#5 Devon Smith - Best and Fairest (really)


#2426

How many midfielders can you carry that have little influence forward?


#2427

Way more than fwds who can’t mid!


#2428

in your lala land km, what mids do we have that can’t actually play other positions other than parish?


#2429


#2430

So we have Begley and Laverde who are both inconsistent/unproven midfield and forward.

We have Parish, McGrath and Langford who are all unproven Mids and of the three only Langford has played much forward.

I still think there are room for a specialist player like Bags who can actually lead up to the wings to provide an outlet.

I’m a fan of Bags obviously and I dont see how Begley or Laverde are in front of him in any aspect of the game.


#2431

this is my story ivan, not bomb_does


#2432

Delist :wink:

Looks like he did an “expert” crystal ball in the Scum and had the Tigers winning the flag and not us.

Funnily enough, of all the experts we only missed the 8 on one persons crystal ball… Tyson Goldsack’s.


#2433

I’m happy to have ALL the forwards having extra shots at goal.

Now we need the midfielders to think the same.


#2434

I get what you are saying. Like Reboot said, we have the bench, and it’d be more efficient to throw Bags in, release one of Fanta or Walla to midfield, rest the likes of Parish and Shiel on bench - they’re pure mids, you don’t want to use them as a pressure forward and you don’t really rest them forward unless they can actually play forward like Stringer and Langford.

And besides, we should be aiming to lock the ball down in our forward half, so Bags is more valuable than a fwd/mid rotation, imo.


#2435

Totally agree.

Bags applies far more pressure as well as puts on scoreboard pressure.

If we don’t apply pressure in our forward 50 then that allows the opposition to just waltz out and hit targets and then our mids end up chasing tail all day.

I think Bags work down there last year is tremendously underrated and a huge part of why we actually improved out of site last year.


#2436

Agree Bags contribution is underrated. Laverde and Begley could be anything but let them force their way in.


#2437

Definitely a hard one. Always rated Baguley very highly he has had some very solid years for us in defence and last year he displayed real mongrel in our forward 50 but very close to the age of 32 you would think that giving the young kids (begs, laverde etc) experience on the big stage would have to be top of the agenda, although I think we have a genuine chance on winning the premiership this year i’d say our chances will be more within 2020 - 2024 just based on our age demographic. I think the scope of potential for kids like begs and laverde is very high, i’d personally like to see them thrown in the deep end for a few games to get some continuity and see what happens.


#2438

I wouldnt be suprised if Langford is getting jealous about all this baguely talk from KM


#2439

It’s Fyfy to you


#2440

You may as well state they are unproven footballers then. So I’d say that point is irrelevant.

Also. People are talking as if Baguley is our only pressure forward.

Fantasia laid more tackles per game and more tackles inside 50 per game than Bags.

Walla averaged more tackles per game and slightly less (0.09 difference) inside 50 per game.

Bags was ranked 13th in goal assists per game which was less than Parish. Way less than. Walla or Fantasia.

Kicked less goals per game as well.

So Bags is most definitely the weakest link in our fwd line irrespective of him having a good year.

So is it the old David Myers protect the kids thiNg? Because stats say he is below Fantasia and Walla in virtually every measure as well as not being able to midfield, being 30+ etc.

Im happy for him to play games for us. But let’s not get too excited about him being our no1 pressure fwd etc etc.


#2441

This whole post is confusing.

I am comparing Baguleys role to The roles of Begley and Laverde which you have totally ignored.

I don’t expect Bags to be better than Fantasia and Walla who are amongst the best small forwards in the game.


#2442

I don’t think it’s a confusing post it probably didn’t tackle your question directly and summarised a few others opinions in one.

So directly I go.

I believe you see Bags as a specialist fwd that should play in our best 22.

You believe he is ahead of Begley and Laverde because they are yet to show they can play midfield.

You are likening playing specialist midfielders with a lack of versatility i.e. Parish to a specialist fwds lack of versatility.

You (or others) believe Bags fwd pressure is a primary reason why be should stay in the team.

I believe it is very rare that a side selects a specialist fwd who only can fwd unless they are elite like Betts was. But Bags will be a specialist fwd and probably the last fwd picked if selected.

Walla and Fantasia provide equal or greater fwd pressure.

Specialist mids are not the same as specialist fwds. In fact, blitz has been asking for specialist mids for ages instead of versatile flankers.

If I was picking mid sized players in our best 22 I’d be looking at 2 players max who won’t play midfield. 1 is Saad. Thus @Speedy_Gonzales view that Bags is likely completing with some sort of midfielder or versatile wingers / defenders is also true. Lav and Begs are not his only competition. With Walla, Fantasia, Stringer and Smith all being 100% natural medium / small fwds capable of 40+ goal seasons Baguleys role is probably not even required. I’d be more inclined to go with Laverde or Begs based on age. This is Laverdes make or break year and having him play 2’s while Bags plays 3rd string small fwd seems short sighted. Unless of course he wins the Norm Smith!


#2443

Fair enough.

For mine Laverde offers very little and has had his chances and although I really rate Begley I wouldn’t be upset if he started in the VFL.

Baggers after 19 rounds was in our top ten in the b&f and that’s after coming off an injury interrupted preseason and beginning the year late.

If baggers was showing signs of declining then I would agree as I am like you and prefer youth to older guys but baggers in my opinion has actually earned the right for first crack.

At the end of the day I don’t care as long as we are winning. We have no excuses anymore so the coaches will be under heavy scrutiny this year as well as the players do selection is crucial.

For the record I reckon Rutten would love somebody like baggers.


#2444

The entire club would love Baggers. If you don’t you are subhuman. But… If Fantasia and Laverde were fit all year last year I don’t think Bags plays as big a role last year.

Bags has shown more than Lav. But I’m not writing off Laverde as someone who has had plenty of chances. I think he has another 22 H&A game season before we make that assessment.

Also, last season doesn’t mean ■■■■ anymore. You pick your best 22 players. And 20 or so pick themselves. So those last spots are tight.

Fwiw I’m a big fan of making Begley learn to hunt the footy in the VFL. I’d much prefer him play 12 - 15 games of midfield in the VFL with 7-10 AFL games as a role player than 22 role playing games in the seniors.


#2445

I think you’re massively overrating Laverde. But then I’m probably underrating him, because I still don’t think he’s anywhere near best 22. I wouldn’t want him taking Bags place in the forward line unless he can provide a lot more defensive pressure than he’s shown in the past. He’s been terrible at that, so the forward line would be poor defensively when you throw him next to Daniher, another tall and Stringer.

I agree with this. I think Laverde should be doing the same, although maybe only for 3 or 4 games if he shows something. Even though I don’t think he’s best 22, I’d like to see Laverde get a go for a month when he’s actually fully fit. I don’t think he ever really had been. If he’s fully fit and plays a month or 6 weeks as badly as he did early last season, then put him in the cannon.