Brexit


#221
Its "dominated" by Germany - once a much mocked economy for being staid and 'safe' - because they are the only financial muscle capable of, and willing to, hold it all together. If they asked for security from Greece, I'm not surprised. Here's a country with a public funded pension system that was allowing people to retire at 50 and sometimes even earlier. Lol. Sounds idyllic.

I was really surprised to read that Italy is the third largest economy (presumably now 2nd?) in the EU. And they’re in strife!? Doesnt bode well.

The mutterings within the EU that they need to re-evaluate how they do things says plenty.

This bit wouldn’t be as bad, if dodging tax wasn’t considered an Olympic sport over there.


#222

To be honest I was surprised the whole EU idea ever got off the ground. They are united but with a million asterisks.


#223

It’s water under the bridge now, but Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro. The EU is debatable, but the Euro - no way. All the EU was just mad to expand and get monetary union covering as many countries as possible, the Greeks blatantly lied about their finances and everyone just nodded and smiled and let it pass. Now everyone has to deal with the consequences. One of the smarter things the brits did was to NOT get tied to the Euro, cos it let them float their own currency according to national conditions rather than being shackled to an artificially high exchange rate by Germany’s industrial sector.

But the point is that the EU has been historically very willing to break its own rules when politically convenient. Hell, even the germans went over the prescribed budget deficit maximum a while back, and nobody did anything.


#224

The impetus for European economic integration was political and political imperatives drove successive enlargements. While for Greece, it was “where do I sign?”, Spanish negotiations were protracted and required adjustments in the fisheries and agriculture sectors, not only for Italy, but for Northern Europe.
The buzz word now is about elites and that the EU should have done more about regional income disparities instead of stuffing up its response to the GFC.
The EU is now facing its own internal political problems and I can understand a leave protest vote when EU membership had not brought perceived benefits to some regions. However, the regional income disparities are a problem that the UK could resolve. That was always within UK sovereignty.


#225
Its "dominated" by Germany - once a much mocked economy for being staid and 'safe' - because they are the only financial muscle capable of, and willing to, hold it all together. If they asked for security from Greece, I'm not surprised. Here's a country with a public funded pension system that was allowing people to retire at 50 and sometimes even earlier. Lol. Sounds idyllic.

I was really surprised to read that Italy is the third largest economy (presumably now 2nd?) in the EU. And they’re in strife!? Doesnt bode well.

The mutterings within the EU that they need to re-evaluate how they do things says plenty.

Imagine how large Italy’s economy would be if the black economy was included.


#226

Italy got so badly reamed up the ■■■■ when they switched to Euro. According rellos, their money halved in value. They have €700 a month minimum wage, with petrol costing €1.50 a litre. I have relatives who are happy because they found a job that pays €5 an hour! They weren’t great before Euro, but they were not this bad…


#227
Its "dominated" by Germany - once a much mocked economy for being staid and 'safe' - because they are the only financial muscle capable of, and willing to, hold it all together.
Sure, but Germany isn't hellbent on holding the whole thing together out of a sense of altruism - they are the biggest beneficiaries of what is really a somewhat rigged mechanism to transfer wealth from poorer periphery EU nations, to the powerful EU nations.

#228
Italy got so badly reamed up the ■■■■ when they switched to Euro. According rellos, their money halved in value. They have €700 a month minimum wage, with petrol costing €1.50 a litre. I have relatives who are happy because they found a job that pays €5 an hour! They weren't great before Euro, but they were not this bad...

■■■■
ING
Hell

Where about are your relos? Here is was whinging about a 15% service charge (which I’m still angry about BTW) which worked out to be about one hour of your relos wage.

I’m heading to Calabria in a week’s time, will be interesting to hear what they say about the EU.


#229
Italy got so badly reamed up the ■■■■ when they switched to Euro. According rellos, their money halved in value. They have €700 a month minimum wage, with petrol costing €1.50 a litre. I have relatives who are happy because they found a job that pays €5 an hour! They weren't great before Euro, but they were not this bad...

■■■■
ING
Hell

Where about are your relos? Here is was whinging about a 15% service charge (which I’m still angry about BTW) which worked out to be about one hour of your relos wage.

I’m heading to Calabria in a week’s time, will be interesting to hear what they say about the EU.

My rellos are from south to north, my partner is also Roman (hence me spending time there). He used to work around 80 hours a week for that €700. A lot of people will do a “stage” (i.e. work for free), because they’re desperate for something on the CV. If you don’t have parents with money, well you’ve got no hope. The Euro is a shocking thing and Italy, Greece and whoever else were robbed. I don’t know ■■■■ about business or economy, but it doesn’t take an idiot to realise one currency does not fit all. I wear the tin-foil hat, daylight robbery it is.


#230

It’s all relative to the cost of living. €700 translate to roughly $1050au which isn’t much but then compare it to what a loaf of bread costs or a litre of milk or petrol as you mentioned and it’s probably worse.


