Leader, 3 time premiership player, tough, still has it.
Welcome James. Will guide our young mids and provide protection. Parish and Zerrett will know have the ability to flourish without the extreme added pressure of being the best and only mids.
Leader, 3 time premiership player, tough, still has it.
Welcome James. Will guide our young mids and provide protection. Parish and Zerrett will know have the ability to flourish without the extreme added pressure of being the best and only mids.
Would rather Kelly off the halfback than Goddard next yr.
Heâs my tip for B&F too.
Iâm for giving kids a go in the square, but when we were being completely smashed would have liked to see Kelly in the middle. .
My ideal centre bounce set up would be Leuey/Kelly/Zaka/Zerrett
then rotate the others through and rest him in defence.
His ability to win 1-1âs is great in defence and hes a general back there, but after great starts to the year zaka & zerett need a little help inside, especially with Bird concussed.
Send him to the midfield, send experienced guys like Demps and baguley back.
Rookie listed player coach
I reckon you might be right.He's a freak. Its great to watch a genuinely top-flight footy player ply his trade, even allowing for him being a couple of seasons past his best.Could legit win the B&F if he can get through the season. Not sure what that says in general but would be a remarkable finale.
I actually think he will win it, certainly at this stage.
It would be a pretty fitting way for him to go out.
Of all the âpast their bestâ players that joined our side over the last 10 or so years, he is by far the most impressive.
He's a freak. Its great to watch a genuinely top-flight footy player ply his trade, even allowing for him being a couple of seasons past his best.Could legit win the B&F if he can get through the season. Not sure what that says in general but would be a remarkable finale.
I actually think he will win it, certainly at this stage.
It would be a pretty fitting way for him to go out.
Of all the âpast their bestâ players that joined our side over the last 10 or so years, he is by far the most impressive.
He's a freak. Its great to watch a genuinely top-flight footy player ply his trade, even allowing for him being a couple of seasons past his best.Could legit win the B&F if he can get through the season. Not sure what that says in general but would be a remarkable finale.
Oozes poise under pressure . Sounds a bit revolting, but in fact its so good.
A Saints fan behind me was saying âwhos that â â â â â â 47 guyâ
Heâs a freak. Its great to watch a genuinely top-flight footy player ply his trade, even allowing for him being a couple of seasons past his best.
Could legit win the B&F if he can get through the season. Not sure what that says in general but would be a remarkable finale.
I knew Iâd regret this, but Iâll respond.
Is his leadership so important next year that you keep him for that purpose?
Iâve already said this was the cherry, not the cake.
Is his play so important that he is obviously better than the list I made, Who is he better than, why and what are the consequences of this?
IMO, heâs is the best half back weâve had since Bomber. And Iâd donât see any detrimental consequences in playing guns, and IMO, heâs a gun. He is strong, disciplined, has decent toe,chooses good options, gets heaps of the ball, delivers well into the 50, doesnât panic, has a great sense of positioning and actually improved as the year progressed.
Does he playing help or hinder player retention, on field senior football development?
Not sure what you mean by âplayer retentionâ but Iâll go for help and the reasons why have been put forward over and over again even though you may not accept them.
What clubs are retaining as many old players as us who are not in the âpremiership windowâ next year? We have Watson, Stanton and Goddard. Who are GC, Lions, Tigers, Blues, Norf, Port and Pies (they think they are having a crack) keeping on who fit that age bracket. Kelly would make 4 for us. Who else has 4?
No idea but of the 3 players mentioned Iâd only have Watson in front of him in the 22 order and I personally donât see those 4 as an issue because they clearly look after themselves. I donât see any of those 3 playing a half back general role as successfully as Kelly either,.
Do even premiership contenders have 4 or more next year? Who? Is this not Cats issue, old blokes still doing the heavy lifting? Hawks do - we criticise them for it. They were the 2 worst performed finals teams except WCE.
As above.
OK Iâm done, starting to feel too much like homework. Iâll withdraw from future debate on this thread.
L2L gone full yaco
Theres nothing surer he will go around again with us.
