Adrian Dodoro - Flankers into Mids since 2000 (Part 2)

Let me just clarify how i saw things:

We should have traded :snake: while we had the chance. It was a mistake not to do so. Imagine having Logan McDonald playing if that’s who we ended up picking?

Essendon: I don’t think we made any great effort to trade him. We didn’t want him to leave unless we got way overs (in the clubs view, in fan/hindsight views 2 x 1sts would have been fair and reasonable). Essendon wanted a ready made young player rather than strictly draft picks. They gave a list of players to Sydney who outright rejected the suggestion. So no matter what Sydney then offered, I don’t think Essendon were going to genuinely accept.

Sydney: they were caught out by Papley asking to be traded and they did not want him to leave. FCFC were asked to give up their 1st for him but they didn’t want to. Sydney were hopeful of offering that pick and their future 1st for :snake:. However they were happy to walk away and retain Papley if that’s what happened. Papley has never left and is now very happy up there.

FarkCarlton: they had worked on Papley but did not want to pay much for him. Their 1st pick was demanded but they actually spent most of their time trying to split that pick for later picks. They also used the media to try and leverage Papley’s fathers issues to get Sydney to accept whatever for him. Sydney called their bluff. The uncertainty lies in whether FarkCarlton ever truly offered their pick to Sydney.

Interestingly, FCFC pick was used by thenm to try and steal Tom Green from GWS who had to match the bid. They then traded that pick to Suns who picked Flanders (ended up being pick 11 Flanders & 62 for Suns picks 17 Brodie Kemp & 22 Devon Robertson)

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And how stupid do FCFC look now for not accepting this? Papley was & is worth a first round pick every day of the week

It’s another club, and nice to hear of its own politics and dysfunction, but there are similar parallels and some lessons here that we would be wise to heed.

From the Herald Sun today

When Stephen Silvagni chose to sit in a car outside the MCG rather than take part in his son Jack’s 100th game presentation, the football world was in shock.

This was supposed to be Jack’s moment, he’d had to fight and scratch to get out of the large shadow of his father and reached the milestone in the season opener against Richmond.

Parents watching at home were outraged, commentators were confused with the fact that “SOS” now worked for St Kilda was trotted out as an excuse for his absence in the Carlton rooms.

Some clarity on the situation came via a tweet from Jack’s brother, Ben: “Can confirm he was really tired and wanted to go home.”

Then, as the controversy continued to bubble on social media, Ben responded to another tweet with a statement which properly summed up the situation: “I wouldn’t have thought he owes the club anything either.”

How Carlton and[ one of its favourite sons], a player who was named in the top five greatest at the club of all-time, are no longer on speaking terms is a sad and complex tale.

Silvagni isn’t close to his former teammates – apart from Craig Bradley – after a playing career which spanned 312 games from 1985 to 2001, including premierships in 1987 and 1995.

“The hardest thing in the world would be to reunite the ’95 premiership team members,” one former Blue said. “A lot of that is because of SOS.”

The Silvagni family with Jack after his 100th game – father Stephen was nowhere to be seen.

Carlton’s messy salary cap drama from the back end of the 1990s to early 2000s still lingers for many.

The Blues ended up being fined almost $1 million and stripped of draft picks in 2002 when the scandal was revealed and Silvagni publicly linked to under-the-table payments and the AFL’s investigation.

A lot of relationships were tested in these times and Silvagni, who was inducted into the Australian Football Hall of Fame in 2005 and named full-back in the AFL Team of the Century, moved on elsewhere, taking an offer from his good mate Ross Lyon to be an assistant coach at St Kilda in 2007.

He spent four years at Moorabbin before he landed the much sought after gig as list manager for expansion team Greater Western Sydney where he had better-than-average access to some of the best young talent in the country.

There were plenty of hits and some notable misses there – Kristian Jaksch (No.12, 2012), Cam McCarthy (No.14, 2013), Jarrod Pickett (No.4, 2014), Caleb Marchbank (No.6, 2014) and Paul Ahern (No.7, 2014) – before he was persuaded to return to his roots.

One of Silvagni’s best friends, Mark LoGiudice, took over as Carlton president and he reached out, luring Silvagni back to Princes Park at the end of 2014 as list manager.

It was an exciting time for the club which in June that year celebrated its 150th year and when Silvagni was named alongside John Nicholls, Stephen Kernahan, Bruce Doull and Alex Jesaulenko as the five greatest players to play for Carlton.

There was a potential curveball given Silvagni’s son, Jack, was showing promise as a junior and the Blues took him as a father/son selection in the 2015 national draft.

Initially it wasn’t a drama as Jack found his feet in the AFL, before Ben joined him on the list via the 2018 national draft

It was a great story for the club with three generations of Silvagnis donning the navy blue as Stephen’s father, Sergio, was also a club legend and dual premiership player.

