Brad Scott - The Plan is Fine (Part 3)

[bltn]

McGrath would fetch a Pick in the high teens, despite what most would say on Blitz.
Ridds the same.
Nic Martin probably in the 10-15 region.

Caddy obviously would be valued as a Top 10 (or better), but is clearly in the untouchable category.

Durham/Caldwell would be worth 1st round Picks.
By the end of '25, Durham could be worth much more.

[Finding_Nino]

Unless they net us a top 15 pick i wouldnt be trading anyone of note

We have tones of salary cap afl needs to introduce pick buying

[bltn]

I agree.
I wouldn’t be trading any of the above players.
Was merely stating what they would be worth to other teams IMO.

I personally would try to move on Parish, Draper & Hobbs.

Parish will be tough now as he is post FA.
Draper may net us a 1st rounder (FA) as the Crows will be keen to replace O’Brien.
Hobbs I’m not a fan of, though will still hold some value to select sides.

[Albert_Thurgood]

@Ants

Me arguing to trade Merrett, Langford, Wright etc is about getting more shots at the most talented kids, both via the traded value that comes in and with low finishes over several seasons. It’s about turning a pick 70 into a pick 10 and our normal pick 10 into pick 3.

The trouble with that strategy is we have to a) correctly identify the talent, and b) develop it appropriately

EFC has spectacularly failed at both for the last 20+ years. Maybe talent spotting will improve post-Dodoro but development is still an issue.

[JBOMBER]

@Ants

@JBOMBER

@Finding_Nino

We had just as many first round picks over the years as the expansion teams yet still suck.

The clubs player development and culture is a far bigger problem for us then simply needing more high end picks if we don’t fix that first then high end talent will go to waste

I personally find it infinitely more likely that the 1 recruiting GM with zero experience and a consistent record of ■■■■ picking was a bigger issue than multiple premiership players and coaches all being incompetent at developing players. High end picks failed with multiple coaching panels but we’ve not seen a non-dodo list since early 2000’s.

I find it strange that ~6 senior coaches and a plethora of assistant coaches obviously thought the list/recruiting was good enough would imply that talent identification wasn’t the issue you make it out to be.

I find it bizarre that you assume with zero evidence that any let alone all those coaches actually believed the list & recruiting was good enough - based on what exactly??? Why is it obvious what any of them actually believed in their own judgements?

Good enough for what? Knights inherited a list that was good enough to get our greatest ever coach sacked. Hird inherited a list that even he, Bomba & a highly regarded support team including eventual premiership coach Goodwin couldn’t even get to win a final even with 2 full seasons pre-saga. Do you actually believe Woosha came in with the belief that he already had a list that was good enough for anything let alone premierships? Having seen 1st hand how Woosha failed is there actually some reality you imagine where Truck actually believed he had a list comparable in ability to what he’d worked with at Richmond? IF, as you so wrongly assume, Scott somehow thought our list & recruiting was good enough then why have we pushed the person responsible out of the club?

The reality is you have absolutely no idea what any of our coaches or assistants actually thought about the state of our list & the recruitment decisions so stop making up BS.

[up_up]

@Houli_Dooli

I much prefer Daniher winning a flag at the Lions over Daniher winning a flag at the Bin Chickens.

Not so sure- sympathy for the Royboy factor, but Fagan’s HFC stuff and the Daniher/Swans link pull me the other way.

[Ants]

@Finding_Nino

Merret the only player we have who would fetch us a top 15 pick the other senior players we will be lucky to get a second round.

Only way your idea makse sense is if we got a draft haul Richmond

Because medium forwards (without off field issues) that kick 40 goals a year grow on trees …

[IceTemple]

Even the ones with off-field issues don’t kick 40 goals every year…

[Ants]

@Albert_Thurgood

@Ants

Me arguing to trade Merrett, Langford, Wright etc is about getting more shots at the most talented kids, both via the traded value that comes in and with low finishes over several seasons. It’s about turning a pick 70 into a pick 10 and our normal pick 10 into pick 3.

The trouble with that strategy is we have to a) correctly identify the talent, and b) develop it appropriately

EFC has spectacularly failed at both for the last 20+ years. Maybe talent spotting will improve post-Dodoro but development is still an issue.

