Brexit


#241

Interesting.


#242

Reports now suggest that Merkel wants to isolate Juncker, Commission President and to negotiate with the UK through the EU Council of nationally elected Ministers.


#243

Quite.


#244
Reports now suggest that Merkel wants to isolate Juncker, Commission President and to negotiate with the UK through the EU Council of nationally elected Ministers.

Good. Juncker is a massive ■■■■ and a tax cheat.


#245

There’s been a Brexit Exit.

More like an exodus, … multiple Tory MP’s resigning, . Rees Moggs organising a coup,. (or not?)

Shitz blowing up in London like it’s the 1970’s!!

dorsetecho.co.uk

Brexit live: Jacob Rees-Mogg declares no confidence in PM

Press Association 2018

22-27 minutes

Prime Minister Theresa May has presented her deal on Britain’s EU withdrawal to the Commons.

Dominic Raab sensationally quit as Brexit Secretary on Thursday morning, in a massive blow to the PM’s plans.

Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey then followed suit.

Later, Jacob Rees-Mogg submitted a letter of no-confidence in the Prime Minister to Sir Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee.

Here’s the latest:

(TIME LINE OF TODAYS EVENTS BEGINS AT THE BOTTOM)

2.06pm

Chief Whip Julian Smith has said the Prime Minister would not abandon the withdrawal agreement in the face of widespread opposition among MPs.

Leaving Downing Street, he told reporters: “The Prime Minister is moving things on in the best interests of the country.

“The Prime Minister will not be bullied and will not change course.”

2.05pm

Mr Rees-Mogg said that he believed the necessary 48 letters to trigger a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister would be submitted, but declined to put a timeframe on the process.

If Mrs May was rejected by MPs, a vote to choose her successor could be conducted in “not months but weeks”, he said.

Asked why he was defying calls for party unity, he said: “People always call for unity when the policy they are following is wrong. It is a standard pattern of Conservatives when they note that failure is in the air.”

He said that Dominic Raab should not be blamed for the deal negotiated with Brussels, as it was clear that the process was driven by Downing Street. There was no point appointing a new Brexit Secretary, he said.

1.50pm

Mr Rees-Mogg declined to name his preferred candidate for leader.

But he listed Boris Johnson, David Davis, Dominic Raab, Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt as potential candidates to succeed Mrs May.

1.47pm

Speaking outside Parliament, Jacob Rees-Mogg denied he was attempting a “coup” against Theresa May.

He said a coup involved using “illegitimate procedures” to remove someone from office, while he was making use of Conservative Party rules in an “entirely constitutional” way.

Mr Rees-Mogg said he was not putting himself forward as an alternative leader of the Tories.

“I am not offering my name as leader,” he said.

And he added: “This is nothing to do with the ambition of Brexiteers. It is everything to do with the ambition of Brexit for this country.”

Discussing Mrs May’s plan, he said: “This is not Brexit. It is a failure of Government policy. It needs to be rejected.”

1.45pm

Prominent Eurosceptic Tory MP Andrea Jenkyns, who previously threatened to trigger a leadership contest over the Prime Minister’s Brexit plans, said it was “time to save Brexit and our party with a new leader”.

From what MPs are telling me, more letters have gone in. I have even had current ministers tell me that in a vote of no confidence they would vote Theresa May out. She can fight it. But I am confident she will not win it. Time to save Brexit and our party with a new leader.

— Andrea Jenkyns MP #StandUp4Brexit November 15, 2018

1.32pm

Meanwhile, a protester who was blocking the road outside the Houses of Parliament has been removed by police.

(Nick Ansell/PA)

Brexit protest(Nick Ansell/PA)

1.30pm

Theresa May’s Brexit statement to the Commons came to an end after nearly three hours.

Some of the Tory MPs in the chamber cheered as the PM answered the final question.

Her statement began at 10.30am and finished at 1.28pm.

