Oh boy. How far from having "Burke st truthers" are we?
You clearly don’t have enough alt right wing nutbags on your facebook. They have been around since day 2, the theory is that the media is not talking about the fact he is a muslim to justify the money that was spent on the Australia Day billboards with the two young muslim girls on it.
Couldn’t make this stuff up.
Actually none of those offences are particularly serious in the overall scheme of things.Police opposed bail. It’s not their fault.
It’s also not the Bail Justice’s fault, they are simply working within the confines of a broken system where capacity is at breaking point.
Look. If the community has come to a view that we want all potentially violent offenders remanded in all circumstances then that’s fine (and a legitimate view to hold). However if we as a community come to that decision, then we literally need to build 4-5 more prisons.
Well good, “build them” you say? Ok fine. However either your taxes will go up quite a bit to pay for it, or the government will have to borrow significantly to fund it. Either of which the public/opposition/media will complain about incessantly.
And there’s also the matter of where to put these four prisons. Do you want one in your suburb? Yeah, didn’t think so.
This is why the system is broken and will likely remain broken.
Are you f**king kidding me?
Driving down the wrong side of St Kilda Rd whilst in a police pursuit is not a serious offence?No
These bail justices deal with violent offenders every day. They are the ones who get remanded. There’s very little room left in the system for the others.
So yeah, it’s serious in your black and white assessment, but comparatively, not so much.
You want to put him in jail, fine. Who do you let out? The guy who just beat his wife? The armed robber? The drug dealer? The murderer?
If you don’t think driving down the wrong side of one the main roads in the city of Melbourne is not a serious offence, then I can’t help you. That is absolute political correctness/stupidity at its worst.
As for jails - there is always room for these types of offenders. The fact they were able to move the juvenile offenders in a pinch would lay evidence to that I would have thought.
By the way, a new hail is being built.
On a scale of pinched a bag of lollies from the supermarket to committing a terrorist act and blowing up a building where you rate driving on the wrong side of the road?
I would have thought its an 8/10 in terms of seriousness on your scale above.
He drove down the wrong side of a very busy city whilst in a police pursuit. This wasn’t a parking ticket. I’m not quite sure why people are trying to dismiss it as trivial.
no one is dismissing it as trivial, that is your assumption of what they are saying and it is wrong.
They are saying that when a bail justice or magistrate sees two offenders and one is physical assault and one is driving down the wrong side of the road, then the judgment will be to lock up the assault and grant bail to the driving offense. Right or wrong, that is what will happen most times.
Driving on the wrong side of the road whilst in a police pursuit is far more serious than a physical assault. I can’t believe that people are playing it down to that level. Its on a par with attempted murder in my book.
Do people understand what could have happened in that situation?
^ he also seems to view driving on the wrong side of the road (in isolation) as being far more sinister than it actually isActually none of those offences are particularly serious in the overall scheme of things.Police opposed bail. It’s not their fault.
It’s also not the Bail Justice’s fault, they are simply working within the confines of a broken system where capacity is at breaking point.
Look. If the community has come to a view that we want all potentially violent offenders remanded in all circumstances then that’s fine (and a legitimate view to hold). However if we as a community come to that decision, then we literally need to build 4-5 more prisons.
Well good, “build them” you say? Ok fine. However either your taxes will go up quite a bit to pay for it, or the government will have to borrow significantly to fund it. Either of which the public/opposition/media will complain about incessantly.
And there’s also the matter of where to put these four prisons. Do you want one in your suburb? Yeah, didn’t think so.
This is why the system is broken and will likely remain broken.
Are you f**king kidding me?
Driving down the wrong side of St Kilda Rd whilst in a police pursuit is not a serious offence?No
These bail justices deal with violent offenders every day. They are the ones who get remanded. There’s very little room left in the system for the others.
So yeah, it’s serious in your black and white assessment, but comparatively, not so much.
You want to put him in jail, fine. Who do you let out? The guy who just beat his wife? The armed robber? The drug dealer? The murderer?
If you don’t think driving down the wrong side of one the main roads in the city of Melbourne is not a serious offence, then I can’t help you. That is absolute political correctness/stupidity at its worst.
As for jails - there is always room for these types of offenders. The fact they were able to move the juvenile offenders in a pinch would lay evidence to that I would have thought.
By the way, a new hail is being built.
On a scale of pinched a bag of lollies from the supermarket to committing a terrorist act and blowing up a building where you rate driving on the wrong side of the road?
I would have thought its an 8/10 in terms of seriousness on your scale above.
He drove down the wrong side of a very busy city whilst in a police pursuit. This wasn’t a parking ticket. I’m not quite sure why people are trying to dismiss it as trivial.
Surely you jest?
8/10 would put driving on the wrong side of the road on par with attempted murder or plotting to commit a terrorist act
Correct. That is what I would rate it at.
Lets not forget the level here. It was a major thoroughfare, he was driving whilst sspended and was being pursued by police. This wasn’t some little old lady who mistakenly went the wrong way down a little used one way street in suburbia.
How many jails should we build?
How many jails should we build?
As many as currently needed plus 20%.