James Kelly is a EFC player in 2017
I suspect I'll regret this, but I'll respond. Firstly, do you have inside information that Kelly isn't going on? All I've heard is what I've read here, namely that a process is being worked through. Even 33 year olds get offered contracts, believe it or not. How does that qualify as "crazy"? So is it hyperbole or inside info?I accept that going forward everything must be viewed through the prism of the Doggies' victory, so I will too. I reckon the Doggies were pretty pleased that one of Kelly's OLDER former teammates, who happened to kick 43 goals for GWS this year (same as Joe?), was suspended from the Prelim they won narrowly. Oh well, I guess his younger replacement received valuable game time experience...is that right?If you say one of the kids you are doing it wrong, that list of players needs and deserves games and you are jeopardising their development for what? The romance of giving some old bloke another year because he seems like a great guy and is a leader?
This discussion is crazy because he ainât gonna be on the list and I donât know how that is gonna dissapoint or surprise 75% of people in this threadâŚ
Further your comment âThe romance of giving some old bloke another year because he seems like a great guy and is a leaderâ is classic straw man fallacy (âa distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that positionâ). The advocates of Kellyâs retention first and foremost have focused on his on field contributions, contributions that earned him a high position in the B/F. I marveled at his finish to the year, which was reflected in the late season votes where he flew home to finish second. The fact that he has been lauded for temperament and leadership is a cherry, not the cake.
I donât know what will happen but I hope we pick him up and I actually believe his presence on the field will help and not hinder our development, and I think players like Ambrose and Gleeson have already improved as a result of his leadership and example on the field. His positioning and anticipation is IMO better than anyone on our list. The younger players have a bar in front of them they need to clear, thatâs how it should be IMO.
I will respond to you GRR because you have placed an argument (you have good points) on the table not just âKelly is great, keep Kelly, Kelly must play blah blahâ
However I would note that nobody who wants to keep Pops is ever answering my questions because they are hard questions to answer. I would love to read your answers to the questions.
So I will answer yours though.
Firstly, do you have inside information that Kelly isnât going on?
How does that qualify as âcrazyâ?
Further your comment âThe romance of giving some old bloke another year because he seems like a great guy and is a leaderâ is classic straw man fallacy (âa distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that positionâ). The advocates of Kellyâs retention first and foremost have focused on his on field contributions, contributions that earned him a high position in the B/F. I marveled at his finish to the year, which was reflected in the late season votes where he flew home to finish second.
The fact that he has been lauded for temperament and leadership is a cherry, not the cake.
I actually believe his presence on the field will help and not hinder our development
I think players like Ambrose and Gleeson have already improved as a result of his leadership and example on the field.
The younger players have a bar in front of them they need to clear, thatâs how it should be IMO.
So please answer my questions. I would like to be swayed. But as of yet nobody has been clear on accepting or considering the other consequences of him continuing on.
Is his leadership so important next year that you keep him for that purpose?
Is his play so important that he is obviously better than the list I made, Who is he better than, why and what are the consequences of this?
Does he playing help or hinder player retention, on field senior football development?
What clubs are retaining as many old players as us who are not in the âpremiership windowâ next year? We have Watson, Stanton and Goddard. Who are GC, Lions, Tigers, Blues, Norf, Port and Pies (they think they are having a crack) keeping on who fit that age bracket. Kelly would make 4 for us. Who else has 4?
Do even premiership contenders have 4 or more next year? Who? Is this not Cats issue, old blokes still doing the heavy lifting? Hawks do - we criticise them for it. They were the 2 worst performed finals teams except WCE.
To MODS. If I am wrong and he is retained, please ban me from Blitz until March 17. Iâm serious, I mean it. I am so confident on him not being there that I would have deserved it. But I struggle how lots of people canât see it.
I rate your post L2LBut surely Trav is a certainty
100% agree. I personally have other certainties too but I didnât want to push my personal bias too far.
"Junior Merrett" is Zerrett, not Jerrett. L2L all credibility gone.
Haha. Simple mistake. I am aware Jerret is older but if that is my credibility gone then thatâs fine dambuster.
âJunior Merrettâ is Zerrett, not Jerrett.
