Burning Jealousy - 11th in 2018 to flag in 2019

A small part of me wonders whether the saga-affected players have it in them the true desire needed to win a flag after the life changing events they faced.

Not hard to see why they’d just consider it a job after what they faced.

Its that all in mentality that won the Tigers a flag and Pies currently look the goods. Have we got it in us?

Sorry to disillusion you but their employer has paid them and they’re now in Las Vegas getting p1ssed and enjoying time away from “work”.:roll_eyes:

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Yeah all correct.

The most infuriating part of the first half of the season was that it looks like, the issue was entirely personnel issues in the coaching structure. Which is simply not good enough.

For a club that has been pathetic for 16 years the supporters have every right to be angry… when the issue was coaching structures. Not the players.

I was furious when people within the club, had a crack at the supporters, saying that expectations of success are unrealistic because of ‘who the club is’.

I’m sorry but no. F*ck off. No.
New people at the club have no right to be telling supporters to be patient. No right at all. How many clubs have dropped down the ladder, rebuilt, came back up, got top 4 and won a premiership… all while we’re still sitting middle of the table.

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So tired of the ‘fifteen years’ thing.
It’s completely irrelevant.
What Sheedy and Knights and Hird and Bomber were doing and what sort of player Mark friggin’ McVeigh was and who was President has nothing to do with how we played this year.

And if it does, then why would you bother?
It’s a pissy attitude and I dislike it intensely.

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So you don’t think we have deficiencies in tackling, commitment, and winning hard balls? Now I’m not sure what stats you have but for tackles laid…

We’re ranked 10th for tackles laid this year.
We were ranked 15th for tackles laid in 2017.
We were ranked 17th for tackles laid in 2016.
We were ranked 12th for tackles laid in 2015.
We were ranked 10th for tackles laid in 2014.
We were ranked 12th for tackles laid in 2013.
We were ranked 12th for tackles laid in 2012.

Note: 6 of top 8 ranked teams made finals. We had a guy break the tackling record this year in Devon Smith and we still couldn’t get near the top 8 for tackles count… and we also had a guy in Zach Merrett finish 14th in the league for total tackles and STILL couldn’t break collectively as a team top 8 for tackles.

Now, lets look at clearances
We finished 13th this year
We finished 14th in 2017
We finished 17th in 2016
We finished 16th in 2015
We finished 12th in 2014
We finished 12th in 2013
We finished 15th in 2012

Note: 7 of the top 8 ranked teams made finals this year

Now lets look at stoppages
We finished 14th this year
We finished 17th in 2017
We finished 15th in 2016
We finished 16th in 2015
We finished 14th in 2014
We finished 14th in 2013
We finished 15th in 2012

Note: 6 of top 8 ranked teams made finals

Now lets look at contested possessions
Finished 13th this year
Finished 9th in 2017
Finished 18th in 2016
Finished 11th in 2015
Finished 11th in 2014
Finished 12th in 2013
Finished 10th in 2012

Note: Top 7 ranked teams all made finals

Now let’s look at 1 %'ers
We finished 15th this year
We finished 10th in 2017
We finished 12th in 2016
We finished 11th in 2015
We finished 13th in 2014
We finished 14th in 2013
We finished 14th in 2012

Note: Rich/Coll/GWS/Haw made up the top 5 this year.

Anyone wondering why we can’t make top 4 must only look so far, we lack an ability to play hard, tough, tackling football. Also remember we argubably had the best inside footballer in Jobe Watson in thoise years, what does it say about the rest? But what are we good at you ask?

Uncontested Possessions
8th this year
3rd in 2017
7th in 2016
6th in 2015
3rd in 2014
8th in 2013

PLEASE nobody tell me we are good for inside players and are a good tackling team. We are a SOFT, outside teams that plays razzle dazzle exciting football but isn’t quite willing to play hardball yet. Strong, hard teams win premierships. Soft, outside teams hold our ■■■■■ are celebrate a good few months of football to end a year.

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The one thing Collingwood’s surprise win over Richmond could teach us, is, never get too far ahead of yourself because you might be caught with a face full of egg.

2019 is a new season full of possibilities. Will we? Could we? Who knows!

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The same collingwood that almost got turned over by Freo in the last round.

…and go back to the drawing board when the rule changes are implemented for 2019, causing Clubs to alter the type of players they need, relook at kicks v handballs under gaining territory changes etc.
Different Clubs will surface with the better mix of players and game style each time the AFL stuffs around with the rules. Don’t assume we’ll be the team that is best placed!

