Brad Scott - The Plan is Fine (Part 3)

[bullishish]

McGrath could easily be traded for a decent pick. And wouldn’t be that much of a loss and would go on to win finals with another club

[Tbone]

You and I don’t agree on much in this thread but you are bang on here.
If we are ever to jump up and have a proper crack we need that high end talent.
In my opinion after the saga we should have let most of them go and hung around the bottom for a while would have had some players now coming into there primes

[Finding_Nino]

What David King said at the time I didn’t agree but looking back we should have

[Barnardlives]

@Tbone

You and I don’t agree on much in this thread but you are bang on here.
If we are ever to jump up and have a proper crack we need that high end talent.
In my opinion after the saga we should have let most of them go and hung around the bottom for a while would have had some players now coming into there primes

I can’t remember the stat exactly but from memory we have the most first round draft picks on our list? It might have dropped to number two or three on the list with recent departures. Bottom line is we have done the bottoming out thing to attract talent through the draft. We just haven’t had a program that has developed that talent to a top level.

Draft picks isn’t what we need, it’s a football program that builds on that talent. Yet to be seen whether the changes that came with Brad Scott get us there or not.

[Captain_Jack]

@centipede2

And we don’t have the list for Top 4, unless some insane progression happens miraculously, so it needs to be Bottom 4.

Need? As much as you might want us to be bottom 4, l doubt that such a want, translates into a need.

[centipede2]

@Captain_Jack

Need? As much as you might want us to be bottom 4, l doubt that such a want, translates into a need.

Damn, you took the energy your body requires, to move your fingers to type that and press reply. You must be proud.

[Tbone]

Expect the problem with that stat was it also included guys we traded in like wright Weid Setters so it’s a bit misleading and there is also a huge difference between pick 16 and picks 1-3 but both are considered first rounders

[Tagger]

@James98

Did he? Look at some of the absolute shizen on their list still
Zak Jones
Dougal Howard
Ryan Byrnes

all given new deals

Worst list than ours

In my previous most I said that Saints list was awful. But Ross got them playing finals year 1 and then got them playing almost the best attacking football in the league in the back end of last year

[Tagger]

@Houli_Dooli

Think best 22 guys Scott has put to the sword
Heppell (eventually), BZT, Kelly, Stringer, Walla, Phillips, Snelling, Hind

I don’t think you can say Scott put a line through BZT, Kelly, Walla and Phillips

[Tagger]

Interesting way to assess Scott is to compare him over the last 2 years compared to Ross at the Saints

Scott’s record at Essendon has been:
48% wins
85 average points scored
89 average points conceded

Compared to Rutten, he has improved the win percentage (Rutten was 41% wins). But in terms of points scored and points against, we are essentially the same team (Rutten 84 points scored, 88 points against)

Lyon has probably shown more improvement than Ratten

Win percentage:
Lyon: 52%, Ratten 48%

Points for:
Lyon: 77, Ratten 76

Points against:
Lyon: 74, Ratten 80

[Ants]

@bomber_rhys1

When would you hear about an approach to a player that is declined through their agent? Not everything is leaked, sometimes it pays for both parties to keep stuff confidential.

Well, we heard about Hooker. And we’re not talking about approaches to agents.

As for your second point, understand your view, but if you look at a team like Geelong they can manage quality older players well into their mid 30s and maximise their play whilst bringing in the next group. I would say we keep the guys we know are quality, and simply focus on that next group. It’s also worked for Collingwood, they won a premiership maintaining older players in the mix well into their 30s.

I also have an issue with clubs that simply dump their stalwarts for trinkets. Merrett is a leader, and takes his role as captain seriously. You lose any culture your team might have by exiting him, and people like him. We are already struggling with culture, don’t dump the experienced guys you do trust.

We’re not Geelong.

Collingwood’s success came from getting the best player as a F/S. Your strategy relies on mid-tier picks to replace Merrett.

You might have an issue with trading out older players but many successful clubs have utilised that approach. Our approach has been a failure, but we’re continuing it.

[Ants]

@jonovdp

People are sick of the club hedging their bets each way for the last 20 years.

We’re rebuilding and trying to win a final at the same time.

It’s either one or the other.

