The only list management decisions that had Hird's influence was convincing Winderlich to stay on another year, convincing Howlett to stay and getting Cooney across.
Whether or not this was in conjunction with the list manager is unknown.
The Giles trade was a reaction to Paddy leaving and the lack of ruck options that wanted to come to the club.
…getting Goddard, Chapman, keeping Carlisle as long as we did & Bellcho, where he saw Cramers probably had a hand in him leaving, all the guys who came & immediately said how much they wanted to play for Hird (so Laverde, Langford, heaaaaps of others), etc etc etc
But that’s not really achieving anything.
It’s highly likely that those other things were planned (in conjunction with list management group) from a long way out.
But he had a lot more to do with those three than the others. That’s why I pointed those three out specifically.
Of course he would have had a say in every list change since he was head coach. Although I’m not sure how much input he had on the Chapman signing because he wasn’t allowed anywhere near the club during that time. Not that he would have objected though considering we took a far more broken Cooney the year after.
We got Gile for nothing and turned him into Mitch Brown ....not bad!!
Don’t be silly, it was a MISTAKE and a terrible one, that’s what they are saying. Get with the program of Blitz.
Get ■■■■■■ you sarky ■■■■■■■, I said it’s not helpful to pretend mistakes were something other than mistakes - not that they were huge mistakes or catastrophic.
It wasn’t a mistake, it was well worth giving it a go when there wasn’t much else out there, it cost us nothing and ended up being worth it in the long run.
Have to agree. They were worthy choices made with a certain strategy in mind, under ■■■■■■ circumstances. Lots of things prove to be poor decisions with 20/20 hindsight, but they weren’t mistakes at the time.
It proved to not work out, but that was more because of the WADA appeal & injuries.
Cooney will dominate next year if his body is right.
He is an outside player and out contested ball division was non existent for most year including getting smashed in ruck.
In the opening 3 rounds when we had our act together before the WADA stuff flattened everyone he was a matchwinner.
Can’t believe people are getting on Hirds case here over recruits when the club was trying to get it done with limited picks and was hardly a destination club. He is the reason class player like Goddard came to club, he was the glue keeping the playing group together.
And when Cooney is done, Fantasia will be 100% ready to take over.
Fair dinkum!! So called smart supporters seem to forget we had two years of draft penalties and the two years before that the draft was dominated by GC and GWS… On top of that asada … On top of that the worst injury numbers in the history of the game…on top of weapons stupid program…on top of players leaving…on top of keeping the list together…on top of no one wanting to come to the club…I’d say Disco has done an amazing job!!! Zac Merrett is the best player from the 2013 draft, Langford and Laverde could very well be the best from the 2014 draft…parish and Francis won’t be far off the best in this years draft!!! We are in a very good position considering what’s happened to our club!! The List is full of quality players!! No reason for us not to be optimistic !!! Disco deserves a lot of respect that he doesn’t get from our own supporters!!! Don’t forget the Carlisle trade which was brilliantly handled!!!
Fair dinkum!! So called smart supporters seem to forget we had two years of draft penalties and the two years before that the draft was dominated by GC and GWS... On top of that asada ... On top of that the worst injury numbers in the history of the game..on top of weapons stupid program...on top of players leaving...on top of keeping the list together...on top of no one wanting to come to the club......I'd say Disco has done an amazing job!!!! Zac Merrett is the best player from the 2013 draft, Langford and Laverde could very well be the best from the 2014 draft....parish and Francis won't be far off the best in this years draft!!!! We are in a very good position considering what's happened to our club!! The List is full of quality players!! No reason for us not to be optimistic !!! Disco deserves a lot of respect that he doesn't get from our own supporters!!! Don't forget the Carlisle trade which was brilliantly handled!!!!!!
How many jackets do you wear, Coolbreeze?
Innocent question.
Cooney will dominate next year if his body is right.
He is an outside player and our contested ball division was non existent for most year including getting smashed in ruck so ball not getting out to him.
In the opening 3 rounds when we had our act together before the WADA stuff flattened everyone he was a matchwinner.
Can’t believe people are getting on Hirds case here over recruits when the club was trying to get it done with limited picks and was hardly a destination club. He is the reason class player like Goddard came to club, he was the glue keeping the playing group together.
And when Cooney is done, Fantasia will be 100% ready to take over.
Unfortunately what Cooney adds in outside run and polish, he takes away on team defense. You’re robbing Peter to pay Paul if you play him.
The only list management decisions that had Hird's influence was convincing Winderlich to stay on another year, convincing Howlett to stay and getting Cooney across.
Whether or not this was in conjunction with the list manager is unknown.
The Giles trade was a reaction to Paddy leaving and the lack of ruck options that wanted to come to the club.