L2L all credibility gone.
James Kelly = F*cking Gun
Id play Kelly, because heâs a good player. I like good players playing for the football club i support
I rate your post L2L
But surely Trav is a certainty
I accept that going forward everything must be viewed through the prism of the Doggies' victory, so I will too. I reckon the Doggies were pretty pleased that one of Kelly's OLDER former teammates, who happened to kick 43 goals for GWS this year (same as Joe?), was suspended from the Prelim they won narrowly. Oh well, I guess his younger replacement received valuable game time experience...is that right?
Why are we comparing our list mgmt strategy with contenders again. People are comparing apples with oranges.
We are not contenders. If we are not contenders you play the kids whenever in doubt. We have got plenty of kids who have shown enough to deserve games (they wouldnât be gifted).
Should prioritise the following (some are obvious because they are our best players but still they are young so I put them on the list);
Langford
LAverde
Parish
Francis
Fantasia
Tippa
Daniher
Zerret
Gleeson
Thatâs 9 spots.
Their development is paramount. And I donât care what people say these particular players development is best served in the AFL not VFL. As for Morgan, Redman, Long and our new draftees they probably need more time being in the bests in the VFL before I would say there development is better served in the AFL (unless we unearth another Parish in the draft) but I would not be surprised if Redman makes that jump next year. McKenna I am 50/50 on.
So letâs say thatâs 9 spots in the side taken.
Then you have as certainties;
Hepp
Watson
Goddard
Hurley
Hooker
Leuenberger
Baguley
Zaharakis
So we are already up 17 players you would say should be playing senior footy if they are fit.
And then you have the following who would be selected based on form / structure (some of which in my opinion should be certainties but others may disagree);
Bellchambers
McKenna
Hartley
Ambrose
Stanton
Colyer
Myers
Bird
Hocking
Howlett
Dea
Hams (if kept)
JErret (thanks Dambuster!)
Long
McKenna
Redman
Morgan
McKernan
Then Our draftees, trade etc.
So letâs say our best side has 5 spots available out of the above list. When you pick your team who are you gonna leave out for Kelly and the 2nd question is for what purpose?
If you say one of the kids you are doing it wrong, that list of players needs and deserves games and you are jeopardising their development for what? The romance of giving some old bloke another year because he seems like a great guy and is a leader?
This discussion is crazy because he ainât gonna be on the list and I donât know how that is gonna dissapoint or surprise 75% of people in this threadâŚ
I suspect I'll regret this, but I'll respond. Firstly, do you have inside information that Kelly isn't going on? All I've heard is what I've read here, namely that a process is being worked through. Even 33 year olds get offered contracts, believe it or not. How does that qualify as "crazy"? So is it hyperbole or inside info?I accept that going forward everything must be viewed through the prism of the Doggies' victory, so I will too. I reckon the Doggies were pretty pleased that one of Kelly's OLDER former teammates, who happened to kick 43 goals for GWS this year (same as Joe?), was suspended from the Prelim they won narrowly. Oh well, I guess his younger replacement received valuable game time experience...is that right?If you say one of the kids you are doing it wrong, that list of players needs and deserves games and you are jeopardising their development for what? The romance of giving some old bloke another year because he seems like a great guy and is a leader?
This discussion is crazy because he ainât gonna be on the list and I donât know how that is gonna dissapoint or surprise 75% of people in this threadâŚ
Further your comment âThe romance of giving some old bloke another year because he seems like a great guy and is a leaderâ is classic straw man fallacy (âa distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that positionâ). The advocates of Kellyâs retention first and foremost have focused on his on field contributions, contributions that earned him a high position in the B/F. I marveled at his finish to the year, which was reflected in the late season votes where he flew home to finish second. The fact that he has been lauded for temperament and leadership is a cherry, not the cake.
I donât know what will happen but I hope we pick him up and I actually believe his presence on the field will help and not hinder our development, and I think players like Ambrose and Gleeson have already improved as a result of his leadership and example on the field. His positioning and anticipation is IMO better than anyone on our list. The younger players have a bar in front of them they need to clear, thatâs how it should be IMO.