Adrian Dodoro - Flankers into Mids since 2000 (Part 1)

[Ants]

suspect Z. Clarke, as much as he gets criticised on Blitz, is probably amongst the league’s best #3 rucks. Its just most #3 rucks are either rubbish or 18-19 year olds.

Agree with this so much. I’d even go further he’s probably 4th if you include Daniher.

3 season ending injuries to rucks can’t be planned for.

Going into a season with 1 established AFL standard ruck is absolutely what we planned & executed. JD should never ever have been a consideration for anything but minimal relief ruck duties even if they had have gotten him fit & Drapper has not played any senior AFL football bar a cameo JLT appearance. Clarke is our second ruck option - thats the reality. Smack is simply not capable of carrying the ruck for full games & gets completely outclassed. He, like JD is a forward who can pinch hit because he has leap. We desperately needed another genuine ruck & Clarke was possibly the best option we could find at that point. What concerns me more about our ruck dept is that at the mid season draft it was clear we were running on fumes. Clarke in his senior appearances had been underwhelming, Drapper was gone for the year, Smack was needed forward full time & Belly had looked sticky taped together since round 1. Why didn’t we draft a ruckman from the state leagues? I don’t watch enough WAFL/SANFL etc to make a specific suggestion but it was looking pretty obvious that we were a Belly knock away from a bare cupboard. Again I see this as yet another example of poor list management - we had a free hit to get another ruck on the list & passed it up.

I know I’m a huge fan of Draper, but I think it was pretty reasonable to consider Draper our #2 after the way he finished last season in the VFL. He was absolutely outstanding in the finals, and he backed that up early this year (although obviously nobody would know that last November!).

As to the midseason draft, potentially there just wasn’t anyone any good. The one we were interested in, that got drafted, well Sydney prefer to play their FB in the ruck than play him. We may have been a Belly knock away from needing a second ruck, but we do have Zlarke. There wasn’t much point drafting someone else who would be rated even worse.

People seem to forget that Zlarke was dominant last year in the WAFL. Yet they expect rucks performing worse this year at the state level to step into an AFL environment and do better. Why?

[Ants]

Every man and his dog on blitz other than you considers Francis a tall.

So either you have a very skewed view of the world, or you’re being disingenuous.

I said I didn’t see Francis as a KPP tall. … very like you to deliberately misquote. From Twomey’s draft guide (below) - seems he has the same ‘skewed’ opinion as me:

"At 191cm he fits in nicely as a third tall defender, but despite his leap and jumping, Francis doesn’t carry the height to play on the bigger key forwards. He matched up against Josh Schache at stages late in the carnival and had trouble containing the 199cm prospect.’ '…at his size he is unlikely to become a true tall backman capable of stopping big, powerful forwards. "

It’s a widely held view that Francis is a better third intercepting tall and not a KPP. You can have a different opinion, that’s ok. But you are naive if you think many respected commentators don’t have the same view as me.

My point wasn’t that you were necessarily wrong. My point is that pretty much everyone on Blitz would disagree with your assessment that Francis isn’t a KPP. I don’t think its a widely held view that he’s a not a KPP player at all. There is often a view that he is best utilised as a third tall. You do know he’s the same height as Hurley? Who is currently being used as the third tall (when Ambrose is fit), yet I doubt anyone would not consider him a KPP. Just that playing third tall is the best fit for him with Ambrose and Hooker shutting down main guys (most weeks).

when you criticise past recruiting decisions for not foreseeing that injuries would occur, you are by default not allowing for trades.

This whole sentence is utter rubbish… ‘by default’. I’ve repeatedly spoken about trading for talls. You are flailing away with lies in an effort to try and construct a misleading argument. Quite pathetic but true to form.

I think we’ll have to disagree on this. We’ve obviously got different views on what you’ve written.

