I don't think I've seen it elsewhere, but what are your thoughts on game style in recent weeks versus how they've trained in the pre-season? I just can't imagine the coaches want them chipping sideways and backwards as much as they have the last couple of weeks.
In very, very simple terms the game style has three parts:
1) Keeping possession.
2) Moving the ball forward quickly whenever possible, being patient when we have to.
3) Not bombing long into the forward line unless when have a good one on one, two on two or favourable terms.
Against St. Kilda we did part one (often by going backwards or sideways) but not part two or three.
What you see at training is the ball being moved quickly forward from leads at 45 degrees from the kicker and getting the ball back into the corridor when possible.
Just watched the entire press conference.
This is the 'Bomber' coach I wanted this year.
No bullshit and happy to express his annoyance/agitation at the press.
Forget cracking jokes at the press conferences and trying to be the media darling... get back to doing what you do best.
Yes, we need to toughen up and realize we are a middle ranking team with a heap of improvement needed before we challenge the top.
There are plenty of players with talent, but that is not enough. Need to be hard at it and produce a consistent quality. Not rubbish like Saturday night, regardless of the difficulties.
Karma Bomber and I attended Bomber's press conference this morning and I thought Bomber looked tired and lacking his usual bounce. Most of the questions were standard but two points were of interest.
Firstly he said that Carlisle was not working hard enough - no equivocation here but a bald statement.
Secondly Dempsey trained with the main group today and addressed the players before training - mea culpa, Humble Pie, its good to be back etc. etc. I'm pleased to see him back.
The season has reached an interesting stage where Bomber's long term strategies are clashing with the immediate tactical imperatives necessary on match day to win games.
Here are four of them from the pre-season.
1) We need to address the tendency to fall away at the end of the season. Thus we have seen relatively poor pre-season match form as the team went through a solid twelve week block of training that will presumably (hopefully) benefit the team in the latter part of the season. It could be argued that the indifferent showing of the past two games is part of this overall strategy - slower start, stronger finish.
2) Joe Daniher will be played in every possible game and will be a better player after thirty games. We must expect there will be some games where he doesn't play well but its something we must do for the long term strategy of his development as the key to the forward line. Daniher has kicked very few goals and not taken a lot of marks often going to ground when he misses them. Last week he was eventually played off the bench. Thus Bomber faces the tough decision of balancing an out of form but undroppable Joe, an out of form Carlisle and the return of a third big man in Bellchambers.
3) Daniher and Carlisle will constitute a successful forward line and need games together to develop an understanding and a forward system. (This has been hampered by Carlisle having to play in the ruck for two weeks.) So far they have produced little in terms of goals and marks (although other players have managed to put the score on the board in two games) and tactically you would be tempted to change this but strategically you can't.
4) Hurley back and Carlisle forward. So far Hurley is a marginally better player in the backline - at times good but so far not approaching the almost All Australian standard that Carlisle had set. Carlisle, according to the coach is on the cusp of being dropped and has been a clear loser in the swap so far. Again the long term strategy is for this to continue but it is leading to a degree of inflexibility tactically as we saw against St Kilda when many would have called for a swap.
The way in which Bomber handles the conflict between his long term strategies and the tactics of match day will be fascinating to watch and its resolution will determine whether his plan is that of a genius or stems from feet of clay.
Like the post.....my long term feel is that by the end of this year Bomber will have had a profound effect on this group of players. I think our list is very close to their in talent terms but seriously lack the mental side of the game that allows performance to be maintained under all circumstances, not always to win but just consistent. These guys need some honest home truths and are far too happy to make excuses for poor performances......Bomber has already started this and it will benefit long term......short term is lots more pain but seriously we weren't ever going to win a flag with that forward line against opposition like Geelong and Hawthorn.
We all rate Daniher but how is he, nor anyone undroppable ?
That's one of the biggest problems with this club, we have way to many players who are undroppable, for a middle of the table club that's just unacceptable.
Daniher could be anything but he shouldn't get a free ride til the 50 game mark where supposedly players somehow click, he like everyone should be made to earn their ******* spot and actually cheerish it.
Instead we have players continually coasting along cos they know their spot is safe, no matter what.
Too true........start dropping them until they deliver every week, losses like the st kilda one should never happen to a side with top 4 aspirations
He's doing a ripping job. He also knows how to use the media as a tool to motivate and manipulate, which is exceedingly important in the current climate.
I don't think I've seen it elsewhere, but what are your thoughts on game style in recent weeks versus how they've trained in the pre-season? I just can't imagine the coaches want them chipping sideways and backwards as much as they have the last couple of weeks.
In very, very simple terms the game style has three parts:
1) Keeping possession.
2) Moving the ball forward quickly whenever possible, being patient when we have to.
3) Not bombing long into the forward line unless when have a good one on one, two on two or favourable terms.
Against St. Kilda we did part one (often by going backwards or sideways) but not part two or three.
What you see at training is the ball being moved quickly forward from leads at 45 degrees from the kicker and getting the ball back into the corridor when possible.