…getting Goddard, Chapman, keeping Carlisle as long as we did & Bellcho, where he saw Cramers probably had a hand in him leaving, all the guys who came & immediately said how much they wanted to play for Hird (so Laverde, Langford, heaaaaps of others), etc etc etc
But that’s not really achieving anything.
It’s highly likely that those other things were planned (in conjunction with list management group) from a long way out.
But he had a lot more to do with those three than the others. That’s why I pointed those three out specifically.
Of course he would have had a say in every list change since he was head coach. Although I’m not sure how much input he had on the Chapman signing because he wasn’t allowed anywhere near the club during that time. Not that he would have objected though considering we took a far more broken Cooney the year after.
Ironically, having in the past been a big defender I'm far more in the "sack Dodorro" camp than I used to be. Problem is I don't know to what degree he sets the list management goals, versus the head coach/CEO/Board, and he's just responsible for implementing them. But our list management strategy has got it very wrong (partly with hindsight of course).
im interested to hear how our list management has been bad, i think its been quite good, especially the past two drafts
Just focussing on the last three years, and assuming there was nothing to be done to keep Crameri/Ryder/Melksham/Carlisle and that he can't foresee injuries (e.g. Belly's contract for output was overs, but he couldn't predict the injury). This does assume hindsight - but that is what we're paying people for. To make the right call at the right time. As I said, I don't know who set the direction and that may not have been Dodorro. But these are the problems the list has had.
Failures
Failed to get value on the Crameri trade.
Failed to get value on the Ryder trade.
Only took 2 kids in the national draft in both of 2013 and 2014.
Approach of taking older players such as Chapman, Cooney, Gwilt and Giles in 2013 and 2014.
Failing to identify Giles wasn’t good enough.
Extended Kommer’s contract by two years in 2013 (so it ended in 2016).
Gave Pears a two year contract in 2013.
Failed to identify that Dalgiesh, NOB, Kav, Hams, Browne, Stein, Aylett weren’t up to it sooner.
Getting us into a position where with Carlisle’s defection, we literally had only 4 KP players on the main list - which includes Pears.
Juries out
The Edwards/Aylett deal. One of them needs to make it to justify it.
Successes
Convincing Connor McKenna to select Essendon.
Any others from a list management (non-drafting) point of view?
Ironically, having in the past been a big defender I'm far more in the "sack Dodorro" camp than I used to be. Problem is I don't know to what degree he sets the list management goals, versus the head coach/CEO/Board, and he's just responsible for implementing them. But our list management strategy has got it very wrong (partly with hindsight of course).
Depends whether you treat list management as only about playing.
Because these last 3 years have been about a lot more than football. It’s been about managing people. Sometimes the management of the people in the list during these last 3 years was not in the best interest of “football” but was in the best interests of the club and the list.
(If that makes any sense)
Well, I did say I don’t know where the direction came from. If Dodorro was instructed to have higher level of loyalty to the players, including those staying and those traded, than is normal, and to focus on strengthening the team short term, his actions make a lot of sense. Unfortunately only those at the club would know who made the calls, and what those calls were.
How do you get value for trades when the whole ‘players could be banned for 2 years’ is looming over their heads?
2 kids in 2013/14? the club deemed we could have a tilt at a flag, which we probably could have if we didn’t get asada’d as bad as we were.
old players? as above.
giles? didn’t know he was spudding it until he got here.
kommer/pears agreed.
dismissing kids? we had draft sanctions whats the point of turfing players for picks 60-90.
carlisles a flog, was only a matter of time until he high tailed it like ryder.
Im not giving them a free pass we’ve had issue but those issues stem from places outside list management, and more the overall issues of the cub.
Could we have made a tilt at a flag? maybe can’t say got asada.
Did the list management act in accordance with the direction of the coach and board? seems so.
Does the above mean that list management failed? or was the direction given to them a failure? this is the more important question.
Ironically, having in the past been a big defender I'm far more in the "sack Dodorro" camp than I used to be. Problem is I don't know to what degree he sets the list management goals, versus the head coach/CEO/Board, and he's just responsible for implementing them. But our list management strategy has got it very wrong (partly with hindsight of course).
im interested to hear how our list management has been bad, i think its been quite good, especially the past two drafts
Just focussing on the last three years, and assuming there was nothing to be done to keep Crameri/Ryder/Melksham/Carlisle and that he can't foresee injuries (e.g. Belly's contract for output was overs, but he couldn't predict the injury). This does assume hindsight - but that is what we're paying people for. To make the right call at the right time. As I said, I don't know who set the direction and that may not have been Dodorro. But these are the problems the list has had.
Failures
Failed to get value on the Crameri trade.
Failed to get value on the Ryder trade.
