merv keane does the majority of the scouting work with his team.
Yeah but he doesn’t have good nicknames.
merv keane does the majority of the scouting work with his team.Yeah but he doesn’t have good nicknames.
You don’t need a nickname when your real name is “Merv”.
merv keane does the majority of the scouting work with his team.Yeah but he doesn’t have good nicknames.
You don’t need a nickname when your real name is “Merv”.
merv is the nickname of mervyn
Merv Speaking
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Swerv
I remember late 2014 one of the Ess supporters page had made a post asking why he hadn’t been sacked yet, with about 300 comments all agreeing. Even then I couldn’t see it, Dodoro has done a great job and without him our club would be looking a bit more dire. He gets a hard time for being a tough negotiator from other clubs and their supporters but if we had Amateur Ameet at the wheel I rekon half of the posters around here would’ve had a head explosion each
I'm not a religious man but I'm starting to believe in that biblical tale of 'Jackets and his coats of many collars'.
Jackets and the Amazing Multicollared Draftcoat
I thought I’d bring a few posts from the O’Meara thread where they quickly disappear over to here.
On Dodoro’s trading:
You can't & should never try to equalise good performance & thats all Hawthorn does . Its not just those 3 clubs getting trades done anyway, as others have noted we chased Membrey & he went to the Saints, we chased Garlett & he chose Melbourne, we chased Judd he went to Carlton & we chased Cloke, Martin & god knows how many others who stayed. Look at Collingwood, they've secured 2 midfield stars from GSW & while they have ended up paying more than expected for Treloar, he was very good this year & will improve. They identified a need & have filled it. FFS even farkCarlton have traded in an AA defender in Docherty. Trading is something that has been steadily growing but we seem to be lagging behind. For 10 years here I have questioned Dodoro's ability to trade & nothing in that time has given me any reason to believe its improved. Maybe the difficult to deal with tag has some truth, maybe Dodoro does overrate our players, tries to lowball everyone or maybe he simply isn't an effective deal closer. It seems pretty clear to me that the best hope clubs have over the next decade will be to pry talent from GWS, GC & brissy who have been leaking for a few years. IF we don't have the people who can get that done I fear another era of mediocrity.
Of course a drug scandal and bottom rung finishes have nothing to do with it. Considering what we have been through and still the ability to secure someone like Luey is better than what you could hope for.
That would be absolutely fair enough if Dodoro hadn't been at the club for 20 years & even when we were regular finals winners he struggled to get decent trades done. Of course it would be easier had the saga not happened & we were a better team but at some point you have to question cause & effect - can he not trade well because we've been shyte or have we been shyte in some part because of his performance???
I'm actually not that disappointed about O'Meara. I've come to expect we will fail to land a high profile trade because we fail year after year. That's my point, its not a reaction to O'Meara or a hindsight call. I have been saying here for more than 10 years that Dodoro is simply not good enough at getting trades done. Its an evidence based analysis but of course most here can't see past their protective nature or look at it with objectivity. Absolutely some things have worked out for the better but can we really say its been good management? I'm struggling to think of our trade wins. In recent times its been more about trying to get value for talent leaving & before that it was a few recycled older players. McPhee is the only trade I can think of in the last 15 odd years where we got several years of good service. Am I missing someone?
The problem I have with our trading is it seems to me we are reactive in our approach. Clubs that are good at this have players stitched up a long time before we're aware they are even on the table. Don't think for a second we even had a chance with O'Meara. I heard a long time ago Hawthorn had him. I'm sure we chatted to his management - every club would have. But Hawthorn would have had the ear of O'Meara himself. He knew he was going there months ago. Insiders say we offered him a good deal and he's thinking about it. That's a bit sad in itself. The club obviously thought he was considering us - he wasn't. Same with Gunston, Frawley, Mitchell..... Swans with Franklin. Remember when the Cats flew over to speak to Boak. We thought we might be a chance with Judd - that deal was done long before we meet with him. I feel like every year we put our hat in the ring when the player becomes available. Ala Marchbank at the moment. It worked with Luey last year, but it rarely does. We need to be better at playing a smarter, targeted game IMO.