^ he also seems to view driving on the wrong side of the road (in isolation) as being far more sinister than it actually isActually none of those offences are particularly serious in the overall scheme of things.Police opposed bail. It’s not their fault.
It’s also not the Bail Justice’s fault, they are simply working within the confines of a broken system where capacity is at breaking point.
Look. If the community has come to a view that we want all potentially violent offenders remanded in all circumstances then that’s fine (and a legitimate view to hold). However if we as a community come to that decision, then we literally need to build 4-5 more prisons.
Well good, “build them” you say? Ok fine. However either your taxes will go up quite a bit to pay for it, or the government will have to borrow significantly to fund it. Either of which the public/opposition/media will complain about incessantly.
And there’s also the matter of where to put these four prisons. Do you want one in your suburb? Yeah, didn’t think so.
This is why the system is broken and will likely remain broken.
Are you f**king kidding me?
Driving down the wrong side of St Kilda Rd whilst in a police pursuit is not a serious offence?No
These bail justices deal with violent offenders every day. They are the ones who get remanded. There’s very little room left in the system for the others.
So yeah, it’s serious in your black and white assessment, but comparatively, not so much.
You want to put him in jail, fine. Who do you let out? The guy who just beat his wife? The armed robber? The drug dealer? The murderer?
If you don’t think driving down the wrong side of one the main roads in the city of Melbourne is not a serious offence, then I can’t help you. That is absolute political correctness/stupidity at its worst.
As for jails - there is always room for these types of offenders. The fact they were able to move the juvenile offenders in a pinch would lay evidence to that I would have thought.
By the way, a new hail is being built.
On a scale of pinched a bag of lollies from the supermarket to committing a terrorist act and blowing up a building where you rate driving on the wrong side of the road?
I would have thought its an 8/10 in terms of seriousness on your scale above.
He drove down the wrong side of a very busy city whilst in a police pursuit. This wasn’t a parking ticket. I’m not quite sure why people are trying to dismiss it as trivial.
Surely you jest?
8/10 would put driving on the wrong side of the road on par with attempted murder or plotting to commit a terrorist actCorrect. That is what I would rate it at.
Lets not forget the level here. It was a major thoroughfare, he was driving whilst sspended and was being pursued by police. This wasn’t some little old lady who mistakenly went the wrong way down a little used one way street in suburbia.
And you (thankfully) don’t make the laws/penalties so it (seemingly) isn’t considered on that level, so your whole argument is mute
Moot!
It’s only mute if you mute him.
But then you wouldn’t know if his point is moot or not.
^ he also seems to view driving on the wrong side of the road (in isolation) as being far more sinister than it actually isActually none of those offences are particularly serious in the overall scheme of things.Police opposed bail. It’s not their fault.
It’s also not the Bail Justice’s fault, they are simply working within the confines of a broken system where capacity is at breaking point.
Look. If the community has come to a view that we want all potentially violent offenders remanded in all circumstances then that’s fine (and a legitimate view to hold). However if we as a community come to that decision, then we literally need to build 4-5 more prisons.
Well good, “build them” you say? Ok fine. However either your taxes will go up quite a bit to pay for it, or the government will have to borrow significantly to fund it. Either of which the public/opposition/media will complain about incessantly.
And there’s also the matter of where to put these four prisons. Do you want one in your suburb? Yeah, didn’t think so.
This is why the system is broken and will likely remain broken.
Are you f**king kidding me?
Driving down the wrong side of St Kilda Rd whilst in a police pursuit is not a serious offence?No
These bail justices deal with violent offenders every day. They are the ones who get remanded. There’s very little room left in the system for the others.
So yeah, it’s serious in your black and white assessment, but comparatively, not so much.
You want to put him in jail, fine. Who do you let out? The guy who just beat his wife? The armed robber? The drug dealer? The murderer?
If you don’t think driving down the wrong side of one the main roads in the city of Melbourne is not a serious offence, then I can’t help you. That is absolute political correctness/stupidity at its worst.
As for jails - there is always room for these types of offenders. The fact they were able to move the juvenile offenders in a pinch would lay evidence to that I would have thought.
By the way, a new hail is being built.
On a scale of pinched a bag of lollies from the supermarket to committing a terrorist act and blowing up a building where you rate driving on the wrong side of the road?
I would have thought its an 8/10 in terms of seriousness on your scale above.
He drove down the wrong side of a very busy city whilst in a police pursuit. This wasn’t a parking ticket. I’m not quite sure why people are trying to dismiss it as trivial.
Surely you jest?
8/10 would put driving on the wrong side of the road on par with attempted murder or plotting to commit a terrorist actCorrect. That is what I would rate it at.
Lets not forget the level here. It was a major thoroughfare, he was driving whilst sspended and was being pursued by police. This wasn’t some little old lady who mistakenly went the wrong way down a little used one way street in suburbia.
And you (thankfully) don’t make the laws/penalties so it (seemingly) isn’t considered on that level, so your whole argument is mute
Unbelievable.
It's only mute if you mute him. But then you wouldn't know if his point is moot or not.He could use sign language.