1.25pm

Jacob Rees-Mogg has handed in his letter of no-confidence to Sir Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee, saying Theresa May’s Brexit deal “has turned out to be worse than anticipated and fails to meet the promises given to the nation by the Prime Minister”.

1.10pm

Meanwhile, a YouGov poll indicated almost half of voters now back a second Brexit referendum.

Support for a fresh vote on EU withdrawal was backed by 48% in a survey carried out after Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement text was published on Wednesday night.

The poll, commissioned by the People’s Vote and published in the London Evening Standard, found that just 34% were against a new vote.

With “don’t know’s” removed the ratio was 59%-42% in favour of a new referendum. If Mrs May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64%-36%, excluding don’t knows.

It also found voters were split 54%-46% in favour of remaining in the EU. Little more than one in 10 (12%) believed that the UK was going to get a good deal with the EU.

The poll surveyed 1,153 people.

1.05pm

Brexit-backing Tories in the European Research Group have gathered for a meeting in Parliament.

A loud banging of tables could be heard from outside. The meeting is being chaired by Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Former minister Sir Edward Leigh said “very possibly” there would be enough letters submitted to the 1922 Committee today, although he will not send one.

There was a “genuine difference of opinion”, he said.

1pm

Jacob Rees-Mogg is to submit a letter of no-confidence in the leadership of Theresa May, a European Research Group spokesman has said.

He earlier threatened the PM with a vote of no confidence during the Commons debate.

12.50pm

Conservative MP Ranil Jayawardena has quit his post as a parliamentary private secretary in the Ministry of Justice, telling the Prime Minister that her EU withdrawal agreement “does not deliver a good and fair Brexit”.

The North-East Hampshire MP, who had served at the non-ministerial rank of PPS since January this year, backed Leave in the 2016 referendum campaign.

In a letter to Mrs May, he said: “A good and fair Brexit must be good for those with close links to the European Union, be that family or business, but it must be fair to those who voted to leave the EU also – taking back control of our laws, our borders and our money.

“This draft agreement does not do that.”

pic.twitter.com/v3m1BhIMAN

— Team Ranil (TeamRanil) November 15, 2018

12.45pm

Shortest-serving Cabinet ministers since 2010(PA Graphics)

12.40pm

Theresa May dismissed suggestions she should step aside, after Labour’s Mike Gapes asked: “Isn’t it time she recognised reality and after all the prodigious efforts stood aside for someone else who could take this country forward in a united way?”

But the Prime Minister replied simply: “No.”

12.30pm

As the debate continued in the Commons, Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) suggested Mrs May should step down following her own transition period.

He told the PM: “The Prime Minister is well known for her dancing – sadly having seen the withdrawal agreement it’s now clear whose tune she’s been dancing to.

“(Mrs May) campaigned for Remain, she voted Remain, now surely it’s in the national interest for her to leave – perhaps following a short transition period.”

Mrs May replied: “Can I note the way in which he carefully tried to weave into his question various references to matters that are not perhaps entirely relevant to the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration.”

The PM said every MP will have a decision to take when the deal is before them.

12.10pm

Explaining his resignation, Dominic Raab said he believed Theresa May should stay on as Prime Minister but change course over Brexit.

“I have been fighting for a good Brexit deal but the terms proposed to the Cabinet yesterday had two major and fatal flaws,” he told the BBC.

“The first is that the terms being offered by the EU threaten the integrity of the UK.

“The second is that they would lead to an indefinite, if not permanent, situation where we are locked into a regime with no say over the rules and the laws being applied, with no exit mechanism.

“I think that will be damaging for the economy but devastating for public trust in our democracy.”

He said he still respected the Prime Minister and held her in “high esteem” adding: “I think she should continue but I do think we need to change course on Brexit.”

11.50am

11.35am

Leading Tory Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg directly raised the spectre of a leadership challenge to Mrs May.

Mr Rees-Mogg, chairman of the European Research Group, highlighted areas of the deal where he said the “honourable” Prime Minister had reneged on promises over leaving the customs union, maintaining the internal integrity of the UK and leaving the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

He told MPs: “As what my right honourable friend says and what my right honourable friend does no longer match, should I not write to my right honourable friend the member for Altrincham and Sale West?”