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…and some supporters say the game is not about statistics!:roll_eyes:

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Richmond and bulldogs

Bulldogs had bont and argaubly mcrae
Richmond had Dusty and arguably cotch/ prestia

Hawks 3 peat had Mitchell, Burgoyne, Smith, Rioli and Lewid all argably in their prime, and you could add Hodge to that

Sydney before them had Hannebury when he was good, Parker, Jack, Kennedy and arguably O’Keefe/ McVeigh

I honestly don’t think the Hawks through that three peat period would have been able to beat the dogs/ Richmond in their flag years. The game has changed. It’s not always about beating your midfield opponents, as much as it is about the whole midfield cohort just smothering them to death, and then letting the outside runners split the game open.

3?
West Coast
Collingwood
Richmond

Male bonding. Important. :grin:

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Seems like you’re looking at totals: which includes finals.

Unsurprisingly, the sides that have played more games have accrued more of all these stats.

5 of the top 8 tackling teams by raw averages (we were 8th) made finals.
4 of the top 8 clearance teams by raw averages (we were 9th) made finals
5 of the top 8 CP teams on raw averages (we were 11th) made finals
4 of the top 8 stoppage clearance teams - is this what you mean by stoppages??? - by averages (we were 12th) made finals
4 of the top 8 1%er teams (we were 13th) by raw averages made finals

So there’s slight correlations to all of those stats, but no strong correlation to any one of them - as I say, umpteen ways to win or lose. Our ranking in them doesn’t go close to painting a picture of a skilful fast side that gets creamed inside.
As you probably saw, and seemingly forgot to post, we were the number two centre clearance team (on raw averages) in the entire league. So we can’t be that bad in there, and we’re not. I think what the differential between centre clearance numbers and overall clearance numbers says is we’re not particularly deep through there, once it’s a free for all at a secondary bounce or boundary throw-in, and it’s 10 guys not 4, we weren’t as strong. Which is an area we need to work on.

But raw averages don’t tell you the whole picture anyway. A game with 50 ball-ups is going to have more clearances to both sides than a game with 30 ball-ups: but you’re in a much better position winning 20 of the 30, than 25 of 50, even though the raw average will say otherwise. And so on and so forth with every stat - eg close in, wet games are gojng to have more handballs and tackles and CP than fast, flowing games. Last year we consciously chose to avoid boundary throw ins, and both our SCL and opponent SCL numbers were off the bottom of the chart - the numpty view is that we were being creamed there, the big picture is we were minimising those contests completely.
Which is why team vs opponent differentials can give you a different view to raw numbers.

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Same. Those 84 & 85 sides were stacked with hard men. I think I read in Glory & Fame something about us being the only team the Dawks genuinely feared.

93 was special, as it was a bunch of super talented kids (with a few senior boys) playing freely. My fav flag - gee, I was blind after that granny.

2000 - what needs to be said? Blend of hard and highly skilled players.

Our list is solid and here’s hoping they return with a burning desire for success (and are prepared to put in the hard yards to achieve it).

I think you are right on one level, the game doesn’t need anything specific anymore, less talented teams do win because pressure can stifle talent, but if talent can’t be stifled then it wins.

What is non negotiable is absolute commitment to pressure and playing as well drilled team.

If you can do that with talented mids and talented talls you can beat teams that don’t provided it comes with the pressure that a lot of talented players don’t think they need to bring.

What is an issue is that with 18 sides and only 44 on the list, getting a side that is the complete package and can keep enough of a balanced side fit and on the field, means that a cobbled together side that can smother talent is often the best side by the last day of the season.

I’m curious with the rule changes how much more running into space and successful leading will take place. We could be very well placed to take advantage of this, but we will still need to be better drilled and better skilled to pull it off and we still will need to be able to maintain crazy commitment because this is becoming the non negotiable point of difference which will always be able to bring talent back to the field, but bring it all and that will be the ultimate point of difference.

If we can keep the right players fit, I think 2019 could be special provided we can harness the new level of mental fitness that is required.

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Reverted to bad habits once they thought the game was iced, perhaps? Dunno, but it happens in games.

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Mindfulness is everything in those one off moments which creates miracles.

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2nd worst in the league for clangers for and against. Right between the Suns and the Blues.

Outright last for opponent clangers
(Top 8, just, for least clangers by us)

It’s the only area we’re really down near the bottom.

So, as I’ve been saying, that’s where we sucked the worst. Causing and creating pressure. Not inside midfield.

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Friggin’ THIS!!!

And now I feel emboldened to make my stupid boring old man post.
As long as we can’t be arsed putting our hands up on the mark in our forwardline, and as long as we have coaches that don’t care about that, then it doesn’t matter who plays for us.

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