Climate Change in Australia (Part 1)

Plato & Aristotle would be rolling in their graves.

It really does neatly capture the rather childish argument of the dorks who espouse “all you need to do is just think about it and you realise it makes no sense.”

Finkels report is just a brilliant glimpse of the obvious.

Do you really need to be that clever to conclude that once a coal fired power station reaches its use-by date that it will be replaced by the cheapest option. It is call free market economics.

So 30 years in the future when the newest coal and gas fired stations are redundant, what will the cheapest be ? Good chance that the development of fusion technology will replace all the current modes.

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Fusion tech is pretty speculative at the production/cost level at any point. Solar and battery tech should be well into it’s next age by then though. You’re absolutely right about replacing coal with the cheapest option though. I find the schadenfreude particularly interesting when members of the LNP try to sell the idea of building obsolete, expensive replacements right on the back of trying to slash costs all the way from your sick grandma to your kid’s education. You could almost see the sweat beading on Trumble’s forehead while he was talking about “clean coal” power plants while the coal lobby were holding the whip in the background.

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Fusion is the silver bullet of power generation, but it’s still a long, long, long way off. It certainly won’t be shouldering a meaningful percentage of the power gen load in a mere 30 years. 50 years would be a very optimistic timeline in my opinion. Far as i know, there hasn’t yet been an artifical self-sustaining fusion reaction achieved anywhere yet, much less a reaction that generates enough surplus energy that it can be used for generation.

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California is in a desert and has experienced 400 year droughts in the past, are you saying CO2 caused them?

sorfed roberts strikes again.

Never mind, your greenie Marxist mate Finkel is here to save you with his modelling. Raise the renewables to 42% and it will reduce your electricity bills by $90 per year. This is really good, if you have an $1,800 annual electricity bill now by 2038 your electricity will be free.
It is a bit vague on whether or not that will apply from the current bill or next year when it goes up 10-18% due to coal fired power stations closing down.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/power-generator-maintenance-banned-mothballed-plants-forced-open-to-save-summer-power-supply/news-story/351f929eff84bc168ca0cd74cc7f9b43

Just for reference purposes, pre-rise prices with South Australians current 42% renewable energy just in case there is any dispute in the future:

South Australia Energy Pricing
Prices effective 23 January 2017.

Residential Electricity Rates* Unit Alinta Energy Standing Tariffs
GENERAL USAGE RATES ex GST incl GST
First 3.2877 kWh/day c/kWh 35.84 39.424
Next 7.6712 kWh/day c/kWh 37.30 41.030
Next 16.4384 kWh/day c/kWh 41.03 45.133
Next 27.3973 kWh/day c/kWh 44.48 48.928
Balance c/kWh 44.48 48.928
Daily Supply Charge (Discount does not apply to the daily supply charge) cents/day cents/day 89.24 98.164
OFF PEAK CONTROLLED LOAD RATES^ Unit ex GST incl GST
First 21.9178 kWh/day c/kWh 20.23 22.253
Balance c/kWh 20.63 22.693
DEMAND USAGE CHARGES
Usage† of: Unit ex GST incl GST
Anytime usage c/kWh 32.80 36.080
Supply Charge cents/day 32.12 35.332
Capacity Demand Charge Summer (4pm-9pm) c/kW/day 42.75 47.025
Capacity Demand Charge Non-Summer (4pm-9pm) c/kW/day 17.78 19.558
Gas1

GENERAL USAGE RATES Unit ex GST incl GST
First 4,500 MJ per quarter c/MJ 3.61 3.971
Balance c/MJ 1.87 2.057
DAILY SUPPLY CHARGE Unit ex GST incl GST
Discount does not apply to the daily supply charge cents/day 63.85 70.235
Fair Deal 32 Electricity Details

Benefits
Pay on time discount: 32% off our published Standing Tariff usage charges for the electricity you have consumed subject to you paying each electricity account on time and in full. The pay on time discount applies to usage only and does not include supply charges or other charges payable under this energy plan.
24 Month benefit period: 24 months from the commencement date. The rates are based on Alinta Energy’s published Standing Tariffs which can change in accordance with applicable law and may change during the 24 month benefit period. At the end of the 24 month benefit period the benefits will end but the agreement will continue. We may offer you, in accordance with our market offer terms and conditions and as set in the offer, new benefits for an additional 24 month benefit period. If we do not, you will be required to pay Alinta Energy’s then applicable published Standing Tariffs with no pay on time discount.
Term: No term.
Exit fees: No exit fees.
Payment method: Telephone or internet (credit card), direct debit, monthly payment smoothing via direct debit, BPAY, in person or by mail. Further details set out on your account.
Billing frequency: Quarterly.
Billing method: If you have provided an email address the accounts will be sent to that email address. If not they will be sent by post to the billing address provided.
Cooling off period: 10 business days.
Disconnection/reconnection fee: Disconnection fees reflect the actual costs charged to us by the distributor.