People such as myself wanted Draper in the side instead of Belly, that’s how good he was playing,

Wow, he deserved a spot ahead of Belly coz you and ‘people’ said so. Draper, who has never played a senior game, should have been played ahead of Belly because you wanted him to. That’s an opinion you numpty, not an argument. No statistics or evidence to show he was performing better, just ‘I want him in instead of Belly’. Point to stats for both, put together a rationale…provide something.

Well duh its an opinion. But one informed by watching a lot of the VFL. The point wasn’t that he “deserved” a spot (your word), but that there were quite a few on here who watch the VFL who considered him ready to play AFL. He was arguably the dominant ruck in the VFL, yet you’re saying because he’d played 0 AFL games he doesn’t count for depth.

but because he’s not 23 he’s not depth?

Where did I say this? Oh that’s right, I didn’t say it. I never said he shouldnt be depth or anything remotely like that. He has potential to be a great ruckman. You are just gaslighting… and a weird, easy to debunk attempt at that.

Are, you were complaining about us not having enough 23-28 year old depth, and saying we had virtually none. Which ignored that the dominant ruck in the VFL was on our senior list, he just happened to be younger than 23.

I would also point out that saying you want 2 MORE rucks in the 23-28 age bracket…

Oh jesus, didn’t say that either, did I? You are consistent with your rubbish, I’ll give you that…

FYI, I said…

If we had just one primary, experienced ruck in the 23 to 28yo age bracket (two even better)…

Where did you get the idea I want two MORE rucks on top of our current complement? Is Clarke on a lifetime contract and can’t be let go? I would like a min of one 23-28yo as a member of our CURRENT ruck complement… capisce? Clarke out with a replacement in that bracket traded in next year… another 23-28 brought in when Belly retires. Good long term cover for Draper to develop. And it’s a common age for good rucks in the top teams, (see below), so it’s an entirely reasonable suggestion.

I’ll give you an example, because clearly you find the concept challenging to understand. Melb have Gawn 27, Preuss 24, Bradtke 19 (rookie)… two rucks in the peak age group on their primary list, one on the rookie - THREE in total. If we had picked up Preuss, who went cheap last year, instead of Clarke, we would have Belly 30, Preuss 24, Draper 20 (rookie), a better, more balanced, and reliable age mix of rucks in my opinion, than we currently have. A good mobile can also help cover tall deficiencies elsewhere… so a good investment overall. So, three rucks total… the same composition as Collingwood, Geelong and lots of other clubs… not TWO MORE than everyone else…

You keeping up, or is this Year 1 level maths too much?

So, with this ruck set up, Draper gets more time to develop, (important for a 20 yo tall coming from another sport) and a Preuss-type ruck that becomes good long term cover for Belly and Draper for many years - good result all round. Daniher is injured, and is not ‘pure’ ruck… your term and criteria for this discussion, not mine. You and others can disagree, that’s fine, but lying about what I actually said? Gaslighting. Argue in good faith or rack off.

Um, you quoted your own post where you said “if we had just one primary, experienced ruck in the 23 to 28yo age bracket (two even better)”.

That seems to read pretty clearly that you think it would be even better if we had another two rucks in the 23-28 bracket. Your words. Saying now that you want the second when Belly retires is just restating things. Sorry for reading your words and actually thinking they were what you meant.

Preuss didn’t go cheap, he cost Dom Tyson. Given Clarke would be ahead of Bradtke, and Draper about the same as Preuss, I’m not quite sure what you’re complaining about. Except for Belly not being as good as Gawn (which is obviously a big gap), the rest of our ruck depth/strength was as good if not better than Melbournes. And since when was Preuss mobile? Melbourne is crying out for a tall forward, but he’s played 3 games this year - the last of which was to play ruck.

The idea we should have 5 pure rucks on the list in case our #1 (Belly) and #2 (Draper) go down is stupid.

Yeah, it would be, if I’d said it.

