#29 Patrick Ambrose -- forward or back?

[Ants]

Completely recognise and applaud his talents as taller lock down defender - but same can also be said of Hartley - and neither of them are effective offensively.

To me, there appears a lot of support already for a backline of:

B: Bags, Hartley, Ambrose
HB: Kelly, Hurley, Gleeson

Unless we play on a team where we may need to negate several key talls (ala West Coast or GWS), I’m just not sure we need all three of Hurley, Ambrose and Hartley. By doing so, are we sacrificing a spot that would be better taken by a rebounding player? We seem to lack a bit of speed and/or polish kicking coming out of the backline if the above were the case.

Edit: the development of McGrath and Francis would be crucial to our backline structure.

There are a lot of team who play 3 talls though. From last year’s top eight teams:
GWS: Cameron, Patton, Lobb
Sydney: Franklin, Tippett, Reid (last year Richards)
Adelaide: Jenkins, Tex, Lynch
WCE: Kennedy, Darling, resting ruck
Nth: Waite, Brown, Daw/Woods
Hawthorn: Roughead, Vickery, Gunston

The same Blitzers who are whingeing about Ambrose now, were whingeing about Cale Hooker five years ago. They didn't understand backline work then and the've learnt nothing about it in the meantime.

Like Hooksy, Paddy’s going nowhere: he’s too valuable to us.

I’m pretty sure the knocks on hooker where injury related and specifically did the hammies cripple him ( um you know like they did pears).

Hooker always had the smarts and intercept marking however.
Ambrose doesn’t.

I rate Ambrose and think if they can find a spot for him that’d be great, and i hope he develops into a player. It shouldn’t be as a key defender though, as he just isn’t smart enough essentially to cover his inexperience atm. He may be able to stop his opponent in a contest, but once the ball hits the ground, again he just doesn’t have the composure that’s needed down there.

That and hurley, hooker and hartley should be above him in the pecking order, and rightly so.If he plays rd 1, as a kpd, then either one of the 3 above are injured, or it raises a serious red flag about worsfold IMO.

The knocks on Hooker were around disposal (some shocking turn overs) and one-on-one play. But he improved in both, while his intercept marking kept improving. If Ambrose was being beaten so much on the ground, we’d have noticed last year. We didn’t. He beat his man and kept a lot of dangerous forwards down.

If he plays Round 1 it will make a lot of sense to a lot of us. Hell, I’d have much preferred him on Hawkins in JLT3 than Hurley. On JLT form Hurley is lucky to be playing round 1.

[Ants]

4 years ago our defence was top 3 in the AFL. This comprised almost all high quality intercepting players, ground level intercept specialists Baggers, Hibbo, Fletch, Dempsey , intercept marking specialists Hooker, Carlisle, Baggers, Hibbo, Fletch, this meant we were able to play a zone defence and not rely on lock downs ( except maybe Baggers on the best small forward if they were a threat)

Things have changed a lot.

We lost the intercepting power we once had, So there are 2 options. bring in good intercept marking players, or develop them.We have 4 -5 potentially good younger ones: Dea, Gleeson, Hartley , Brown, McGrath but as yet they are not good enough to emulate the defence of 5 years ago.

In the meantime we have to follow a lockdown strategy and move to the zone only when the press is on. This means using Ambrose as pure lockdown, Hartley to transition to intercept marking, Baggers to lockdown and MCGrath to learn to lock down, then become a ground level interceptor.

Trying to look back at our old defence is a fools game. We had Fletcher who was a once in a generation player, who could intercept mark, had deadly (long) disposal and could play small or tall. We have lost Hibberd and Carlisle, Dempsey went to crap and then was delisted, and Bags is starting to age (based on JLT form anyway). That defence is gone and the question is what is built in its place.

I would argue we don’t have any good intercepting options other than Hooker to bring in. Hooker is too important forward. Francis may become a great option, but needs to prove his ability and fitness in the VFL first. We have to make do with what we do, and play to our strengths. A player who can shut down the opposition’s main marker isn’t the same as an intercept marker as you don’t automatically get ball control, but is still a good stop-gap. Ambrose does this, and frees up Hurley/Dea/Brown (whoever is playing 3rd tall) to be more aggressive in the air. I think he has to play.

[True_Value_Blitzer]

Just really really hope this bloke is in the 22

[chris_64]

Firstly , drawing comparisons with the way things were serves to underline the way things are now. Of course we cannot go back, we have to use the players we have , or help them to improve their games.