Interesting watching the hawks Geelong game......they just keep taking risks no matter what....kick to the corridor, take a difficult option.....kinda like we did against the hawks......difference is they always take the risk and never go into their shell.....if it gets turned over they just keep trying.......much as I am no fan of either side. They make watching football enjoyable again. That is what we are trying to achieve and I'd rather see us back ourselves and ■■■■ it up than the crap we dished up against st kilda.
Howlett, Carlisle and Zaharakis are just coasting along this season. Time for these guys to get serious, these blokes have shown glimpses of form but are treading water. If we are going to go places, we need these blokes doing a lot more damage than they are at the moment. Same goes for Ryder, exceptional talent, but just goes missing for too long in games. All these blokes have been in the game long enough, are strong enough and should be physically imposing themselves. Go in hard or get back to the VFL!
I don't think I've seen it elsewhere, but what are your thoughts on game style in recent weeks versus how they've trained in the pre-season? I just can't imagine the coaches want them chipping sideways and backwards as much as they have the last couple of weeks.
In very, very simple terms the game style has three parts:
1) Keeping possession.
2) Moving the ball forward quickly whenever possible, being patient when we have to.
3) Not bombing long into the forward line unless when have a good one on one, two on two or favourable terms.
Against St. Kilda we did part one (often by going backwards or sideways) but not part two or three.
What you see at training is the ball being moved quickly forward from leads at 45 degrees from the kicker and getting the ball back into the corridor when possible.
Interesting watching the hawks Geelong game......they just keep taking risks no matter what....kick to the corridor, take a difficult option.....kinda like we did against the hawks......difference is they always take the risk and never go into their shell.....if it gets turned over they just keep trying.......much as I am no fan of either side. They make watching football enjoyable again. That is what we are trying to achieve and I'd rather see us back ourselves and ■■■■ it up than the crap we dished up against st kilda.
Funny you should say that cause I've always thought that the game style we've employed is in a way very similar to that of Hawthorn's.
Maintain possession through short kicks till you find an opening.
The only difference is that we take so ■■■■■■ long to advance the footy that the entire opposition defence has set up already. Hawthorn on the other hand have much better ball users so it doesn't take them a hundred kicks to move the ball from their back half into forward 50.
To me it sounds as though Thompson has identified the problems but not the solutions, and that's a worry.
The dogmatic statement that Daniher and Carlisle will work as a forward combination is unconvincing. Like everyone else I've seen Carlisle work as a backman who's been swung forward in the second half of the game and kicked a few goals. I have not seen him work as a starting forward in any game at all. Nor have I seen anything to indicate that he ever will. He seems completely at sea. A key forward is supposed to present constantly, create opportunities not just for himself but for those around him. Carlisle doesn't do that. Most of the time when the ball comes into the forward line Carlisle is invisible, the complete opposite of Riewoldt or even Crameri.
The one thing Thompson didn't talk about is Hooker as a forward, even though in his Bomber TV video after the game he mentioned it as one of the very few bright spots in Saturday's miserable show.
Carlisle wasn’t a gun backman from day one. Back when he had Walker climbing on his head in highlight reels, he didn’t have too much else to redeem him. He’ll come good down forward, he just needs to strap in and work hard at it. He’s got talent in spades. Bomber can see it, he’s gonna persist, let’s give it a little time.
I can't remember, and the thread is gone so I can't check, but was Shelton 10 one of the Myers baggers? I bet he was.
After 2 games as a starting key forward, he has ruled a line through Carlisle. Unbelievable.
Hasn't ruled a line through him, has pointed out that he is just as lost up forward as Hurley seemed to be.
And who knows he could turn out to be a great forward, or he could turn into a mediocre one, at this stage though carlisle is struggling up forward, for whatever reasons.
I was one who said Hurley should be played forward to begin with, then thought the swap was warranted last year, now i'm leaning towards both should play back.
They seem more comfortable playing down back, by their actions and words, so why do we have to try and force one of them to be a forward ?
Personally i'd rather have Daniher and ambrose up there, they seem to want to be forwards instead of being asked to play there cos we haven't got any other perceived options.
Just on the Carlisle work rate issue, I have no doubt it's true, as when he makes searching leads he usually gets the footy, but I have not seen a game live yet so I can't really confirm if it's a lack of leading from him or just that he gets overlooked and then stops leading.
I think as much as I am paines me to say it, the work rate of Ambrose has probably been a glaring hole the last two weeks. Its hard to think a 2 game player can creat that hole already. It's something Kommer did last year and if we can get those two back in the side, just to increase the work rate of the forward line, we might see some improvement. Winderlich also has the same effect but with more class, his work rate alone is astonishing.
I think Ambrose is structurally important to us as was Crameri in that you had 3rd forward. They have the ability to create mismatches and make their defenders accountable. This was exacerbated with Winderlich and Chapman also missing weeks so not having all 3 on the ground hurts. Hopefully in a couple of weeks time they will all be on the ground.
Glad to see that Bomber is sticking with his strategy to get games into Joe asap. He isn't going to develop anywhere near as quickly in the VFL. Steep learning curve means short term pain for long term gain. l can live with that.