It will be a love in if all 12 come back.
I think its a reasonable question by the OP. However for better or worse I think we are duty-bound to take all 12 back given the circumstances.
If we were looking at it objectively, there would be a few which the list management team would probably prefer to let go. But I don’t think in the circumstances we can or should make that call.
If Myers goes and Pears chooses to stick with fireman training then every other player will be getting senior game time in 2017 so no issue with them coming back.
Although Howlett IMO will be battling to get too much game time especially with the interchange cap so would be on the block potentially at years end.
But he is also someone who gives his absolute all and great team mate and was greatly affected initially by the suspension so the least we can do is have him back for an extra year.
Are these decisions much different to what would have happened anyway with the 12 still playing?
It’s a bit of a stretch to assume that everyone is going to get generous contracts based on Colyer’s. He’s at the age where guys do get longer contracts, approaching the middle part of their career and fulfilling a key role. Most of the 12 would walk back into the this team right now and with the possible exception of Watson and Stanton should have several years of good footy left.
Convincing the 12 to come back may or may not be a tricky task, but really it’s the form of the rookies who would be creating the most difficult list management decisions right now. Tippa would be a certainty to be upgraded, with McKenna, Long and Hams all pushing their claims.
And for all our amazing young talent were still in the bottom four with one win, a percentage of 63 and huge structural issues. That’s also with a small injury list and some of our strongest contributors being Kelly, Stokes and Dea who won’t be on the list once the season ends.
Having said all that, the 12 all deserve to be able to come back regardless. I’d happily make some list management decisions that may not have been otherwise made if it strengthens the Essendon Football Club as a whole.
I'd love it if they all came back. and I agree the morale factor will be massive. Just there are issues. 12 players coming back, plus we have to recruit 3-4 new players I think, that means 15-16 players we have to drop from list - the older top-ups gives us 4-5 maybe, depending how they go this year, age etc, so that leaves us 10 players, mostly young, to cull. We are in unique situation, with unique challenges re list management, that is really what I am talking about, and they may not be solved by automatically re-signing all 12. And yes, as CJohns said, we will have a very strong list next year, possibly good enough to win it, with a hawthorn-esque mix of age and some youth. Personally I am very confident re 2017, after all we have, in effect, an 18 month preseason.
In the case that 12 come back which i’m hoping, but also think players like pears and stanton are 50/50 (retirement) and myers (perth). but in this case let’s assume that 12 come back.
In:
Suspended: Hooker, Hurley, Watson, Heppell, Colyer, Stanton, Pears, Howlett, Hibbo, Bellcho, Myers, Hocking.
3 draft picks (tippa upgraded)
= total 15 players
Out:
Top ups: Dea, Kelly, Stokes, Simpkin, Jamar, Grima, Grimley, Michael, Crowley, Polkinghorne
Delist/Retire: Ambrose, Gwilt, Kommer, Mckernan, Edwards
= total 15 players
It was hard to delist edwards - maybe we re-rookie him, but like i said - it’d be great to have the 12 back - but i expect that we will have 10-11 return… with pears/stanton/myers the likely ones that leave.
I yearn for the day where players of the calibre of Howlett and Hocking are actually our 23rd and 24th best players and not in our best 15. When that day happens we will be nearly unbeatable but we are miles away from that.
This question was posed by ATE as well but are people aware that we currently have 4 top up and a couple of rookies getting regular games?
12 players coming back, plus we have to recruit 3-4 new players I think, that means 15-16 players we have to drop from list - the older top-ups gives us 4-5 maybeKind of a fallacy: all 10 are instantly dropped. They are not on any ongoing list. Whether we choose to pursue any of them with our 3+ draft/trade picks is an entirely different question.
ridiculous.
of course we should try to get all 12 back.
We have one decent ruckman (who is only one injury away from retirement), why would we not want Belly back?Sure, but Bellie has not been great the last two years, injured, poor form etc. Not saying he should go, but posing question - tough business, footy.
Belly is not out of contract
I yearn for the day where players of the calibre of Howlett and Hocking are actually our 23rd and 24th best players and not in our best 15. When that day happens we will be nearly unbeatable but we are miles away from that.This question was posed by ATE as well but are people aware that we currently have 4 top up and a couple of rookies getting regular games?
I do agree with you on that, but we are not that far off this by the first four rounds. And lets assume we fininsh in the bottom couple and get another low pick or two and guys like Langford, Francis, Laverde, Parish continue to grow and a few others step up as well, then Howlett and maybe Budda wold be struggling to get in the team.
I think it goes toward the soul of the club. Any dispassionate treatment of the 12 would be a betrayal in my opinion.
We are mortgaging FOR our future.
When they’re all back in Red & Black, I want to see a picture of them all together, with middle finger raised at the camera.
Obviously, I don’t know what goes on inside the club. So from a morale point of view, maybe its necessary. And the coaches and list managers have to make the call on that. But ignoring that,
No, the 12 shouldn’t all be brought back at any price. They shouldn’t necessarily all come back at all.
I think its a little, wrong? weird? short-sighted?, something that the 12 are put on this pedestal. In my view, some of them have been awfully lucky in the club’s treatment of the list prior to 2015 due to the Saga, where it seems pretty clear there was an excess of loyalty shown due to what the players had gone through. Only absolutely clear cut duds got delisted up until the cull last year, and we allowed the players desire to have a crack at it to influence the recruiting decision on bringing in older players.