In JLT#3 Ambrose took some contested marks , a couple of intercept marks, and played on a range of players. It seemed like the coaches were trying him out to see if he could take on a more attacking role. It was partly successful. Because Hurls had a bad game, Ambrose ended up being our #1 rated defender. He didnt do that on the basis of being a pure lockdown…

It totally depends on what value you put on attacking vs negative play, when assessing a defender. and ultimately how that role fits into the game plan.

I too think Ambrose should play.

[SCarey]

Fletch has anointed his successor and also Hooker’s:

Dustin Fletcher’s ‘best 22’

Essendon champion Dustin Fletcher has joined more than 4,000 fans in trying to pick his ‘best 22’.

All players were considered fully fit for the purpose of the exercise.

Fletcher likes what the emerging Martin Gleeson, Michael Hartley and Patrick Ambrose can offer in defence.

B: Mark Baguley, Michael Hartley, Patrick Ambrose

HB: Brent Stanton, Michael Hurley, Martin Gleeson

C: Travis Colyer, Jobe Watson, Darcy Parish

HF: Orazio Fantasia, Cale Hooker, Josh Green

F: Tom Bellchambers, Joe Daniher, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

R: Matthew Leuenberger, Dyson Heppell, Zach Merrett

I: David Myers, Brendon Goddard, David Zaharakis, James Kelly

Fletcher’s ‘best 22’ was used to judge the winner of the ‘pick your best 22’ competition.

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2017-03-23/dustin-fletchers-best-22

If Ambrose is good enough for the great man, he is good enough for me.

[chris_64]

Horses for courses. Sheeds tried Fletch in the ruck, but not for long.

[PipetoNul]

Obviously the coaching staff think Ambrose is best 22. That pretty much answers the question as far as I am concerned.

[Paul_Peos]

He’s played round 1 every year he’s been at the club.

And that’s three different coaches.

[percebushby]

there is no way Ambrose got a 1 year deal so he can get a better deal at the end of this year. The reality is that if he was highly rated they would have given him more than 1 year firstly because he would be cheaper that way and secondly to reduce the risk of someone else poaching him.The 1 year deal reflects what several posters on here have been saying. That is that Ambrose is a good stopper with some attacking deficiency and inability to play other positions. The club rates him to some extent else he would not have got the one year contract. This will be a make or break year for Ambrose

Remember Mark McVeigh ?

[werewolf]

Yes.

[choppsuey]

So with no Brad Hill out there for Smugthorn, who is Ambrose going to bury in the southern side wing tomorrow night? I really really really hope it’s that smarmy ■■■■ Issac Smith. That ■■■■ personifies everything I hate about Smugthorn.

[Warlock_Paul]

He’s played round 1 every year he’s been at the club.

And that’s three different coaches.

Ambrose is a machine. He has pretty much played every game that he has been fit for over the past three years. I am sure he will play another big role this year.

[Ants]

He’s played round 1 every year he’s been at the club.

And that’s three different coaches.

Ambrose is a machine. He has pretty much played every game that he has been fit for over the past three years. I am sure he will play another big role this year.

I’m a supporter, but this is plain wrong.

[Eastie_Boi1]

He’s played round 1 every year he’s been at the club.

And that’s three different coaches.

Ambrose is a machine. He has pretty much played every game that he has been fit for over the past three years. I am sure he will play another big role this year.

I’m a supporter, but this is plain wrong.

By my math he’s played 8 VFL games, been AFL emergency 3 times, missed 6 games through injury and played 51 games in the 1s.
I’d personally call that pretty much every game, particularly when you consider he’s only played 3 seasons at AFL

[Ants]

He’s played round 1 every year he’s been at the club.

And that’s three different coaches.

Ambrose is a machine. He has pretty much played every game that he has been fit for over the past three years. I am sure he will play another big role this year.

I’m a supporter, but this is plain wrong.

By my math he’s played 8 VFL games, been AFL emergency 3 times, missed 6 games through injury and played 51 games in the 1s.
I’d personally call that pretty much every game, particularly when you consider he’s only played 3 seasons at AFL

Well, if you’re defining “every game” as excluding every time he is an emergency or plays VFL, then sure, he’s played every game when he’s fit…

[evilcow]

Absolute Gun. Apologies about how wrong I was about this guy… so important to us!!

[Alan_Noonan_10]

Played very well tonight

[Riolio]

Is a rock.

[Paul_Peos]

Is slowly devoloping his intercept marking.

Has steadily improved each game he has played in defence.

[Bomber93]

Destroyed Gunston, I don’t be give a stuff if he doesn’t attack, if he’s making a gun forward look irrelvevant then that more than makes up for him not being an attacking defender