This was a reference to Sir Graham Brady MP, the chairman of the Tory 1922 committee, to whom MPs must write to express no confidence in a leader in order to trigger a challenge.

Mrs May replied that “some difficult choices have had to be made” to avoid a hard border on Ireland, adding: “It is not only our intention, but we will be working to ensure that protocol does not have to be put into place.”

(PA Graphics)

11.20am

Back in the Commons, the Democratic Unionist Party’s deputy leader Nigel Dodds tore into the Prime Minister over her deal’s handling of Northern Ireland.

He told MPs: “I could today stand here and take the Prime Minister through the list of promises and pledges she made to this house and to us, privately, about the future of Northern Ireland in the future relationship with the EU.

“But I fear it would be a waste of time since she clearly doesn’t listen.”

Mr Dodds, the DUP’s leader in Westminster, went on to praise the five ministers who quit on Thursday morning, saying: “The choice is now clear: we stand up for the United Kingdom, the whole of the United Kingdom, the integrity of the United Kingdom, or we vote for a vassal state with the breakup of the United Kingdom, that is the choice.”

Mrs May responded saying the deal ensured that “we are preserving the integrity of the United Kingdom”, adding: “The backstop is something which nether side, neither the United Kingdom nor the European Union wish to ever see being exercised.”

11.15am

Meanwhile, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan urged all MPs to “please vote against this bad deal” and repeated his call for a second public vote on Brexit.

The Prime Minister has now said we have a choice between her deal, no deal, or no Brexit at all.

Faced with a bad deal and a catastrophic no deal, the British public must be given the final say, with staying in the European Union an option on the ballot paper. pic.twitter.com/eKHLmSEoZc

— Sadiq Khan (@SadiqKhan) November 15, 2018

11.05am

He said: “In fact the list of EU measures that continue to apply to the UK in respect of Northern Ireland runs to 68 pages of the agreement, this affects VAT declarations and rules of origin checks.”

Mr Corbyn also said it was “clear the Prime Minister’s red line regarding jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice had also been torn up”.

He said: “By 2021 under the Prime Minister’s plan, we will either be in a backstop or still in transition.

“It is utterly far-fetched for the Prime Minister to say this plan means we take control over our laws, money and borders.”

Jeremy Corbyn(PA)

11am

Mr Corbyn went on: “The withdrawal agreement is a leap in the dark – an ill-defined deal by a never-defined date.”

The Labour leader told MPs that the backstop “insurance policy”, as Mrs May put it, would create a “de facto border down the Irish Sea”.

10.52am

(PA)

Mr Corbyn described the draft withdrawal agreement and the outline political declaration as a “huge and damaging failure”, adding: “After two years of bungled negotiations the Government has produced a botched deal that breaches the Prime Minister’s own red lines and does not meet our six tests.

“The Government is in chaos. Their deal risks leaving the country in an indefinite halfway house without a real say.

“When even the last Brexit Secretary, who theoretically at least negotiated the deal, says ‘I cannot support the proposed deal’, what faith does that give anyone else in this place or in this country?

“The Government simply cannot put to Parliament this half-baked deal that both the Brexit Secretary and his predecessor have rejected.

“No deal is not a real option and the Government has not seriously prepared for it.”

10.50am

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is responding to the Prime Minister’s statement.

10.45am

The scene in the Commons during the PM’s statement (PA)

10.43am

In her statement to the Commons, Mrs May said that the draft treaty agreed by Cabinet on Wednesday was not a final agreement, but brings the UK “close to a Brexit deal”.

There was laughter as she said that it would allow the UK to leave “in a smooth and orderly way” on March 29.

“It takes back control of our borders, laws and money. It protects jobs, security and the integrity of the United Kingdom, and it delivers in ways that many said could simply not be done,” said the PM.

“We were told we had a binary choice between the model of Norway and the model of Canada, that we could not have a bespoke deal.

