He wasn't playing on medium forwards last year. He was playing on guys like Lynch.
Yes but this is actually kind of my point - do we think that he’ll be playing on guys like Lynch once again this year, now that Hurley and Hooker are back in the side?
Even if Hooker stays forward, you’d have Hurley and Hartley taking the key talls, with Ambrose left to take the medium forward, which I’m not sure he’s cut out for.
If Ambrose is able to blanket Lynch, which he did a far better job of than Hurley in the past, why wouldn’t you okay him and let Hurley play on the second or third best for forward in order to create a mismatch?
Ambrose doesn’t have to get a single touch to be of value to the side.
I’d rather have our AA key defender take the opposition’s best key forwards than Ambrose, who battled manfully last year when we had zero other options available.
I’m the opposite. I’d rather see Ambrose completely negate one of the top opposition forwards and take them out of the game. Then have Hurley on the 2nd or 3rd guy and being able to drift off and set up plays going forward.
This so much. Ambrose is a good negator but offers very little attack wise. Let him clamp down the opposition gun forward and allow Hurley to run and carry and set up play
He’s one of those players that plays a role for the team and that is to negate the gun forward.
The bigger question is who will be the number three tall defender after Hurley and Ambrose - Play Hurley in a totally attacking role and it will be Hartley, or if Hurley is in a less attacking role it will be Brown.
Last year i saw him play in the vfl and he was rubbish. I got home and proclaimed he should never play another game. 2 weeks later he was back in the seniors and stayed there all year and deserved to. Defensively he is one of the best pkayers in the league. Offensively he is one of the worst. Hartley and hurley will be the first 2 kpd picked and i can see brown and ambrose fighting it out for the 3rd key tall spot down back. A lot will depend on match ups.
I also think ambrose could be a midfield tagger on someone like bontempelli.
I think he’ll get a game more often than not though
Agree with all of that except for the midfield tagger role.
Yep, I think that was sort of experimented with a little last year; not him tagging as such, but spending a bit of time in the middle and I don’t think it worked. He has found his home in defence
Completely recognise and applaud his talents as taller lock down defender - but same can also be said of Hartley - and neither of them are effective offensively.
To me, there appears a lot of support already for a backline of:
Unless we play on a team where we may need to negate several key talls (ala West Coast or GWS), I’m just not sure we need all three of Hurley, Ambrose and Hartley. By doing so, are we sacrificing a spot that would be better taken by a rebounding player? We seem to lack a bit of speed and/or polish kicking coming out of the backline if the above were the case.
Edit: the development of McGrath and Francis would be crucial to our backline structure.
I am probably going against the majority here. but i would prefer the following backline
B: Bags Ambrose Dea
HB: Kelly Hurley McGrath
Hartley has had a injury interrupted preseason, and I have ambrose just ahead.
Hurley to CHB where he can be more attacking.
Dea playing 3rd tall def/medium def. For the Huge forwardlines could bring in Hartley/Brown.
McGrath to do apprenticeship under Kelly.
Gleeson might still be in the 22.
Gleeson is definitely in our best 22 based on that game. He was our best defender all night.
Does the CLUB value the role Ambo plays? They seem to keep picking him. That would suggest yes.
This is what they put up on the club website in a review of the JLT #1game.
“…Ambrose shut down role
Patrick Ambrose was moved to defence last year after spending the first two seasons of his career in attack.
He matched it with some of the best in the competition;
Matthew Pavlich (Fremantle) round 11 1 goal (after Ambrose was moved onto him)
Jeremy Cameron (GWS) round 13 2 goals
Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda) round 16 1 goal
Jack Riewoldt (Richmond) round 17 0 goals
Tom Lynch (Adelaide) round 19 0 goals
Tom Lynch (Gold Coast) round 21 2 goals
And last night restricted Collingwood forward Darcy Moore to six disposals, one mark and one goal…”
All of which we knew, but the club seem to be wanting to put it out there. That would suggest yes !