It’s got the advantage if it fails the AFL will replace our board.

But the 20 years thing is rubbish. Across 2012 and 2013 we looked like we’d become a top 4 team if the saga hadn’t stuffed us. That was built off low finishes across 2005-2010 and trading Lovett & Richards.

[Ants]

@JBOMBER

@Ants

@JBOMBER

@Finding_Nino

We had just as many first round picks over the years as the expansion teams yet still suck.

The clubs player development and culture is a far bigger problem for us then simply needing more high end picks if we don’t fix that first then high end talent will go to waste

I personally find it infinitely more likely that the 1 recruiting GM with zero experience and a consistent record of ■■■■ picking was a bigger issue than multiple premiership players and coaches all being incompetent at developing players. High end picks failed with multiple coaching panels but we’ve not seen a non-dodo list since early 2000’s.

I find it strange that ~6 senior coaches and a plethora of assistant coaches obviously thought the list/recruiting was good enough would imply that talent identification wasn’t the issue you make it out to be.

I find it bizarre that you assume with zero evidence that any let alone all those coaches actually believed the list & recruiting was good enough - based on what exactly??? Why is it obvious what any of them actually believed in their own judgements?

Good enough for what? Knights inherited a list that was good enough to get our greatest ever coach sacked. Hird inherited a list that even he, Bomba & a highly regarded support team including eventual premiership coach Goodwin couldn’t even get to win a final even with 2 full seasons pre-saga. Do you actually believe Woosha came in with the belief that he already had a list that was good enough for anything let alone premierships? Having seen 1st hand how Woosha failed is there actually some reality you imagine where Truck actually believed he had a list comparable in ability to what he’d worked with at Richmond? IF, as you so wrongly assume, Scott somehow thought our list & recruiting was good enough then why have we pushed the person responsible out of the club?

The reality is you have absolutely no idea what any of our coaches or assistants actually thought about the state of our list & the recruitment decisions so stop making up BS.

I’ve got what is in the public domain m, and what isn’t. So, I’ve got none saying the list wasn’t good enough. I’ve got Knights arguing over Hardwick we had the talent and didn’t need to cut more. I have a plethora of coaches making statements about aiming for finals. Probably every one of them other than Knights. I’ve got zero articles over 20 years about ex-coaches or assistants anonymously or not potting the list. I’ve got the clubs recruiting strategy which has appeared (and been publicly stated) as being about playing finals.

And I’ve got that at no time were there any major calls beyond a few fans for Dodorro to go.

Effectively your argument appears to be that Dodorro, this arch-evil, managed to hoodwink the board, executive, the entire coaching staff and media for 20-25 years. Without a single voice in the establishment calling him out.

[Preliminary_Point2]

@Ants

Effectively your argument appears to be that Dodorro, this arch-evil, managed to hoodwink the board, executive, the entire coaching staff and media for 20-25 years. Without a single voice in the establishment calling him out.

Richardson the footy GM presented to the board we needed a rebuild and got fired. His replacement Mahonay clashed with Dodorro and there where shenanigans around changes in reporting lines needed.

That’s two GM’s in a row that clashed with Dodorro over his working methods and state of the list. Then Voss acted so that there wasn’t a third. If you can’t see the trend and the obvious issues you aren’t looking hard enough.

Before that you had Essendon men in Hamilton and Corcoran, so no smoke arose.

[James98]

List has never been a problem. It’s always been developments fault

Right

[bullishish]

They may not have thought the list was ordinary but history has shown them to be wrong

[Tbone]

Also the fact that as soon as we sacked him he ran to fair work so obviously his contract was water tight making sacking him very difficult

[Albert_Thurgood]

@Ants

But the 20 years thing is rubbish. Across 2012 and 2013 we looked like we’d become a top 4 team if the saga hadn’t stuffed us.

You are confusing two things. I was talking about 20 years of bad drafting of high draft picks and also poor development.
The team itself has been very poor over that period, EXCEPT for the years where Hird got the team performing and before the AFL sacrificed us to cover up for drug cheating clubs.