“But the outline political declaration sets out an arrangement that is better for our country than both of these – a more ambitious free trade agreement than the EU has with any other country.

“We were told we would be treated like any other third country on security co-operation.

“But the outline political declaration sets out a breadth and depth of co-operation beyond anything the EU has agreed with any other country.”

(PA)

10.37am

Mrs May said that the agreements reached in negotiations on Britain’s future relations with the EU offered a “breadth and depth of co-operation beyond anything the EU has agreed with any other country”.

10.33am

Addressing MPs, Mrs May paid tribute to Dominic Raab and Esther McVey, who have resigned from her Cabinet.

She said: “Delivering Brexit involves difficult choices for all of us. We do not agree on all those choices, but I respect their views.”

10.31am

Theresa May is making a statement in the Commons.

10.30am

Anne-Marie Trevelyan has resigned as a parliamentary private secretary in the Department for Education, saying she cannot support the Brexit deal after negotiations “built on the UK trying to appease the EU”.

It is with sadness that I have submitted my letter of resignation as PPS to the Education Ministers to the Prime Minister. It has been a joy and a privilege to have served in defence and education. pic.twitter.com/AWlMXNxtT0

— Anne-Marie Trevelyan (@annietrev) November 15, 2018

10.29am

Suella Braverman has resigned as a Brexit minister, her office said.

10.27am

Lib Dem leader Sir Vince Cable responds to the resignations.

The Government started Britain on a journey with no actual idea of their route or their destination. The resignation of Raab and McVey is proof that the Conservative Government is in meltdown and it’s clear the Conservatives are now driving the country off a cliff.

— Vince Cable (@vincecable) November 15, 2018

The Tories are finally realising what we have always known. There is no way to prevent Brexit from leaving our country worse off. This is quite simply a #Brexitshambles

— Vince Cable (@vincecable) November 15, 2018

10.25am

Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon took a swipe at the Universal Credit scheme following Ms McVey’s exit.

I just hope that Esther McVey takes the travesty that is Universal Credit out the door with her.

— Nicola Sturgeon (@NicolaSturgeon) November 15, 2018

10.20am

10.15am

As two ministers resigned from the UK Cabinet, European Commission chief negotiator Michel Barnier tweeted…

Under the authority of President @JunckerEU and with the support of @EU_Commission, we reached an important step last night in the #Brexit negotiations. But there is a long road ahead. We remain determined to deliver an orderly withdrawal with the UK. pic.twitter.com/pWWbR4gMME

— Michel Barnier (@MichelBarnier) November 15, 2018

10.10am

In a resignation letter, Ms McVey cited concerns over the future of the Union and a lack of control over money, law, borders and trade policy under a deal she felt kept the UK too close to Brussels.

The Tatton MP wrote: “The British people have always been ahead of politicians on this issue, and it will be no good trying to pretend to them that this deal honours the result of the referendum when it is obvious to everyone that it doesn’t.

“We have gone from no deal is better than a bad deal, to any deal is better than no deal.

“I cannot defend this, and I cannot vote for this deal. I could not look my constituents in the eye were I to do that.

“I therefore have no alternative but to resign from the Government.”

10.05am

Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey has resigned, saying the Brexit deal “does not honour the result of the referendum”.

Earlier this morning I informed the Prime Minister I was resigning from her Cabinet pic.twitter.com/ZeBkL5n2xH

— Esther McVey (EstherMcVey1) November 15, 2018

10am

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable said: “The Government started Britain on a journey with no actual idea of their route or their destination. The Conservative Government is in meltdown and it’s clear the Conservatives are now driving the country off a cliff.

“The Tories are finally realising what we have always known. There is no way to prevent Brexit from leaving our country worse off.

“A People’s Vote on the final Brexit deal, where they can choose to remain in the EU, is the only route out of this uncertainty. It is time people had the power to end this mess.”