And finally, let’s look at a small selection of teams that have at least one ruck between 23 and 28, i.e. my supposedly farking outlandish suggestion…

Melb - Preuss 24, Gawn 27
Pies - Grundy 25,
Port - Lycett 26
WC - Hickey 28
Crows - Obrien 24
Geelong - Fort 26
Rich - Nankervis 24

I’ve only listed a handful, but what’s clear is lots of good teams think having a 23 to 28 yo ruckman is a good idea. But if I suggest it, well… you become apoplectic, like a toddler.

You did say that, you even quoted yourself, but you’ve then went on to change your tune/clarifty/backtrack (whatever), and say the second additional ruck should come after Belly retires.

Who cares what age they are if they’re good enough?

Because with age comes experience and better decision-making… with too much age comes increased risk of injury and decreased physical performance. There is an age bracket where athletes tend to perform at their best for longer. Man, this is just common knowledge - how naive must you be for this to be news to you?

Now I’m sure you’ll still find some twisted logic, provide misquotations etc. to try argue that all of this is still a horrible idea - can’t wait for that absolute word-salad of a post.

Listen Ants, it’s ok to disagree with my posts. But yours are just full of lies and deliberate misrepresentations. Why you feel the need to lie and get abusive, I don’t know… but I don’t care and I’m now inclined to dish out some abuse myself.

You have the same ability to formulate a coherent argument as that of an 8 year old… But you go your hardest with your comeback…it’ll make as much sense and be based on as much reality and maturity as all your other rubbish posts. Also, please include some more justifications along the lines of ‘I said it so therefore it must be true’ because I find those particularly amusing.

Sure, in a perfect world where everything is set up from scratch, you’d have your key players be younger and in the zone. But in a realistic world where you have to recruit these guys, and manage cap space, trade costs, and development time, having several players in a magical ‘zone’ just for the sake of it is ridiculous. Bellchambers is older, but may have several years left (especially if he becomes the #2 ruck). We have a young potential gun who before doing his ACL was dominating at state level. We have a third, depth ruck who dominated last year at state level. Not having one in the 23-28 year bracket does mean we probably need to replace our 3rd, depth ruck, but that is also the easiest thing to do. Otherwise, having the good young ruck be under 23 is only a good thing. It means we have them there for longer.

BTW, I think someone who spends as much time as you did saying “I didn’t say X”, when you quote yourself saying it, and then criticising others for logic, is a bit silly.

[RTBC]

[is_good_is_don]

The idea we should have 5 pure rucks on the list in case our #1 (Belly) and #2 (Draper) go down is stupid.

Your misquote is NOT the same as what I actually said…

“if we had just one primary, experienced ruck in the 23 to 28yo age bracket ( two even better” My quote.

One talks about the composition of a ruck division, the other (your misquote) talks about total number. Obviously you delist… who would want to hang on to Clarke… that’s farking obvious… it doesn’t need explaining… well maybe to an imbecile.

“I didn’t say X”, when you quote yourself saying it, and then criticising others for logic, is a bit silly.

You deliberately misquote, misrepresent, then claim “back-tracking”? Rack off… seriously, go away… you are deluded. According to you, saying I want to add a certain age bracket of player means we can’t delist and retire others… what a completely moronic assumption to make. I don’t argue with the illiterate… now go away.

[is_good_is_don]

Every man and his dog on blitz other than you considers Francis a tall.

So either you have a very skewed view of the world, or you’re being disingenuous.

My point wasn’t that you were necessarily wrong. My point is that pretty much everyone on Blitz would disagree with your assessment that Francis isn’t a KPP.

Your point was that I had skewed thinking for believing Francis is not a KP tall. I cite an article where Twomey says the same thing and you bang on about what Blitz thinks… but i never commented on what Blitz thinks… just said what i think.

So mate, who’s being disingenuous? I’ve wasted enough time on this.

[IceTemple]

I’ve wasted enough time on this.

Welcome to Blitz!

[Benny40]

Good podcast with Shawry who has joined our recruiting team.

Marc McGowan (ByMarcMcGowan)

[sj_2150]

he was great on the front bar last night as well. would love to see him on again talking about fitzroy days.

[HirdMentality]

Shawry who has joined our recruiting team.