Is Dodoro to blame for us not luring big name trade targets? I would suggest that players would look for the following in potential suitor clubs-
- Premierships - across all sports players chase the ultimate success. Too many examples to think of in the NBA for one, especially for top tier talent who have yet to win a title.
- Dollars - generally 2nd tier star players who are more concerned with cashing in on their window of opportunity - only one team can win each year, but a player can be financially (and statistically) successful without the wins to show for it.
- Relationships/mates - as we’ve seen with Hurley, and probably many other Essendon players throughout the history of the club.
- Location - some like the sun, some like a city… also the size of the market in the prospective city can increase advertising and promotional income for the player.
- Culture - Includes a combination of premierships and relationships, but also includes leadership and management of the club, and unlike the Bombers recent history, a lack of scandals.
- Facilities - Some players from the northern clubs have lamented the poor facilities of their clubs, and good facilities would certainly factor into the decision making of the player.
I’m sure there are some other factors to consider too (family and lifestyle spring to mind and maybe opportunity for a player who hasn’t been able to play because he is behind an incumbent) but presently the Bombers wouldn’t rate as highly as a club such as Hawthorn.
Looking at the last 20 years, we did see an influx of players when Essendon was looking a chance to win it all (Goddard, Chapman, Cooney, Gwilt spring to mind), and had what many considered to be good leadership and culture under Hird, Bomber, etc. Under Knights we were mostly a poorly performing team and not really a destination club, while in our earlier premiership window (99-01) we had a great list, but were hamstrung by salary cap issues and instead of trading players in to be able to keep winning were forced to trade players out.
When considering all of this I find it hard to blame one man for a lack of landing the big fish. Sure, it’s easy to ‘revise’ history to suit one’s own agenda, or make excuses for the clubs perceived failures, and maybe I am doing so, but to understand the ‘problem’ one needs to understand the circumstances around which it occurs.
Lastly, each year only one of the 18 teams wins the premiership. Similarly, if there is one big fish to be caught only one club can catch him. Although there are no prizes for coming second, that Essendon were in the mix for O’Meara and Judd for example, and because we are a big club with great fans, shows that we can still hold out hope for the next one.
My views.
I think it is a little unfair to say we haven’t attracted players. Goddard was a huge win. Prismall was sought by multiple clubs. We got McKenna, Edwards and Leunberger to choose us. Most of those names are not great, but they were all contested and chose us. And frankly, outside of clubs at the very top how many do attract multiple “big fish”? The real problem is that getting to the top does appear to open the flood gates, and Geelong, Sydney and Hawthorn in particular have all benefited from this in recent times. Hawthorn particularly seem to have a long history of this, getting guys like Jacobs, Croad (return), Burgoyne, Gibson and Gunston at times they weren’t seen as top of the heap. But they do seem the outlier.
Frankly, not many big fish go anywhere except the top sides, and so its understandable we’ve only got Goddard.
Where I think some questions can be asked is our ability to identify and target unproven players and bring them to Essendon. Although we do well out of state leagues, our record with AFL clubs is appalling. Someone listed in a thread our record with players coming in, and outside of Goddard and Gwilt the only other success since Wellman/Barnard is McPhee. Cupido, Alvey, Cole, Zantuck, Prismall, Edwards, Aylett, Heffernan (mark 2), and others have all failed, or we’ve got one season out of them (Alan, Camporeale, Murphy, Michael, Chapman). You look at other sides and although there are some terrible at it, there are a number who are pretty good. Again, Sydney and Hawthorn lead the pack, but St Kilda, Port, Collingwood and Bulldogs have got some good younsters very cheap.
We really need to improve in that area.
On Dodoro’s status in the industry:
The man is not respected in the industry .
So he's not respected by at least one senior premiership coach He wouldn't be doing his job if at least 10 people thought that he is an outright ■■■■The world of blitz .. Everyone can have an opinion as long as it's the same as everyone else . No there are more examples but I won't bother . Everyone has a right to belive what suits them ., I Believe, based upon the weight of evidence I have been given that the guy is not respected . U can believe what you want . I didn't come on to pick a fight , I just said what I know.
