Brexit


#543

Good to see you using platitudes rather than arguing any of his points. Congrats on strawman debating.

Why on earth would the EU change because of a hard Brexit? A hard Brexit will cause them a small amount of short term damage, and a lot of long term benefit. The financial centres in Germany and France would be celebrating. Ireland would be really the only ones hurting long term. The UK has been quite lucky that the EU has been relatively kind in many of their negotiating stances.

And before you use @Humble_Minion’s points, a number of those don’t apply since they’re issues with the euro, not the EU.

As someone who has lived in the UK, I would most certainly argue that the EU is fine. Does it have areas to fix? Sure. Which country doesn’t? The EU has created the third largest trading block in the world, can influence events throughout the world, has seamless internal travel and trade, not a single internal war (as you agree) since WWII, and has enhanced the quality standards of things like food production and equal rights.

Frankly, your statements feel like the strawmen that the Leave campaign used, which were frankly mostly blaming the EU for things the UK had responsibility for. But then, that’s not to be surprising when for 20 years UK politicians have used the EU to blame for UK issues. Its surprising how many British voters think the EU was responsible for the UK’s austerity budgets.


#544

Okay, well it’s clear that we disagree.


#545

Saw that last night. Epic. Specially the Florist…


#546

Ants nailed it in his post - You combine that with many English people feeling they aren’t European and then its easy to blame things on the EU.


#547

I’ve worked closely with EU institutions and Member States over a long period and have worked in Brussels.
Joining the EU was about the best thing that ever happened to Ireland as it ceased to be a vassal state of the UK.
The smaller Member States welcomed UK accession as they saw it as balancing German and French dominance.
In many respects they were disappointed. Every Member State will seek to advance its own interests , but some will also see collective action as advancing the national interest. The UK did not meet expectations as it did not share the vision of Europe of the continental members .
Successive UK governments have misrepresented the benefits of EU membership, treating it as a whipping boy. Now industry and citizens of the UK are just finding out that the considerable benefits of EU membership will be lost to them. They will also be denied access to EU funds for matters such as regional assistance and agriculture and will not be able to influence EU standards. They will lose the automatic right to work and live in the EU. They will be forced to compete for funding from the UK budget and there will need to be a vastly larger bureaucracy to establish and implement mechanisms that are either undertaken by the Brussels bureaucracy or which have not been needed because of the common market.
I get annoyed at unfounded assertions of EU corruption and a bloated bureaucracy and the use of a veto. Veto powers are limited ( mostly in regard to some treaties).


#548

Three Pro-EU 'tory pollies have now also quit and defected to a small party created by the eight labour pollies who defected earlier this week! The divisions in the ranks of the major players are growing as the deadline approaches, and it’s interesting that Brexit is now uniting political foes.


#549

and Big A, what you left out is that all those jobs in UK that the Polish Guest workers are doing will just not be done as the Pommies refused to do them in the past, so why will that change. A bit like picking fruit here in Oz, very few workers are locals as it is too hard especially for the rubbish wages.


#550

UK… just fark off already… how hard is it to pull out?

(Says the guy with 4 kids)


#551

So, this week it seems that Corbyn has changed stance to pushing for a second referendum. Or at least, that they will support it.

All I can say is about ■■■■■■ time. The 49% of voters who were against Brexit have been completely ignored for the best bit of three years now. The Tory party has clearly failed to deliver a Brexit in line with what was promised to voters before the original vote. Between that, the lies in the original campaign and the question marks over the legality of some Leave campaign donations, it is staggering that a second vote isn’t seen as the only option. Without having one, Britain will remain split regardless of what happens next.

That said, it is nowhere near certain a second vote will occur.

It also sounds like Corbyn will be setting out what his own deal parameters with the EU would be. Not sure of the point given the timelines, but will be interesting to see if he includes any Pink Unicorns. And of course, parliament has to reject this before Labour will push for a second referendum.

We’ll see. Corbyn throughout has implied he’s a fan of leaving Europe. Is this for real, or just smoke to stop more people defecting from Labour?

This article clearly has a bias, but is interesting nonetheless: May and Corbyn have failed us on Brexit again. MPs must back a people’s vote

On the May front
There are now question marks whether even if parliament accepted May’s deal, if there is time to pass the legislation that would be required to avoid a hard Brexit. Oops.

This blog piece seems to set out what May is trying to achieve nicely: May’s Article 50 extension is a trick to take us to the real cliff edge


#552

Abbott’s got it all solved and reckons Brexit is no big inconvenience to the UK.

I’ll need to track down the article. Saw it on Twitter. Think it was in the Spectator.


#553

And I thought UK was a democracy where majority ruled.


#554

With no compulsory voting, it’s arguable about what defines a majority.


#555

Don’t think so, probably harder to argue that our system is democratic


#556

lol, another vote will still leave the UK split you know or doesn’t it matter if the people who’s wishes are being ignored are the ones who you don’t agree with? 48.1% of voters voted the stay in the referendum & the most recent polls still suggest 47% would still vote to leave.


#557

#558

Astonishing.

It emerged Monday senior MPs from her Conservative Party were urging her to delay the vote to save the government another humiliating defeat. They instead want a motion to be debated that would show the EU what sort of Brexit would be acceptable to MPs.

They STILL don’t get it!!! They’ve carried on from day 1 as if the EU want them to leave and they’re doing the EU a favour in doing so. Lol, absolutely bizarre.


#559

If Brexit goes through, does this mean more episodes of Grange Hill will be made, Benny Hill’s frozen corpse will be revived and ultimately the return of British Leyland!?!


#560

Of course. And Lucas “Prince of Darkness” Electrics will boom back to life, illuminating the way and supplying English industry with…, err…,
well actually nothing but unending problems and probably very little illumination.

"June 23rd, 2028. The new British PM arrived at No10 today, albeit somewhat late as the shiny new Austin Kimberly broke down due to suspected ignition problems. Four people were injured on the oil slicks left by the Matchless police motorbikes.

The new PM has promised her first point of business is the long awaited Trade Agreement with Russia, which should open the way to importing the more reliable Lada car range, which motoring enthusiasts have been looking forward to since 2019. The trade minister , Tim Brooke Taylor, left for Moscow yesterday, resplendent in Union Jack cape."


#561

If we haven’t already got enough shows about trains: exotic train rides across the world as described by an ex Tory, obscure branch lines with leaves on the tracks by Paul Merton, the bloke who played Baldric doing a historical take on trains in the industrial revolution. Post Brexit push through, there shall be double the amount.


#562

They’re also rebooting the lovely and quaint “Escape to the Country” as “Escape from the Country”.

"Meet Helen and Michael. They’ve been in a small semi-attached in Hammersmith for the past 21 years but are now looking for a change. They’re hoping to stowe away on a Norwegian frigate in Dover and restart in the improved economy and climes of the Lofoten Islands ".