Interesting, expect to see a few Brighton Grammar boys pop up on draft day.

[Benny40]

1 week day + 1/2 a Saturday focused on the school football system.

[aboods]

he was great on the front bar last night as well. would love to see him on again talking about fitzroy days.

If you haven’t listened to that “1993: The greatest season that was” podcast, you should. There is one episode where they talk to Shawry for about an hour about Fitzroy.

Of course, there is also plenty of talk in other episodes about the Bombers

[sj_2150]

that sounds great. ill have to look for it. thanks!

[aboods]

he was great on the front bar last night as well. would love to see him on again talking about fitzroy days.

If you haven’t listened to that “1993: The greatest season that was” podcast, you should. There is one episode where they talk to Shawry for about an hour about Fitzroy.

Of course, there is also plenty of talk in other episodes about the Bombers

The same guys are also in the process of doing a second season, which is about the 99 cricket World Cup. It’s good listening too

[Benny40]

People mentioned an interview with BT and Jackets after the Adelaide match. Was that Fox or 7? Link?

[bdstratton]

Was on channel 7

[Benny40]

Cheers. Watched it on Kayo. Will have to try and find a 7 copy.

[bdstratton]

Was during BT’s usual post game cross over were he hangs in the rooms and annoys everyone

[HirdMentality]

It was a nothing interview just said that Mozz and BZT are two kids who might come play a game or two in the remainder of the season.

[SCarey]

Jackets has been outstanding, especially since 2015

Just wanting to do a quick post regarding Disco’s drafting/Trading in of current players, I think the following shows how well he has done especially well since the sanctions hit in 2013 and even more so since 2015, with Jacket’s finding another level, already finding 22 potential best 22 players from the 2015 draft onward with possibly more to come.

In bold I have put 36 players who I think are players I think are part of our current and future AFL side, with the remaining 10 either older players (4) who would be more than decent depth and younger players (6) who haven’t established themselves as AFL players but still may well do so.

2007 - Myers, Hooker and TBC
2008 - Hurls, Zakka
2009 -
2010 - Hepp
2011 - Bags
2012 - Joe D, Marty
Sanctioned drafts -
2013 - Zerrett, Raz and Ambrose
2014 - Langers, Lav, Smack, Conor and Longy
Post Sanctions
2015 - Parish, Francis, Redman, Brown, Hartley, Walla
2016 - Stewart, McGrath, Ridley, Begley, D Clarke, Draper, Mutch, McNiece, Dea
2017 - Stringer, Smith, Saad, Zerk, Guelfi, Mynott, Houlahan
2018 - Shiel, Mozzie, Ham, Zed, Gown, Jok,
2019 - Snelling

Having lost players affected by the saga, eg. Ryder, Carlisle, Hibberd, Melksham, Crameri, Colyer has been a part of making our current side stronger and younger, picking up draft picks, which somewhat offset draft sanctions.

But even with this, I think Dodoro has hit it out of the park since sanctions, if you look at the drafts prior to 2013, we were lucky to get more than 2 decent players per draft and sometimes less. During sanctions (2013-14), he managed to find 7 players who are arguably currently best 22, and post sanctions the 2015 draft provided 6 players who were in the winning side on Friday night and among the best players. There are also 6 potential best 22 players from the 2016 draft on the list and another 3 who provide depth. 2017 provided the 3 S’s who are in our top 10 players as well as Guelfi and Zerk who looks likely to be Hooker’s replacement and two more who are still developing. 2018 not only provided Shiel but we can’t wait for Mozzie to debut and combine with Walla, Ham is very promising and Zac Clarke has already surprised and hopefully will recover from his illness and have a very solid remainder of the season in the AFL side and Gown and Jok show good potential.

To top it all off, Disco has already got off to a flyer in 2019 with Snelling and hopefully he can spot more players with good upside, given we have already traded away our first round pick and will have our own and GWS’s 2nd rounder to play with (which may be our highest pick).

[andrewb]

merv keane and Jackets