But the gloss went off the fairytale at the start of the 2019 season when Jack was left out of the senior team for the opening month of the season by coach Brendon Bolton.

Silvagni made his disappointment in the decision clear, to the point where he stopped communicating with the coach for a time. As one club insider said: “It was a car crash waiting to happen.”

Things had become increasingly awkward with Silvagni having to step out of list planning meetings and salary cap discussions when the subject of his sons was on the agenda.

Cain Liddle wasn’t a Carlton person. He was a former Geelong player who had been hired by LoGiudice as chief executive at the end of 2017 from Richmond, where he’d been the chief customer officer.

He had commercial savvy which was the reason he was selected over former AFL executive Simon Lethlean for the job. Being an outsider meant he didn’t hold Silvagni in the same reverence as the Carlton faithful.

“SOS doesn’t like to be challenged and doesn’t like to be held accountable,” was how one observer described the tension inside Princes Park.

“When you’re a champion of a club and you have been treated like your s**t doesn’t stink for so long, you think you can behave like that.

“Cain Liddle was the first one to stand up to him.”

The relationship between the pair quickly became toxic, but Silvagni was also barely communicating with some key football staff. He had a direct line to the president and felt he was only answerable to him.

It was an unworkable situation and, by the end of 2019, Liddle took a stand. He decided it was best for Carlton if they parted ways. Silvagni blew up and went straight to LoGiudice.

He expected his good friend to overturn the CEO’s call but instead the president held his ground given there was significant internal support for the controversial move.

The fallout was messy and ended the friendship of LoGiudice and Silvagni who are no longer on speaking terms.

Three-and-a-half years later and the ill will between Silvagni and his old club remains.

Brian Cook, who replaced Liddle as Carlton CEO in 2022, says he is somewhat confused and disappointed by the strained relationship with the club great.

“In a nutshell I haven’t spent a lot of time on it, I’ve asked various people and got various commentary,” Cook said. “If someone said to me to try to explain the relationship, I couldn’t.

“I’m more worried about the future than the past.”

Silvagni’s future is now back at St Kilda, ironically under Lethlean, where [he was appointed list manager in January.]

On Sunday afternoon the two teams clash at Marvel Stadium and everyone will be on SOS watch. Will he be in the St Kilda rooms or in a corporate box supporting Jack with his family?

There is a third option … in the carpark.

Bit of a hatchet-job on Silvagni there and quotes no one really.

SOS has confirmed that they wanted Papley, but Sydney told them it was contingent on them getting Daniher.

"And I guess the lot relied on the Joe Daniher deal to go through, obviously it’s disappointing for Tom, but obviously respectful to Sydney that he’s a contracted player.

“We were told really from the start that if the Daniher deal didn’t happen it was highly unlikely Tom would get to the football club.”

They are all very good at saying what they were doing AFTER the issue to the media. It is done to make it look as though they were doing something, not playing games. Not one of the teams was very serious about that trade happening.

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Yep.
Pretty much.

All teams waiting for the other to blink so that we could force some form of commitment from the others.
If Carlton made the trade first, the trade offer with Sydney would have been renegotiated.

All available public info contradicts your assertion. Care to share any evidence for your view?

Go into realestate and leave our club you hack.

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would be a good start to the weekend to hear we have sacked him

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I agree. The sooner that fraud leaves the club the better. And won’t it be great to see those dudoro lovers cry.

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Stupid Hypothetical idea here …. I like the idea of Cal Twomey to the club in some sort of list management capacity?

Would have him in a recruiting role, but his skill set is different to list management

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That rings a bell at Essendon.

Speaking of accountability, how in the hell did Dodo survive this period:
2009 draft: Melksham, Colyer, Long,
2010 draft: Heppell, Steinberg, Browne, Davis, Ross
2011 draft: Kavanagh, JMerrett, O’Brien
2012 draft: Daniher (f/s), van Unen, Ashby, Gleeson, Kommer, Gregory

That is unquestionably an absolute shitshow.

Imagine taking what was already a very average list and replacing one-third of it with this lot… Melksham and Heppell are a pass, Daniher fell in our laps. The rest, well…

Saga or no saga, this period would have inevitably consigned us to purgatory.

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I agree with you on the outcome. One of the things that fills me with rage about the saga is that I sincerely believe some of that group could have succeeded.

I have no evidence to support that idea, other than empathising with the young men involved.

This isn’t me supporting Dodoro by the way.

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he know where the juju is.

Are we talking about him being sighted at the VFL watching DeKonig along with a few other clubs?

no just about how he needs another 27 to show if hes up for the list management job or not

Listing all the players selected would go some way to explaining it, below are some you left out:

2009: Carlisle, Hardingham, Howlett, Crameri
2010: Hibberd, Jenkins
2011: Baguley
2012: Goddard

Also those years, particularly 2010 and 2011 were heavily affected by GC and GWS entering the competition.

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