Flat rate - $38 inc. GST

Reconnection fees reflect the actual costs charged to us by the distributor.

Flat rate - $38 inc. GST

After hours flat rate - $85 inc. GST
Additional information: We reserve the right to and will notify you if we change or impose additional fees or charges in relation to your energy supply. Fees and charges charged by the distributor are published on the SA Power Networks website and may change from time to time.
Fair Deal Gas Details

Benefits
Conditional discount: 10% off our published Standing Tariff usage charges for the gas you have consumed subject to you paying each gas account on time and in full. The pay on time discount applies to usage only and does not include supply charges or other charges payable under this energy plan. The discount off gas usage charges is only available if you have a Fair Deal energy plan that covers electricity.
24 month fixed benefit period: 24 months from the commencement date. The rates are based on Alinta Energy’s published Standing Tariffs which can change in accordance with applicable law and may change during the 24 month fixed benefit period. At the end of the 24 month fixed benefit period the benefits will end but the agreement will continue. We may offer you, in accordance with our market offer terms and conditions and as set in the offer, new benefits for an additional 24 month fixed benefit period. If we do not, you will be required to pay Alinta Energy’s then applicable published Standing Tariffs with no discount.
Term: No term.
Exit fees: No exit fees.
Payment method: Telephone or internet (credit card), direct debit, monthly payment smoothing via direct debit, BPAY, in person or by mail. Further details set out on your account.
Billing frequency: Quarterly.
Billing method: If you have provided an email address the accounts will be sent to that email address. If not they will be sent by post to the billing address provided.
Cooling off period: 10 business days.
Disconnection/reconnection fee: Disconnection fees reflect the actual costs charged to us by the distributor.

Flat rate - $80 inc. GST

Reconnection fees reflect the actual costs charged to us by the distributor.

Flat rate - $80 inc. GST
Additional information: We reserve the right to and will notify you if we change or impose additional fees or charges in relation to your energy supply. Fees and charges charged by the distributor are published on the Australian Gas Networks website and may change from time to time.
Small Business Prices

Electricity

Electricity Rates - 126 & 126M Alinta Energy Standing Offer
GENERAL USAGE CHARGES ex GST incl GST
First 27.3973 kWh/day (c/kWh) 42.50 46.750
Thereafter (c/kWh) 43.04 47.344
Daily Supply Charge (c/day) 94.17 103.587
OFF PEAK CONTROLLED LOAD RATES^
First 21.9178 kWh/day 19.71 21.681
Balance 21.20 23.320
Electricity Rates - 126 & 126M Alinta Energy Standing Offer
DEMAND CONSUMPTION CHARGES ex GST incl GST
Anytime Usage (c/kWh) 30.98 34.078
Supply Charge (c/day) 86.17 94.787
Capacity Demand Charge Summer (4pm-9pm)(c/kVA/day) 49.11 54.021
Capacity Demand All Year Shoulder (12pm-4pm)(c/kVA/day) 24.36 26.796
Notes: Summer rates apply 1 November - 31 March inclusive. All year shoulder rates apply 1 July - 31 June inclusive.
Electricity Rates - 128 & 128M Alinta Energy Standing Offer
GENERAL USAGE CHARGES ex GST incl GST
For all consumption (c/kWh) 48.73 53.603
Daily Supply Charge (c/day) 99.12 109.032
OFF PEAK - 9pm to 7 am weekdays and all weekend ACST
For all consumption (c/kWh) 28.65 31.515
OFF PEAK CONTROLLED LOAD RATES
First 21.9178 kWh/day (c/kWh) 19.71 21.681
Balance (c/kWh) 21.20 23.320

Solar Feed-In Tariff Options
TARIFF TYPE Price (exc. GST)
Customer Group 1 44.00 cents per kWh exported
Customer Group 2 44.00 cents per kWh exported
Customer Group 3 44.00 cents per kWh exported
Minimum retailer payment 6.80 per kWh exported

Variations in tariffs and other charges

Our Standing Tariffs are varied from time to time in accordance with the procedures in the National Energy Retail Law and are published on our website. If we change our Standing Tariffs, we will give you notice of any variations as soon as practicable and in any event no later than your next bill or in accordance with any applicable laws and codes.