IF there is a view that some of the players are not going to be good enough to get roles in our best 25 in 2017 - why should they come back? I don’t hear any calls to bring Prismall, or Kav, or Steinberg or Hunter back? Why are the 12 who happened to be on the list at the end of 2015 be put on a higher pedestal than others in the group who have been banned? Let alone whether it should be allowed to get players better contracts than they otherwise would. The same logic applies to anyone who is seen as more valuable on the trade table than in the side. If that would have applied at the end of 2015, why shouldn’t it now?
Many of the players being considered as in doubt, the club has been very supportive to as well. It has not been all a one-way street.
As much as we want the feel good story of them all coming back, it should not be at the expense of the team’s success, but only if it increases the chances of it. The club has managed to sabotage itself over the last 4 years, I don’t want to see the EFC do it again. Even if it makes a great story. Keeping Hird around was a great story and correct on many levels - but ultimately caused a huge amount of grief. Same with fighting ASADA in the courts. We convinced Howlett to recommit to us in 2014. Convinced Winders to play an extra year. Took on older players to top up. We’ve continually done what “feels good”, makes a good story, fits the “I want” that some above have mentioned - and continually that’s been a bad decision. Lets stop making those bad decisions.
CJohns, I agree the list is building back up quicker than certainly I expected. It is making me reconsider how long off a window might be. But there were two paragraphs I want to pick up on.
..... 2017 for me will likely have the strongest playing list at Essendon since 2001 I would suggest. We have genuinely found 5 quality players already this year with the likes of Fantasia, Parish, Tippa. Langford & Leuenberger …not to mention we have Francis and Laverde still to come having injuries. No doubt a big weakness of ours in recent years was guys being able to break the lines with genuine speed so we can’t under estimate how big Tippa, Fantasia and Parish growth is for us….especially with overnight news of Colyer remaining and Zach Merrett becoming a star.You need a deep midfield of about 10 players rotating through your team like the Hawks have shown so in 2017 our midfield could be Watson, Zaharakis, Myers, Heppell, Z. Merrett, Parish, Laverde, Colyer, Hocking & Fantasia. Now if that doesn’t get you excited not much will. It allows smart older Midfield players to setup in other parts of the ground to help fill gaps like Goddard, Stanton etc. Down back it gets even better, Hibberd, Hurley, Tippa, Gleeson, Baguley and Hartley. This setup allows what I think the club to do a strategic move to boost the forward setup. Francis is a very good forward as well as back and I know before CAS they were thinking of him as a forward…no doubt marking and reading the play is his strength. So now you can setup a forward line of Daniher, Francis, Hooker, Redman. If anything we are probably 1-2 smart small forwards short but hoping Eades can come on to fill one of those spots. We will have a low draft pick next year so will be interesting if they target a trade or kid.
…
Sorry, but anyone who thinks 2017 will be our strongest year is being extremely optimistic. In 2013 we had Ryder, Fletcher, Carlisle, Crameri, Winderlich, Davey who have all left. Goddard, Stanton and Watson were all late twenties in age and at their peak. Dempsey, Belly and Myers had career best years, yet to be replicated. The team is not going to be in that same space next year, even with JD coming on, Heppell older and the kids you listed.
And those were mostly kids you listed in the first paragraph I quoted. Fantasia, Parish, Zerrett and Tippa are all looking good. But nobody is taking them seriously yet. Nobody is setting out to stop Zerrett and take him out of the game. Nobody has analysed Fantasia, Parish, Gleeson, Hartley, Brown or Tippa’s games and said “here is how we nullify them”. At the moment, we’re chalked down as a win, and minimal work goes into us. That will change, and those players may or may not overcome it. They also haven’t shown the consistency you need to be sure things (well, Zerrett aside). Others like Langford haven’t yet proven anything, let alone guys not yet even in the side or played. Francis could go the same way as most #6 picks - be a dud. Hopefully not, but banking on him now is ridiculous. Same with Redman and others. How many hopes were pinned on Kav, Gumby, Melksham and Pears?
On the second paragraph I quoted, the idea that some of the older players can play in positions that don’t suit them is absolutely uncertain. Howlett has had limited impact outside the centre square. Same with Stanton.
So in summary, I think you’re being way optimistic. 
Ants - even you, can look at how this year is developing and recognise that cold hard logical analysis can often be…wrong.
Dont you mean cold, hard and totally illogical but same as usual position from Ants.
Dont you mean cold, hard and totally illogical but same as usual position from Ants.
ok wheres our flag?
we’ve done the whole back our boys, trust the coaches and pretty much everything essendon does it gospel. Where are our rewards for it? we got a drug saga, a scandal and set back another 5 years.
ants has given the topic some thought and rationalised their position what the ■■■■ have you done? a flippant pissant remark.
Um, let’s not get ahead of ourselves here guys. Seriously. Let’s please not do that.
Seriously, really! Chill the ■■■■ out.
Dont you mean cold, hard and totally illogical but same as usual position from Ants.ok wheres our flag?
we’ve done the whole back our boys, trust the coaches and pretty much everything essendon does it gospel. Where are our rewards for it? we got a drug saga, a scandal and set back another 5 years.
ants has given the topic some thought and rationalised their position what the ■■■■ have you done? a flippant pissant remark.
That’s harsh Barnz.
And I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit. The kids look good, but so did some of them that were drafted by knights and sheeds. Give it time, we definitely need the 12 back, even if it’s just a chop out to some of the younger kids.