Oh boy. How far from having "Burke st truthers" are we?You clearly don’t have enough alt right wing nutbags on your facebook. They have been around since day 2, the theory is that the media is not talking about the fact he is a muslim to justify the money that was spent on the Australia Day billboards with the two young muslim girls on it.
Couldn’t make this stuff up.
AFP cover up as well.
How many jails should we build?As many as currently needed plus 20%.
The govt is building more and expanding others as we speak. Bed pressures are full on in prisons at the moment.
Oh boy. How far from having "Burke st truthers" are we?You clearly don’t have enough alt right wing nutbags on your facebook. They have been around since day 2, the theory is that the media is not talking about the fact he is a muslim to justify the money that was spent on the Australia Day billboards with the two young muslim girls on it.
Couldn’t make this stuff up.
Dont forget the BLUEMAN !!
How many jails should we build?As many as currently needed plus 20%.
The govt is building more and expanding others as we speak. Bed pressures are full on in prisons at the moment.
Or alternatively we could aim for rehabilitation rather than revenge and end up like the Dutch, who are having to close prisons hand over fist because there just isn’t enough people to fill them. In fact they are now housing prisoners from other countries so they at least have the numbers to keep a few facilities open.
Mind you, the chances of a national mentality that allows off shore gulags would never go for something as intelligent as that.
How many jails should we build?As many as currently needed plus 20%.
The govt is building more and expanding others as we speak. Bed pressures are full on in prisons at the moment.
Or alternatively we could aim for rehabilitation rather than revenge and end up like the Dutch, who are having to close prisons hand over fist because there just isn’t enough people to fill them. In fact they are now housing prisoners from other countries so they at least have the numbers to keep a few facilities open.
Mind you, the chances of a national mentality that allows off shore gulags would never go for something as intelligent as that.
In someway, I think it’s a bit beyond our control unfortunately. Prisons provide so many rehabilitation resources, activities and opportunities to learn. Some prisons in Victoria are basically farms, they don’t even have a fence. The problem is the situation these people come from on the outside. The parents were/are drug addicts, they have no family, and the only people they know are other ex-convicts. It doesn’t matter what the government does, the only way they can make a true difference is by not insitutionalising those who are just your typical drug addicts, who don’t physically harm others nor traffick serious quantities. Some people commit crimes to intentionally return to prison, because it’s better than the life they have outside. I think this actually demonstrates that prisons are not the “tough” environments that everybody thinks they are.
I suppose here one could make an argument for services outside, which do also exist, however some of these people have been raised this way and know no different. You can plant the idea of a lifestyle change, but they are the ones who have to act upon it. I think the prison population is going nuts due to usual population rises, and then of course Ice…
How many jails should we build?As many as currently needed plus 20%.
The govt is building more and expanding others as we speak. Bed pressures are full on in prisons at the moment.
Or alternatively we could aim for rehabilitation rather than revenge and end up like the Dutch, who are having to close prisons hand over fist because there just isn’t enough people to fill them. In fact they are now housing prisoners from other countries so they at least have the numbers to keep a few facilities open.
Mind you, the chances of a national mentality that allows off shore gulags would never go for something as intelligent as that.
In someway, I think it’s a bit beyond our control unfortunately. Prisons provide so many rehabilitation resources, activities and opportunities to learn. Some prisons in Victoria are basically farms, they don’t even have a fence. The problem is the situation these people come from on the outside. The parents were/are drug addicts, they have no family, and the only people they know are other ex-convicts. It doesn’t matter what the government does, the only way they can make a true difference is by not insitutionalising those who are just your typical drug addicts, who don’t physically harm others nor traffick serious quantities. Some people commit crimes to intentionally return to prison, because it’s better than the life they have outside. I think this actually demonstrates that prisons are not the “tough” environments that everybody thinks they are.
I suppose here one could make an argument for services outside, which do also exist, however some of these people have been raised this way and know no different. You can plant the idea of a lifestyle change, but they are the ones who have to act upon it. I think the prison population is going nuts due to usual population rises, and then of course Ice…
We put too many people in jail, and a percentage of them become hardened crims, because as you said they form relationships with others, have no jobs prospects or hope and the cycle continues.
On one end of the scale, I am in favour of eliminating creeps like this guy who has just murdered 5 and hurt many. Add in the murderers, rapists and paedofiles and we eliminate the worst, who do not deserve to be part of our society.
At the other end, jailing people for road offences, non-payment of fines, drug using and white collar crime is just nonsense. I worked with a guy who embezzled $600,000 from our employer and another guy who murdered his Wife. One got 7 years jail that other got 4 years; yep the murderer was out first.
jailing people for … white collar crime is just nonsense
I was with you up to here…
What? People that steal huge amounts of cash, often ripping off working stiffs in the process, don’t go to jail?
What would you propose for a deterrent for it then? Or would it just be a free for all to steal at will?
There is no votes to be won on rehabilitating criminals. As long as that is the case then we will have the same problem.
There is no votes to be won on rehabilitating criminals. As long as that is the case then we will have the same problem.
Well, in some regard there is because a rehabilitated criminal is one less burden for society.
Vote 1 Rodrigo Duterte - tough on criminals.