#231

That confirms what I am told by an I Italian bloke that does work for me. He has an economics degree but couldn’t find any work over there that fitted his skills. Could only find short term hospitality jobs. I met him on a site here in WA. He was doing the shttiest work. Did it well and with no complaints. They had labourers walk off after a couple of hours on this job the works was that crap but he pushed through. He was then on a working holiday visa. He told me that no matter how sht the work is here, he is 100x better off in Australia as Italy has zero prospects and is a basket case. He’s now on a student visa (because he cocked up his travel visa) and pays out 1000’s of $ every few months for tuition fees etc just so he doesn’t have to go back to Italy. I’d 457 him if I could guarantee him work for 2x years he’s that good.


#232
Italy got so badly reamed up the ■■■■ when they switched to Euro. According rellos, their money halved in value. They have €700 a month minimum wage, with petrol costing €1.50 a litre. I have relatives who are happy because they found a job that pays €5 an hour! They weren't great before Euro, but they were not this bad...

■■■■
ING
Hell

Where about are your relos? Here is was whinging about a 15% service charge (which I’m still angry about BTW) which worked out to be about one hour of your relos wage.

I’m heading to Calabria in a week’s time, will be interesting to hear what they say about the EU.

Thought they were still using the lira in Calabria.


#233

A lot of the countries can’t blame all their economic woes on the Euro. That’s just picking out the bits you need.


#234

First world problems really tho


#235
That confirms what I am told by an I Italian bloke that does work for me. He has an economics degree but couldn't find any work over there that fitted his skills. Could only find short term hospitality jobs. I met him on a site here in WA. He was doing the sh*ttiest work. Did it well and with no complaints. They had labourers walk off after a couple of hours on this job the works was that crap but he pushed through. He was then on a working holiday visa. He told me that no matter how sh*t the work is here, he is 100x better off in Australia as Italy has zero prospects and is a basket case. He's now on a student visa (because he cocked up his travel visa) and pays out 1000's of $ every few months for tuition fees etc just so he doesn't have to go back to Italy. I'd 457 him if I could guarantee him work for 2x years he's that good.

Just hide him in your basement and pay him cash. He didn’t arrive by boat so it’s all sweet, the guvment don’t care.


#236

I am not sure whether the Grexit will be the “wake up call” that the EU and its 2 remaining power house members need to deal with the massive threats it faces from within, in terms of debt, unemployment and people movement, rather than "band aid " measures.

The assumption of the EU bureaucrats had been that if one country had youth or adult unemployment , those out of work could move to another member state and get a job, superimpose illegal immigration on this and people movement becomes a problem that the actual people of the stronger countries start to object to. Its not necessarily a racist thing. Its just the volumes of prospective movements and the responsibilities that a member state has to provide all the modern socialist benefits for these new people, quite often at the expense of those who have paid taxes for years.

Looking to endless debt fueled economic growth to solve Europes problems is not going to work. Growth cannot and will not go on for ever.
The EU bureaucrats will have to make some big “cuts” and that is something bureaucrats do not like at all.

Italy got so badly reamed up the ■■■■ when they switched to Euro. According rellos, their money halved in value. They have €700 a month minimum wage, with petrol costing €1.50 a litre. I have relatives who are happy because they found a job that pays €5 an hour! They weren’t great before Euro, but they were not this bad…

■■■■
ING
Hell

Where about are your relos? Here is was whinging about a 15% service charge (which I’m still angry about BTW) which worked out to be about one hour of your relos wage.

I’m heading to Calabria in a week’s time, will be interesting to hear what they say about the EU.

My rellos are from south to north, my partner is also Roman (hence me spending time there). He used to work around 80 hours a week for that €700. A lot of people will do a “stage” (i.e. work for free), because they’re desperate for something on the CV. If you don’t have parents with money, well you’ve got no hope. The Euro is a shocking thing and Italy, Greece and whoever else were robbed. I don’t know ■■■■ about business or economy, but it doesn’t take an idiot to realise one currency does not fit all. I wear the tin-foil hat, daylight robbery it is.

But isnt the EU all about the elites in Brussels ? The just need to keep everyone in Europe under control and they can collect their €€€€€ pay and their €€€€€€€ pension. They run Europe, but because they are bureaucrats they only have to obey the Germans, and paper the cracks. They cannot be sacked. Of course now that Britain said FU Europe, they are getting just a bit worried because printing money / issuing bonds to banks doesnt stop that kind of rot.


#237

So Farage now walks away from the cesspool he’s helped create. Deadset ■■■■■■■■


#238

Like most I’ve only learnt about this thing in the days leading up to the decision. But seriously, if you’re gonna lay the groundwork this sort of change then you have to be prepared to be there and see it through.

If all the key Leave people bail, then surely you’d argue they can Stay


#239
So Farage now walks away from the cesspool he's helped create. Deadset ■■■■■■■■

wanker of the highest order


#240

Wasn’t sure if I should put this one in here or the Politics thread.

But Richard Edelman, the head of the communications marketing firm Edelman, sees something more significant in the change: proof of a new “world of self-reference” that, once you notice it, helps explain everything from Donald Trump’s appeal to Britain’s vote to exit the European Union. Elites used to possess outsized influence and authority, Edelman notes, but now they only have a monopoly on authority. Influence largely rests with the broader population. People trust their peers much more than they trust their political leaders or news organizations.