9.40am

(PA Graphics)

9.35am

Shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said: “This is now an incredibly serious situation. The Prime Minister’s Brexit deal has fallen at the first hurdle.

“When Theresa May makes her statement to Parliament this morning she can’t stand up and say ‘nothing has changed’. She needs to urgently to rethink her approach.”

This is now an incredibly serious situation. The Prime Minister’s Brexit deal has fallen at the first hurdle.

When Theresa May makes her statement to Parliament this morning she can’t stand up and say ‘nothing has changed.’ She needs to urgently to rethink her approach. https://t.co/IG0vf8LVUK

— Keir Starmer (Keir_Starmer) November 15, 2018

9.12am

Former Ukip leader Nigel Farage congratulated Mr Raab for his resignation and called for more to follow.

Well done Dominic Raab, a few more and we will be rid of this duplicitous Prime Minister.

— Nigel Farage (Nigel_Farage) November 15, 2018

9.10am

Remain-backing Conservative MP Anna Soubry said Mr Raab’s resignation marks “the end” of Mrs May’s withdrawal agreement, and called for a government of national unity.

Raab’s resignation marks the end of PMs Withdrawal Agreement. This is v serious the PM will clearly be considering her position. My own view is that we need a Govt of National Unity and we need it now.

— Anna Soubry MP (Anna_Soubry) November 15, 2018

9.05am

Health Secretary Matt Hancock refused to confirm or deny reports that he told Wednesday’s Cabinet meeting he “could not guarantee that people would not die” if no Brexit deal was agreed.

He told the Today programme he would not go into what people had said behind closed doors, but said the prospect of no deal was “not pretty” for healthcare.

Matt Hancock leaves 10 Downing StreetMatt Hancock leaves 10 Downing Street (Victoria Jones/PA)

9am

Dominic Raab has resigned as Brexit Secretary, saying he “cannot in good conscience support the terms proposed for our deal with the EU”.

Today, I have resigned as Brexit Secretary. I cannot in good conscience support the terms proposed for our deal with the EU. Here is my letter to the PM explaining my reasons, and my enduring respect for her. pic.twitter.com/tf5CUZnnUz

— Dominic Raab (DominicRaab) November 15, 2018

8.40am

Esther McVeyEsther McVey leaves her home in London (Stefan Rousseau/PA)

Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey, who was said to have argued against the Brexit agreement and called for a Cabinet vote, was tight-lipped on the matter on Thursday morning.

“Thank you and good morning,” she said as she left her London flat.

8.30am

8.15am

Shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said that Mrs May’s plan had only seven pages out of more than 500 looking at the future relationship with the EU, of which three were on trade.

He told BBC Radio 4’s Today: “There is nothing in there about a comprehensive customs union and if you look at those seven pages, it must be the first time in history that what is proposed is a trade agreement that makes it harder to trade, not easier to trade.”

8.00am

At the conclusion of the press conference in Brussels, EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier said: “This is a very important moment. What we have agreed at negotiators’ level is fair and balanced, takes into account the UK’s positions, organises the withdrawal in an orderly fashion, ensures no hard border on the island of Ireland and lays the ground for an ambitious new partnership.”

Mr Barnier said he would now travel to Strasbourg to discuss the agreement with the European Parliament, adding: “We have no time to lose.”

7.45am

Shailesh Vara has quit as Northern Ireland Minister, saying he cannot support Mrs May’s Brexit agreement, which he said “leaves the UK in a halfway house with no time limit on when we will finally be a sovereign nation”.

With much sadness and regret I have submitted my letter of resignation as a Northern Ireland Minister to the Prime Minister. A copy of my letter is attached.It has been a joy and privilege to serve in the Northern Ireland Office and I will always cherish the fondest memories. pic.twitter.com/SN8j4OwhYD

— Shailesh Vara MP (@ShaileshVara) November 15, 2018

7.30am

The European Council will hold an extraordinary summit in Brussels on November 25 to finalise the UK’s withdrawal agreement, council president Donald Tusk has announced.

