Brexit


#643

Some of the things the Poms would be unhappy with are that English isn’t the only accepted language, the currency is not the pound, that beer is sometimes served cold and egg and chips is not the recognised national dish of all European countries.


#644

I know your only jesting but the currency is an absolute non negotiable I’d say.


#645

As to Parliament, I imagine that there have been behind the scenes discussions on either:
Cosmetic wording adjustments to certain EU/UK documents, with an EU nod that it would not block the changes;
Or
A unilateral accompanying “ expectations” style statement by the UK, with an EU nod that the EU will neither approve nor reject.
May then presents to Parliament as a revised position.


#646

Yes,. There’ll be some very minor changes that May will then present as “substantial” in order to put it before the house again.

The EU simply can’t and won’t budge on anything truly different.


#647

they have until april 12 or they will have to accept a longer extension. the media loves to pretend a hard brexit is still an option. The longer extension means taking part in the european elections which will be run on brexit and give a mandate to have a second referendum which the brexiteers have said they will boycott so case closed!


#648

So what if they boycotted it ? If there was another referendum they’d lose, and have to stay in the EU.

I’m fed up with hearing all these Little Englanders whinge about the EU. England voted to leave, as did Wales (because of all the English immigrants living there — the real Welsh wanted to stay). Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay.

If it’s a United Kingdom, as the English love to trumpet, the vote should have been taken on a country by country basis — but it wasn’t, because the English want to hold onto the last vestiges of their defunct English Empire. While there are more Englanders than Scots, the Tories will insist on maintaining one-person-one-vote across the entire United Kingdom, instead of on a state-by-state basis.

This very fact tells you that the so-called “United Kingdom” is nothing but the English Empire writ small, and that they consider Scotland (and Northern Ireland) as mere vassal statelets. Scotland only exists for the grouse moors and salmon fishing and English military bases, along with North Sea oil and fishng rights. Northern Ireland only exists as a means of controlling events overseas on the island of Ireland, a place to train their shock troops, and an excuse to claiman extra few thousands of square miles of the Atlantic, for fishing rights, oil rights and military exercises (Ireland being seen by the Tories as the “back door” to England).

If the English want to leave the EU, good riddance to them — they’ve been nothing but whingeing malcontents from the day they joined — but they can leave Scotland and Northern Ireland behind them.

Yes, that would mean the breaking up of the so-called United Kingdom, but if that price is too high for them to pay, the alternative is obvious — stay and shut the fück up.

Oh, and if they decide to stay, they can show willing and intergrate fully at last, by replacing their devalued imperial pound with the Euro.

For the present, there is only one real course of action for May to take: go to a general Election, then have a second referendum, on the valid grounds that there have been too many changes to their relationship with the rest of the EU, and too many lies were told by the pro-Brexiteers during and since the original campaign, for the original Referendum to have any of its scant validity remaining.

May is desperately trying to avoid that, because she’d lose. So the circus continues.


#649

A wonderful take on the situation from a French minster.


#650

A hard, no-deal Brexit IS still a distinctly possible outcome I reckon. I think it’d be cataclysmic, but I think there’s enough people in the conservative party in particular who are deluded enough to think otherwise that it could well happen.

May is a Remainer hostage to the Brexiters in her own party. Corbyn is head of a party who overwhelmingly wants to remain but who is personally a Brexiter (who believes against all the evidence that a perfectly good leave agreement could be negotiated if only he were in charge). And due to internal party rules, neither can be removed from their party leaderships involuntarily.

Fkg mess.


#651

Don’t forget that Rees-Mogg is a financier who specialises in making money from disasters. Well and truly in his financial interest if it costs the UK a motza.

Sometimes known as the Minister for the 18th Century.


#652

Well said, Perce.

Just as a further example, It is a disgrace that the Poms campaigned so hard against the vote for Scottish independence. “You don’t need to be independent! We will look after you! We will do the right thing!”

Then rode roughshod over Scotland’s desire to remain in the EU. “Fark what you think! You can’t leave us! We need your gas and fishing rights!”


#653

UK voter turnout for the 2014 EU Parliament elections was 35.6%, below the EU average of around 42%.
UK voter turnout for the Brexit referendum was 72.2%.
As an alternative to the raw majority basis of the Brexit referendum the UK could have provided for a two tier system - raw majority of votes plus majority of counties or statistical regions used for seats in the EU Parliament.
Some reports suggest that a Remain majority vote in a second referendum would not be a given.


#654

Won’t happen in a million years.


#655

Nor should they, imo.


#656

Denmark and Ireland are constitutionally required to hold referendums on membership of some EU treaties. Denmark’s initial No vote on the Maastricht Treaty was overturned by a second referendum, with the same outcome in the Irish second referendums on the Nice and Lisbon Treaties.
In all cases, the Yes campaign was reframed, assisted in some instances by additional EU legal guarantees.
The UK secured a lot of special concessions from the EU - including a budget contribution corrector, the right to defer provisions relating to the free movement of labour and residence for some newer Member States.
It also used the opt out provision of treaties such as those related to the Euro and the Schenghen visa free zone.
The EU probably also turned a blind eye to the bilateral UK/ Ireland Common Travel Area, which would appear to discriminate against other EU members.
Ironically, Northern Irelanders - who automatically have the right to Irish citizenship- would enjoy post Brexit rights of free movement , residence and labour in the EU , which would not be available to the English, Scots and Welsh ( unless they have dual citizenship with an EU member.


#657

Can you be a UK (Northern Ireland) + Ireland dual citizen? Seems a bit contrary!


#658

Confirmed in the Good Friday Agreements - people born in Northern Ireland can be British, Irish or both. The UK can strip British citizenship of dual citizens under public interest provisions - do hope that does not extend to biting another player on the footy field in a third country.


#659

This things gonna be like Y2K I reckon. Nothing will happen, they won’t leave and everyone will just forget it ever happened.


#660

As I understand it, if Parliament does not approve the final Article 50 withdrawal agreement under the terms of the Great Repeal Bill, there is the option of the UK unilaterally revoking Article 50, presumably through Parliamentary legislative processes.


#661

hard brexit is not an outcome that is possible. they voted against it so if it comes to the crunch they stay! however they will get a longer etension as the EU has stated so there really isnt any crunch coming either. its just a beat u/p that hard brexist exists


#662

Some reports suggest that a Remain majority vote in a second referendum would not be a given.

not sure who reports this but clearly it is only to sell clicks or papers. as brexiteers will boycott because even they know they cant win