we get the best out of those that we recruit? 'Coz I’d argue that what the mainstream should and must do – use its resources to broaden our concept of who can be a part of it.
In the past, I’ve been proud of the role that Essendon took in including indigenous Australians. It worked for us as a club and it seemed to work, too, for many who wore the red & black. And I am keen to see us to pick up the baton and lead from the front again.
I’m with Ben on this – we’re being way too careful with some of our selections, particularly – but not only – our rookies. Rolling the die doesn’t always win; but not rolling them at all means that we’ll never know…
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Can i get a DM too please Ben?
Good point about being in the biz of winning premierships L2L but surely we can do both can’t we? Recruit broadly and win flags?
And not sure if Essendon does contribute more to indigee programs but it’d be worth checking just to see how genuine our commitment to Dreamtime really is…
Double LOL
While I would like more exciting indigenous boys winning games for the Bombers, I have no idea on the issues that benfti and others raise.
I have seen first hand the good that Footy Clubs do in the top of Australia, and understand that in Essendons and Port Adelaides case, it is about giving back to communities and not about finding the next Michael Long. Sending senior players to NT enhances the life of all concerned and if you ask players who make these trips there is always a smile at remembering the experience. Maybe development of an Academy in the Top End is a better idea.
That said, some of the comments attack the integrity of our recruitment staff. They have a job to do and that is to get the players that get us to our goals, irrespective of where they come from or the colour of their skin.
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Your post assumes that we are using race as a factor in our recruiting. The reality is that we are just selecting the player we think Will most likely make it.
If that means we get 10 indigenous players on the list or 0 that’s fine.
My only concern is if we are recruiting duds and not improving our list. Looking at our list and the talented former list players running around with other teams, I’m pretty happy with our strategy.
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If you don’t give Walla and his family (which he also had to seek out) 99% of the credit for developing himself, you don’t know his story (which I think you would).
The point being Walla’s determination and extraordinary journey is a one in a million occurrence. The hoops EFC required him to jump through meant he had to make himself AFL ready before they would even select him as a rookie.
His love and dedication to EFC meant he was not presenting himself to other AFL clubs, doing extra training outside their offices on top of his 3 jobs.
If EFC had believed in him sooner he could have dedicated himself full time to becoming an elite footballer a couple of years earlier.
It is true that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, and fortunately for EFC Walla is the Hercules of determination to succeed. If you expect everyone to have to do what Walla did to succeed then you won’t have any more players anything like him, because he is so exceptional.
Hopefully at least for our Next Generation zone players they will/are getting the support to make success more reasonably possible.
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Can I make a suggestion @Humble_Minion?
How about instead of ranting on a fan forum, you get involved at board level, or club level in some way so that you can add your (and our) voice more clearly.
Ranting on a forum isn’t going to do anything to change the situation.
Every organisation right now is under scrutiny (by themselves, stakeholders and the community) to improve its practices of embracing diversity. Look around! Community expects this to be addressed. asking a genuine question of ‘how can our club be more diverse in recruiting indigenous players’ is not alluding to ‘racism’. It’s about a rigid recruiting process and shuting out a group of young men because they were born into societies definition of disadvantage.