Speaking alongside EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier at a press conference in Brussels, Mr Tusk said Brexit was a “lose-lose situation” for the UK and EU, and sent a message to the British people: “As much as I am sad to see you leave, I will do everything to make this farewell the least painful possible, for you and for us.”

Belgium EU BrexitEU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier delivers the draft withdrawal agreement to European Council president Donald Tusk in Brussels (Francisco Seco/AP)


#246

Well when you have fools elect Trump as President of the USA ,while fools on the other side of the Atlantic vote to withdraw from the EU, then you reap what you sow - Have no sympathy for either country.


#247

#248

So what’s the problem? Is it EU are playing hardball? Or does this draft agreement upset people because it means Britain is still tied too closely with the EU?


#249

Basically Britian wants to keep trade benefits with EU but not have to work within EU laws and regulations.

Example of cake and eating it as well !


#250

joint’s farked.

australian republic, NOW.


#251

It was pretty much a transitional arrangement to buy time.
Under the deal the UK would remain in the Customs Union - much wider than a free trade agreement- which would bind the UK to all EU rules governing the movement of goods and services, but would not allow the UK a vote on the rules. Presumably the EU rules would extend to competition policy. It would also prevent the UK from cutting trade deals with third countries.
The UK would be exempt from EU rules on the free movement of labor and persons generally.
I can understand why it does not suit the leavers or remainers , but if it were time limited it might have some merit and it also preserves the Good Friday Agreement


#252

It’s been pretty funny following it all. The Tories could save a lot of time and hassle if they just went to EU and said, “look all we won’t is for brown people to not be allowed to come here”


#253

Well, what they actually wanted was no brown people plus the Sun Never Setting On The British Empire and Winston Churchill back in charge (the good bits of Churchilll anyway, when he was heroically defying Hitler, not the bad bits when he was starving millions of Indians to death or organising disastrous invasions of Gallipoli) and The Good Old Days When Young People Showed Proper Respect and when you could get a job in the shipyards as a 15yo and work there til retirement.

They wanted to turn back time. It’s understandable, but time (and economics, and politics) doesn’t work that way.


#254

And the best thing about it is they’ve done it to themselves.


#255

How are those shows like A Place in the Winter Sun going to go, since, presumably the Poms wouldn’t have the right of free movement and purchase that they have under the EU.


#256

The sun never sets on the joint because they won’t close down that pedo paradise outpost in Pitcairn Island.


#257

They really need to go back to the people.

Ridiculous that something so significant / fundamental could be decided on a single first-past-the-post vote with such a slim margin.

I suspect the Remain vote would romp home now people have a better idea of the consequences. And the lies of Farage & co have been shown for what they are.


#258

Not sure that’s the point. You don’t just have a popular vote and then demand another because you didn’t get the result you liked.

The option to vote was there. People who felt strongly about it voted and the govt should be acting in accordance with the referendum. People wanting to stay in the EU had a chance to vote on it and elected not to.


#259

As Gnik stated the original vote was taken when there was a lot of misleading information flying around. Two and a half years later the general public is a lot more educated on the impact of Brexit. Therefore another referendum would be undertaken with everyone having a much greater understanding of what leave or remain actually means for them.

One could argue that the vote overnight clearly showed that parliament can’t agree on what they actually want. Therefore they could just stop wasting time by throwing it back to the people.

As you say a lot of potential “remainers” failed to vote last time. My understanding was that this was on the basis they just couldn’t see the vote going against them. If another vote was held I think it would be close to 100% voter turnout. The previous vote only had a 72% turnout.


#260

What Redbull said.

The whole approach has been a major stuff-up IMO. A single first-past-the-post referendum was grossly insufficient for something so significant.

The model followed by NZ for their flag was much better, in which case the Brexit referendums would have looked more like this:

  • Referendum 1 - are you annoyed enough with the EU that we should look at options for change? Or should we leave it as-is?
  • Referendum 2 - now we are better informed and understand the detail & consequences of each option, which do you prefer? Or should we leave it as is?