We may impose an additional charge if there is, or we fairly and reasonably expect there will be, an increase in any of our environmental, market, metering, network and regulatory costs, if that cost increase is specifically or otherwise attributable to you or to the energy we sell you. The amount of the additional charge will be no more than what is required to recover such an increase in costs. There will be no additional charge to the extent that we recover a cost increase through variations in our tariffs.

Definitions
Daily supply charge: a charge that applies for supplying electricity and gas to your premises for each day of the billing period, regardless of how much electricity and gas you use.
kWh: ‘kWh’ stands for kilowatt hour and is the unit of measurement for your electricity account.
MJ: ‘MJ’ stands for megajoule and is the unit of measurement for your gas bill.

†Daily usage is the total electricity usage for the period to which an account relates, divided by the number of days in that period.
*Alinta Energy Residential Electricity Rates apply to all usage unless Off Peak Controlled Load Rates apply.
^Off Peak Controlled Load Rates apply for electricity used in permanently installed storage water heaters with a rated delivery of not less than 125 litres, storage space heaters and other approved thermal storage applications during hours which are fixed from time to time with control by a time switch or other means.
1Gas supply is available in the Adelaide Metro area and excludes the following postcodes: 5131, 5132, 5133, 5134, 5136, 5137, 5138, 5139, 5140, 5150, 5152, 5153, 5154, 5155, 5156, 5171, 5172, 5174, 5201, 5231, 5232, 5234, 5240, 5241, 5244, 5422, 5501

Have a good read, do your calculations and the perhaps some of you university educated geniuses out there can tell me how much industry is SA going to attract with a 52.07/KwH rate (close to if not the highest the world). Then you can move on to the affordability for pensioners, dole recipients working families that aren’t sponging off the taxpayer et. etc. Not that the fate of the working poor worries fanatics.

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Doubt it, it after construction is finished it would be pretty low on the jobs-to-GDP ratio (maintenance… and…?), and the jobs there are would be pretty specialised, and by definition FIFO. Hard to see it having an effect on Gippy itself.

Does sorfed realise that there are only about 20 LNP MPs against the Finkel findings? It’s why there are already whispers about party fractures. Everyone wants this except for the far right of the LNP. coal miners and denier kooks.

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Lord sorfington.

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For hensworth he shall be known

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I didn’t know you were sitting in on the party room debate.

I would argue nobody wants it save for rich white lefties or students that still live with their parents who can afford any power price hike.

Labor and the Greens once again sacrificing the people they are supposed to care about so they can appear to be doing something - when actually what they will be achieving is a reduction of 2/10ths of bugger all. But for these left it’s all about the appearance.

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You realise this is an independent report from the chief scientist and was agreed on as an independent review by COAG leaders, right? Not a Labor/green conspiracy.

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C’mon HMG, … we all know anything to do with this stuff is a Green Left conspiracy.

I mean, . they just have so much money & power, not to mention media influence with all the newspapers, & radio & TV stations they own, … that they can brainwash us all & we don’t even realise it’s happening.

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Apparently they manipulated the selection of a Marxist posing as a chief scientist into a COAG meeting and then brainwashed them all, yes.

The mental gymnastics it takes to be a denier…

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EFA

I wasn’t talking about the report rather the fact that the Labor Left and the Greens don’t think the report goes far enough.

Of course this means that the only people to suffer will be the battlers and employers who can least afford power increases but who cares right - important thing is to appear to be doing something.

Just scrap the whole debate. Nobody will ever be happy and what Australia does or doesn’t do has no impact on whatsoever.

Average people ( and no that does not mean students and inner city lawyers or private school educated Greens) are sick to death of this debate when there are far more important things going on in the world around them.

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WTF are you dribbling about?

Now that’s irony …

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