Only took 2 kids in the national draft in both of 2013 and 2014.
Approach of taking older players such as Chapman, Cooney, Gwilt and Giles in 2013 and 2014.
Failing to identify Giles wasn’t good enough.
Extended Kommer’s contract by two years in 2013 (so it ended in 2016).
Gave Pears a two year contract in 2013.
Failed to identify that Dalgiesh, NOB, Kav, Hams, Browne, Stein, Aylett weren’t up to it sooner.
Getting us into a position where with Carlisle’s defection, we literally had only 4 KP players on the main list - which includes Pears.
Juries out
The Edwards/Aylett deal. One of them needs to make it to justify it.
Successes
Convincing Connor McKenna to select Essendon.
Any others from a list management (non-drafting) point of view?
Pears was a masterstroke - duly rewarded with another year a month ago!! Keep up.
Ironically, having in the past been a big defender I'm far more in the "sack Dodorro" camp than I used to be. Problem is I don't know to what degree he sets the list management goals, versus the head coach/CEO/Board, and he's just responsible for implementing them. But our list management strategy has got it very wrong (partly with hindsight of course).
im interested to hear how our list management has been bad, i think its been quite good, especially the past two drafts
Just focussing on the last three years, and assuming there was nothing to be done to keep Crameri/Ryder/Melksham/Carlisle and that he can't foresee injuries (e.g. Belly's contract for output was overs, but he couldn't predict the injury). This does assume hindsight - but that is what we're paying people for. To make the right call at the right time. As I said, I don't know who set the direction and that may not have been Dodorro. But these are the problems the list has had.
Failures
Failed to get value on the Crameri trade.
Failed to get value on the Ryder trade.
Only took 2 kids in the national draft in both of 2013 and 2014.
Approach of taking older players such as Chapman, Cooney, Gwilt and Giles in 2013 and 2014.
Failing to identify Giles wasn’t good enough.
Extended Kommer’s contract by two years in 2013 (so it ended in 2016).
Gave Pears a two year contract in 2013.
Failed to identify that Dalgiesh, NOB, Kav, Hams, Browne, Stein, Aylett weren’t up to it sooner.
Getting us into a position where with Carlisle’s defection, we literally had only 4 KP players on the main list - which includes Pears.
Juries out
The Edwards/Aylett deal. One of them needs to make it to justify it.
Successes
Convincing Connor McKenna to select Essendon.
Any others from a list management (non-drafting) point of view?
I think that’s a really harsh and surprisingly blinkered assessment.
Were we in any position (due to external pressures and climate at the time) to get value for Crameri/Ryder?
Taking issue with only taking kids for the last few drafts is a complete hindsight call. What you’re saying is that the club was in no position to take mature age players because the club was nowhere near challenging at the time - I think that would be a very debatable position.
Did we get value for Melksham?
Did we get value for Carlisle?
Hasn’t Giles been picked up by this years Runners Up to fill a gap in their list?
You could argue that the club should have cut more borderline players earlier. But you could also argue that doing so may well have completely broken an already very vulnerable group of people.
Geez. They haven’t got everything right. But I think they made sound decisions a lot of the time with the information that was available at the time.
Ironically, having in the past been a big defender I'm far more in the "sack Dodorro" camp than I used to be. Problem is I don't know to what degree he sets the list management goals, versus the head coach/CEO/Board, and he's just responsible for implementing them. But our list management strategy has got it very wrong (partly with hindsight of course).
im interested to hear how our list management has been bad, i think its been quite good, especially the past two drafts
Just focussing on the last three years, and assuming there was nothing to be done to keep Crameri/Ryder/Melksham/Carlisle and that he can't foresee injuries (e.g. Belly's contract for output was overs, but he couldn't predict the injury). This does assume hindsight - but that is what we're paying people for. To make the right call at the right time. As I said, I don't know who set the direction and that may not have been Dodorro. But these are the problems the list has had.
Failures
Failed to get value on the Crameri trade.
Failed to get value on the Ryder trade.
Only took 2 kids in the national draft in both of 2013 and 2014.
Approach of taking older players such as Chapman, Cooney, Gwilt and Giles in 2013 and 2014.
Failing to identify Giles wasn’t good enough.
Extended Kommer’s contract by two years in 2013 (so it ended in 2016).
Gave Pears a two year contract in 2013.
Failed to identify that Dalgiesh, NOB, Kav, Hams, Browne, Stein, Aylett weren’t up to it sooner.
Getting us into a position where with Carlisle’s defection, we literally had only 4 KP players on the main list - which includes Pears.
Juries out
The Edwards/Aylett deal. One of them needs to make it to justify it.
Successes
Convincing Connor McKenna to select Essendon.
Any others from a list management (non-drafting) point of view?