My views:
I find it hard to believe that Jackets could be not respected in the industry, and that that hasn’t fed into the decision making on keeping him. Worsfold, Thompson, Craig, Harvey, Neeld are all ex-head coaches, and we’ve had plenty of assistant coaches from other clubs. Surely if they all believed he was crap, some of them would say something. Worsfold was at both Adelaide and West Coast, if they thought Dodoro wasn’t up to it would he really want him kept around?
Where I think some questions can be asked is our ability to identify and target unproven players and bring them to Essendon. Although we do well out of state leagues, our record with AFL clubs is appalling. Someone listed in a thread our record with players coming in, and outside of Goddard and Gwilt the only other success since Wellman/Barnard is McPhee. Cupido, Alvey, Cole, Zantuck, Prismall, Edwards, Aylett, Heffernan (mark 2), and others have all failed, or we’ve got one season out of them (Alan, Camporeale, Murphy, Michael, Chapman). You look at other sides and although there are some terrible at it, there are a number who are pretty good. Again, Sydney and Hawthorn lead the pack, but St Kilda, Port, Collingwood and Bulldogs have got some good younsters very cheap.
We really need to improve in that area.
I agree. But I think the names above need to be viewed in context of what we gave up for them. Generally we didn’t give up a lot. This group I’d call wins or draws:
Cupido & Pick 15 for Caracella: Caracella played 2 seasons for the Lions and got delisted. Considering we got pick 15, we probably won out of this.
Alvey & Pick 6 for Jacobs. I’d call this a win, although Alvey & Jacobs didn’t work out for either club.
Allen: Pick 57.
Murphy: Corey McGrath Unpopular view but we probably won out of this, on the basis that Murphy was great in 2004, especially the finals. McGrath played 3 seasons for FC.
Chapman: Pick 84. Win.
McPhee for 55 huge win.
Campo: PSD
Zantuck: PSD.
Heff: PSD
Michael: PSD
These were losses:
Edwards & Aylett for pick 48: Loss (assuming Edwards gets delisted).
Prismall: Pick 39. Loss.
Cole for pick 23: Loss.
I’ve put the PSD picks as wins/draw, on the basis that they all played but we gave up (virtually) nothing for them.
I’d argue that we need to be braver when recruiting these names. Generally we are trying to pick up bargains. We are getting ok results from what we are giving up, but we aren’t giving up enough. Of the 13 above, only 3 times have we given up something of value inside the first 2 rounds.
Where I think some questions can be asked is our ability to identify and target unproven players and bring them to Essendon. Although we do well out of state leagues, our record with AFL clubs is appalling. Someone listed in a thread our record with players coming in, and outside of Goddard and Gwilt the only other success since Wellman/Barnard is McPhee. Cupido, Alvey, Cole, Zantuck, Prismall, Edwards, Aylett, Heffernan (mark 2), and others have all failed, or we’ve got one season out of them (Alan, Camporeale, Murphy, Michael, Chapman). You look at other sides and although there are some terrible at it, there are a number who are pretty good. Again, Sydney and Hawthorn lead the pack, but St Kilda, Port, Collingwood and Bulldogs have got some good younsters very cheap.
We really need to improve in that area.
I agree. But I think the names above need to be viewed in context of what we gave up for them. Generally we didn’t give up a lot. This group I’d call wins or draws:Cupido & Pick 15 for Caracella: Caracella played 2 seasons for the Lions and got delisted. Considering we got pick 15, we probably won out of this.
Alvey & Pick 6 for Jacobs. I’d call this a win, although Alvey & Jacobs didn’t work out for either club.
Allen: Pick 57.
Murphy: Corey McGrath Unpopular view but we probably won out of this, on the basis that Murphy was great in 2004, especially the finals. McGrath played 3 seasons for FC.
Chapman: Pick 84. Win.
McPhee for 55 huge win.
