Australian Politics, Mark II

Hold on just a moment young beni.

Mistakes are like not knowing you were paying $2000 for Internet connection, perhaps.

Poor policy and dubious actions are the hallmark of a conservative government. Obviously if Hunt gets donations from Pharma, then he is corrupt.

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It works. The problem Wimmera brings up is there but you have to wonder how many young non smokers taking it up wouldā€™ve found themselves taking a durry eventually if they didnā€™t. Lesser of two evils by the length of the Everest Cup straight, and slightly more vested interests. Legalise the weed and everyone can get on a green vape, weā€™ll sort quite a few problems out. I mean, a bit of legit paranoia these days is everybodyā€™s lot regardless.

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Yeah agree Wim. With all that being said and Iā€™m finding the deep dive into this topic as a reformed smoker fascinating. Quitting was the hardest thing I have ever done and have had a few friends recently who where twice as heavy smokers as I was use the ā€œvapeā€ to quit and did it successfully.

Iā€™ve has two deaths in my family from smoking related Iā€™m all for new tech in quitting. But the point you raised is extremely valid.

I guess it needs to be tackled like any other legal drug, age limit restrictions.

With all that being said nicotine is a poison when ingested and itā€™s incredibly addictive but when inhaled by the vape, nicotine is harmless. Iā€™m not saying let all the kids vape Nic, just give it to people who need to quit smoking.

Via percription perhaps?

My overall point is the health minister allowing the most effective method of quitting smoking thatā€™s ever arrived to allow remaining a criminal offence is the definition of idiocy. It could save thousands of lives a year.

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I agree with that.
And Iā€™ve long been in favour of cigarettes being only available at chemists.

Why not just ban tailor mades ? If you must smoke tobacco, smoke decent hand rolled tobacco, with no additives like saltpetre. White Ox is good.

Do you have any wider info on the effectiveness of vaping to quite smoking with & without nicotine? Iā€™ve spoken to a few people who have quit using it but I wasnā€™t aware we had different restrictions here & assumed its still contained nicotine. Iā€™ve been trying to encourage a few family to quit but wasnā€™t sure if vaping was more successful.

Itā€™s flavoured steam in Oz. Can order from the US to get the stuff with nicotine. Small businesses that attempted to sell the real thing here got destroyed.

I havenā€™t looked at a specific study to that effect Nic Vs no Nic, but itā€™s an easy to extrapolate.

This is a study where people who went to Vaping at 6 to 12 month intervals

image

A 40% quit rate after 12 months is extremely impressive, the take away is If you can convince your family member to straight vape, it significantly increases their chances of quitting long term.

More here on 3 case group study

More here vs Nicotine replacement therapy.

The main takeaway when you start to look at all the studies is being able to stick to straight vape instead of combination is a lot more effective in long term quitting, and having nicotine in the liquid helps manage the cravings from conventional cigarettes. Therefore making it easier to straight vape.

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And New Zealand now, I just ordered some for my father in law

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I was getting nic juice from the US but last time I ordered was told they could no longer ship internationally due to some new law. I was referred to their NZ supplier. Now I just get the pure nic from NZ, base liquid and flavours locally, and mix my own (drug lab indeed).
I used it to give up cigs and it worked, but I havenā€™t quit nicotine and donā€™t plan to quit vaping at present. Apart from the positive health effects, which do require more research, cost is about 5% that of cigs, and the vape doesnā€™t leave behind the awful stench.
Any objective assessment seems to support it, but that doesnā€™t mean much in this country.

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During the course of today, I will try to find out about that. I have heard of the saltpetre thing, of course, for the last fifty years or so and over that time I have concluded it is not true. However, I do believe there are additives but they are in all forms of tobacco, not just the tailories. There is definitely a difference between papers though - some have something added to keep them burning, but not all. Dauwe Egberts are a multi national that dabbles in many products, particularly products that have an addictive component or if not addictive then compulsive like coffee. I do not see them as altruistic to the point that they are any ā€˜cleanerā€™ than any other tobacco manufacturer. The only way to ensure a ā€˜cleanā€™ product is to grow it yourself, which sounds harder than it is. My mother described a method of curing tobacco which is what she did during the war when one could not readily get any. These days I believe there is absolutely nothing that cannot be found out on the net like explicit instructions on making all kinds of weapons and I have no doubt, curing tobacco. Anyway, just to stir the pot a bit, I believe that no substances that people can abuse, should be banned. It is the consequences of abuse that need to be addressed and the reasons why substance abuse happens in the first place. I think most thinking people would agree that banning something is a sure way of ensuring itā€™s continued use.

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Itā€™s certainly a sure way of ensuring thereā€™s a black market.
But then so is ridiculous pricing, and weā€™re already doing that.

There is a kind of ban by stealth happening.

I can sort of understand the logic, but I doubt many pharmacists would want to actually stock and sell ciggies from their store.

I understand the pharmacists concern and counter with a ā€˜ā– ā– ā– ā–  them.ā€™
Itā€™s a drug.
Why pretend itā€™s not?

You shouldnā€™t be able to buy it at the 7-11.

Edit: Iā€™m sure theyā€™re not rapt with people taking a sip at the front counter either, but they do it.

I get it, totally agree itā€™s a drug and eventually Iā€™d like to see if farked off altogether. But I think forcing pharmacists to sell a drug that has absolutely no health benefits is kinda against what they are all about (get healthy, fix your aches, pains ailments, jelly beans, etc).

Iā€™ve been having this argument, and saying pretty much the same thing, for a decade.
All it should have been about it is getting Australia off tobacco in the kindest way possible.

But we have jerk politicians who couldnā€™t give a rats about that, so we have the whole ā€˜increase the price until itā€™s no longer feasible to smoke and advertise that all smokers are ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā€™ policy.

I honestly think we could have been tobacco free by now if weā€™d had the guts to be progressive about it a decade ago.
Grow our own tobacco, apparently Tasmania has a very good climate for that.
One brand of cigarettes, the government one.
Plain packaging.
Ban all imports.
Available only through chemists, and you need a script from a GP to say youā€™re an existing smoker.

But thatā€™s just my opinion.

Alcohol at pharmacies too?
Itā€™s a drug as well.
And a more damaging one to society than cigarettes.

Ehhhhhhhā€¦
Do you really want me to debate that with you?
Because I feel like youā€™re just being anti.
But I can if youā€™d like.

Settle petal. I merely asked a question.
Let me rephrase it and ask, if drugs are to be sold by pharmacies, where do you draw the line?
And how do you judge what makes something pharmacy only?

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Completely and utterly settled.
As I alluded to earlier, I think the line is already drawn with methadone.
And as to what makes something pharmacy only, I donā€™t know what you mean.
Itā€™s whatever we say it is.