Last year i saw him play in the vfl and he was rubbish. I got home and proclaimed he should never play another game. 2 weeks later he was back in the seniors and stayed there all year and deserved to. Defensively he is one of the best pkayers in the league. Offensively he is one of the worst. Hartley and hurley will be the first 2 kpd picked and i can see brown and ambrose fighting it out for the 3rd key tall spot down back. A lot will depend on match ups.
I also think ambrose could be a midfield tagger on someone like bontempelli.
I think he’ll get a game more often than not though
Agree with all of that except for the midfield tagger role.
If a tall mid like bontempelli was dominating against us, I can’t see why you wouldn’t try Ambo on him. His blend of strength & athleticism should give him every chance to succeed in those sorts of jobs.
And if successful, would be such an asset for us to have someone who can control some of these tall opposition mids who can turn games.
Roughy returning from a long enforced absence will be without a lot of match conditioning. Not convinced he will be the threat he was in the past. Ambrose may be better value matched up against Gunston.
Ambrose is the master of putting body on body contact on his opponent without wrapping his arms around or doing anything else that might draw a free. If he can improve so much in this area in a very short time I’m sure he’s capable of focusing on the other aspects of his game if that’s what his coaches want (and he seems like the kind of guy to do exactly what his coaches ask of him).
Roughy returning from a long enforced absence will be without a lot of match conditioning. Not convinced he will be the threat he was in the past. Ambrose may be better value matched up against Gunston.
But then when hey slays roughy the haters will be converted?
I thought Ambrose gave away three goals when he dropped an easy chest mark and gave away two frees for high contact in front of goal.
To my mind this negates his negating.
Probably true Jackie. I think we all recognise that Ambrose is far from a complete footballer. I dont think anyone disputes that.
If the coaches decide to dispense with KPD lockdown players, then they can bring in intercept type players that we already have on the list like Brown, or Dea/Gleason, Francis etc, or we can get a better defender during the next trade period.
My bet is that while Ambrose holds KPFs to 1-2 goals per game they will keep on selecting him, otherwise, the likes of Tippett/Franklin, Riewoldt, Jenkins, Lynch, J. Cameron, Hawkins, Darling. Walker, Hogan, Gunston, Patton, Lobb, Bruce etc , might each kick a bag, because our mids are still not so good they can win every clearance.
I thought Ambrose gave away three goals when he dropped an easy chest mark and gave away two frees for high contact in front of goal.
To my mind this negates his negating.
Probably true Jackie. I think we all recognise that Ambrose is far from a complete footballer. I dont think anyone disputes that.
If the coaches decide to dispense with KPD lockdown players, then they can bring in intercept type players that we already have on the list like Brown, or Dea/Gleason, Francis etc, or we can get a better defender during the next trade period.
My bet is that while Ambrose holds KPFs to 1-2 goals per game they will keep on selecting him, otherwise, the likes of Tippett/Franklin, Riewoldt, Jenkins, Lynch, J. Cameron, Hawkins, Darling. Walker, Hogan, Gunston, Patton, Lobb, Bruce etc , might each kick a bag, because our mids are still not so good they can win every clearance.
Fair enough Chris it’s just that I can remember the Kevin Walsh years where the coach loved his negative play and would put him on players like Brereton. Not all of us agreed with Sheed’s judgement on this one.
For me I don’t think it’s too concerning he doesn’t offer much offensively as long as he doesn’t make mistakes that cost us goals, which he did against The Pies. I would like to see Hurley play a more loose game with Heartly as the other KPF minder.
Hurley can provide some incredible intercept marking at times and his offensive kicking is sublime. Without having to worry about Moore or Lynch we could see him cut through teams from the HBF.
If he gets selected round 1 that will give a clear indication what the coach thinks on Ambrose. Especially if the whole list is available for selection. For what its worth I think he will be in the starting 18 on the ground Round 1.
The same Blitzers who are whingeing about Ambrose now, were whingeing about Cale Hooker five years ago. They didn’t understand backline work then and the’ve learnt nothing about it in the meantime.
Like Hooksy, Paddy’s going nowhere: he’s too valuable to us.