Campo: PSD
Zantuck: PSD.
Heff: PSD
Michael: PSDThese were losses:
Edwards & Aylett for pick 48: Loss (assuming Edwards gets delisted).
Prismall: Pick 39. Loss.
Cole for pick 23: Loss.I’ve put the PSD picks as wins/draw, on the basis that they all played but we gave up (virtually) nothing for them.
I’d argue that we need to be braver when recruiting these names. Generally we are trying to pick up bargains. We are getting ok results from what we are giving up, but we aren’t giving up enough. Of the 13 above, only 3 times have we given up something of value inside the first 2 rounds.
To be clear, I said the issue was bringing in unproven talent. I agree that we probably “won” the Murphy, Alan, Campo, Chapman, Michael trade/draft deals. But we got a single good year out of each. That may be a short term success, its not how to build a list. And its not the weakness in our trading I was trying to flesh out.
Look at a few other teams who got players cheap:
Adelaide: Jacobs, Lynch, Jenkins,
Collingwood: Crisp, Adams, Aish, Eliott,
Port: Ebert, Polec, Neade,
St Kilda: Membrey, Bruce,
WBD: Stevens, Biggs, Crameri
All from the last five trade periods, all cheap, and all played or will play considerable games for their clubs. If you go back a bit further you get more of Hawthorn and Sydney’s steals, as well as Port pick up a few more as well. These clubs have got good players for small prices, either through identifying players that their clubs under-rate or targeting and attaining players before they’re proven when their clubs can’t demand their value back at the trade table. We have consistently failed to bring players into our club via that route.
You also need to learn a little more history. Unless you think EFC could predict Jacob’s and Caracella’s career ending injuries that occurred several years after they left us. That was just bad luck for Hawthorn and Collingwood.
I also think you under-rate the value of a list spot.
I think other clubs have been better at identifying talent on other lists lacking for opportunities, hence getting them cheap. I think Sydney have been very good at this over the years, that trade for McGlynn & Josh Kennedy for picks 39, 46 & 70 comes to mind. They also got Jason Ball, Ted Richards & Mumford for quite a reasonable price.
Paul Roos has had a knack of getting someone identifying these types of players in the past, Ben Kennedy was a recent one who has played much better footy this year than in the past prior to him falling out of favour at Collingwood. Ditto Jeff Garlett.
Although other clubs have been good at identifying these players, I don’t feel this is a criticism of Dodoro. Perhaps he needs more resources to help in this area? Personally, I think he & the executive team have done a great job with the recent challenges in getting the suspended players back & not paying overs for players thus not having flexibility in list management. Like it or not, there’s a perception about our club recently and it’s going to take a while to become a “destination” club. If we continue to draft & develop well, we will become such a club.
I didnt realise Dodoro made as much out of that development as Bomber they both had 25% shares on a development with a Essendonian coterie member. And I have heard people regular talk about Bomber being a millionaire because of it. Think they sold their share for 6 million each.
Jackets must just be doing the recruiting/drafting for the love of it.
I can afford many jackets now.
He doesn’t get the credit he deserves. He has been the glue holding it all together the last 4 years.
Two and a half years on is quite revealing. At the time the above statement was reasonable for our 2015 needs, but now, other than with Zerrett, misses the mark for 2017 onward. The real artistry wasn’t apparent at the time, it is now.
Zerrett, Raz and Ambruise would have to be the absolute best value haul in that whole draft when we couldn’t have needed it more.
It is also interesting to see all the complaints even last year about not attracting or picking players from others sides and then turning them into gems:
I would argue that we aren’t looking too bad here and time will tell us even more:
Essendon: Green, Stewart, Leuey, Dea, Kelly, Brown, Hartley, Bird, McKernan
Other than Bird (a perennial emergency) 8 of these players have played in the firsts this year which tells us that they are at least important depth and up to 7 can lay a claim to consideration for a place in our best 22.
Without this group our list looks thin and too young.
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Can assure you disco is absolutely desperate for us to win a flag - that is what is driving him. Call it an obsession.
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