Doing both does not work

Absolutely.

[Clone_Hirdy]

@Finding_Nino

At least out list has some promise and hope to work with

I rate St Kilda’s list ahead of ours.

[Ants]

@Finding_Nino

Isnt our listed rated as one of the youngest in 2025?

Also we drafted 7 players last year and we will hit the draft again this year if thats not bringing youth in then i dont know what is.

This is completely irrelevant. You (and others) talk about the age of the list. That’s totally irrelevant. What matters is the talent of the list. Those of us who want a full rebuild don’t simply want youth. What we want is a chunk of first round and top 5 picks. We want TALENT.

Now, maybe last years draft is as deep as some said, or we get lucky, and we’ve got a number of quality kids with picks #37+. But historical league odds would say we’re unlikely to get even 1 top player and 1 average player out of those six picked after Kako.

Me arguing to trade Merrett, Langford, Wright etc is about getting more shots at the most talented kids, both via the traded value that comes in and with low finishes over several seasons. It’s about turning a pick 70 into a pick 10 and our normal pick 10 into pick 3.

[Houli_Dooli]

St Kildas list is just middle of the road.

Rowan Marshall probably their best player or Jack Steele for mine.
will see if Jack Macrae clicks, could just lead them to being good enough to miss early picks, but not good enough to actually do anything.
Wilkie is serviceable defender, not sure I’d have him as a A grader maybe a B or B+

I can get excited about Wanganeen Milera and Wilson, and maybe Phillipou buts that it.

Sos has been picking carlton rejects like Dow and carroll and stocker.

Tauru and Travaglia might come good as well, but don’t expect much from them next year, if they could get a back flank spot might actually add some run and dare and kicking skills back there.

It feels like Ross is squeezing more out of the old blokes for the present with less respect for the future.

[Ants]

@JBOMBER

@bomber_rhys1

Do we know what the compensation was going to be from Sydney? Maybe it might have turned out to be similar compensation. I believe they were also hoping at the time to get him to reconsider.

We know it was in a non compromised draft so that in itself highlights we were worse off hanging on to Joe for the extra year. It was always a dumb decision. Unless we were planning on bottoming out you always look to trade while you have a contract than wait for compo. Yet another example of the list management being out of sync with the club direction. Joe had checked out and was never going to increase his value. Hoping he’d stay was farcical.

I generally agree with your points (and at the time said whoever made the decision should be fired) but I would point out the 2020 draft was compromised by COVID, which was hardly foreseeable. That said, it was also considered a weaker draft (in 2019). Although Sydney may not have been offering 2019 picks anyway.

@bomber_rhys1

So presumably we would have got Sydney’s first round 2019 (pick 5) and whatever their pick would have ended up being in 2020 as a future first. That would have put the second pick back in the compromised draft anyway.

no. The main offer was their 2020 first. Whether they’d have added a 2019 #5, #9 or a second rounder is unknown. Some articles said a 2019 first was on the table (especially if Papley left). But there was a lot of evidence they were trying to force through a cheap trade and those firsts were never on the table.

[bomber_rhys1]

I don’t know about you, but I’m very tired of this topic.

Fill your boots. Feel free to quote it.

[Houli_Dooli]

I much prefer Daniher winning a flag at the Lions over Daniher winning a flag at the Bin Chickens.

[Ants]

@JBOMBER

@Finding_Nino

We had just as many first round picks over the years as the expansion teams yet still suck.

The clubs player development and culture is a far bigger problem for us then simply needing more high end picks if we don’t fix that first then high end talent will go to waste

I personally find it infinitely more likely that the 1 recruiting GM with zero experience and a consistent record of ■■■■ picking was a bigger issue than multiple premiership players and coaches all being incompetent at developing players. High end picks failed with multiple coaching panels but we’ve not seen a non-dodo list since early 2000’s.

I find it strange that ~6 senior coaches and a plethora of assistant coaches obviously thought the list/recruiting was good enough would imply that talent identification wasn’t the issue you make it out to be.

[Finding_Nino]

Merret the only player we have who would fetch us a top 15 pick the other senior players we will be lucky to get a second round.

Only way your idea makse sense is if we got a draft haul Richmond