[JBOMBER]

@Ants

@JBOMBER

@Ants

@JBOMBER

@Finding_Nino

We had just as many first round picks over the years as the expansion teams yet still suck.

The clubs player development and culture is a far bigger problem for us then simply needing more high end picks if we don’t fix that first then high end talent will go to waste

I personally find it infinitely more likely that the 1 recruiting GM with zero experience and a consistent record of ■■■■ picking was a bigger issue than multiple premiership players and coaches all being incompetent at developing players. High end picks failed with multiple coaching panels but we’ve not seen a non-dodo list since early 2000’s.

I find it strange that ~6 senior coaches and a plethora of assistant coaches obviously thought the list/recruiting was good enough would imply that talent identification wasn’t the issue you make it out to be.

I find it bizarre that you assume with zero evidence that any let alone all those coaches actually believed the list & recruiting was good enough - based on what exactly??? Why is it obvious what any of them actually believed in their own judgements?

Good enough for what? Knights inherited a list that was good enough to get our greatest ever coach sacked. Hird inherited a list that even he, Bomba & a highly regarded support team including eventual premiership coach Goodwin couldn’t even get to win a final even with 2 full seasons pre-saga. Do you actually believe Woosha came in with the belief that he already had a list that was good enough for anything let alone premierships? Having seen 1st hand how Woosha failed is there actually some reality you imagine where Truck actually believed he had a list comparable in ability to what he’d worked with at Richmond? IF, as you so wrongly assume, Scott somehow thought our list & recruiting was good enough then why have we pushed the person responsible out of the club?

The reality is you have absolutely no idea what any of our coaches or assistants actually thought about the state of our list & the recruitment decisions so stop making up BS.

I’ve got what is in the public domain m, and what isn’t. So, I’ve got none saying the list wasn’t good enough. I’ve got Knights arguing over Hardwick we had the talent and didn’t need to cut more. I have a plethora of coaches making statements about aiming for finals. Probably every one of them other than Knights. I’ve got zero articles over 20 years about ex-coaches or assistants anonymously or not potting the list. I’ve got the clubs recruiting strategy which has appeared (and been publicly stated) as being about playing finals.

And I’ve got that at no time were there any major calls beyond a few fans for Dodorro to go.

Effectively your argument appears to be that Dodorro, this arch-evil, managed to hoodwink the board, executive, the entire coaching staff and media for 20-25 years. Without a single voice in the establishment calling him out.

So you are now claiming to have spoken to all the past coaches & assistants & all of them have confided in you that they highly rated our list & recruiting while they were at the club BUT in doing so concede that they were personally incompetent at their jobs & couldn’t even get close to the lists potential in performance? Really, thats the level your delusion will now plunge?

The facts are that no coaches past or present at any club will come out & publicly declare that their list is putrid. Its just not what coaches do not to mention the fact that when sacked they sign NDA’s. No club will be honest with its fans & tell them to lose all hope for the next 5 years because this joint is farked no matter how true that is. All new coaches have to come in & sell hope because thats what the club expects them to do. Yze walked into a terrible list, I know it, you know it, everyone with a functional brain knows it BUT that doesn’t mean that Yze actually believed he was starting with a list that would deliver success last year simply because he didn’t start the job potting what he’d inherited. Nearly all new coaches start at clubs that have recently failed & the state of their list is a major reason for that. A new coach will never start by saying they have got very little to work with.

Once again you have got nothing but the fact that the least successful club of the last 20 years didn’t act to get rid of Dodoro so that somehow equals he did a good job.

[Captain_Jack]

@Houli_Dooli

Wilkie is serviceable defender, not sure I’d have him as a A grader maybe a B or B+

Wilkie is an A grade defender, l rate him higher than Steele, second only to Marshall. IIRC he won their B & F.

[Knives_Out]

If Brad finishes bottom 4 and is sacked he has no one to blame but himself. He has wasted two years now putting his faith in underperforming senior players and overseen signing the core of that list to long-term deals.

[Rom]

The Knives will certainly be out for him.

[Finding_Nino]

Well If they sack him then the club hasn’t learnt anything at that point might as well hand in our license to the AFL we need to stick with a coach for more then 3 years