Climate Change in Australia


That will do wonders for future investment in Australia.
Right little Commo aren’t you.

Does that include the Union superannuation assets belonging to the working class?

You are an absolute gold plated A grade fuck wit.


Stuff that . PV panels don’t charge your Powerwall when Irma or Harvey come to call. I think i’ll stick with my Gentech 6.0Kw / 15 amp generator. $1400 and works like a dream.


Not sure if serious?

You realise when Irma or Harvey visit they don’t need to charge already charged batteries, … right??:face_with_raised_eyebrow:


It takes a next level munted ■■■■ to come into a climate change thread and post about the benefits of dirty power generation after two successive cat 5 hurricanes.


Very funny that you made the link at the end to climate change. The sky is falling!


Well Mr sorfed, you and Mr Wolf are ranting about Government needing to fix your alleged power generation problem when they don’t even own any of the infrastructure. You think that is is the Government who is responsible for supply, while supporting them selling it off to their Corporate mates, who magically were going to cut prices and still gouge profit.

Perhaps you should think about where the issue lies; the owners who will not invest in new coal power stations or repair old ones because it is not economic, and who rely on Government subsidy before it will invest in renewables. Perhaps Communism is the only viable option, at least there would be a decision made. And the workers would need super as the State provide all, taking it from ■■■■■ like you.

And I may be a ■■■■■■■, but surely you will do us a favour and die soon or is that story more of your bullshit.


Admit it Bacchus, Sorfed is one of your ex-wives, right?


a real possibility, as they were dead-set moronic ##############, ##########, ###########, ########## as well.


Look, it’s captain google.


I’m not in the industry either but I have an applied chemistry degree along with recording arts and also financial planning so i’m a bit of an oddball. I like science and learning about tech.

I do get a lot of my research and information online but I also tend to go to the source and dig along further from there.

I don’t know as much about climate science (you’ve probably noticed I don’t do the debates as other do) but I do like the technological side of things combined with the economical side of things.

If you want a basic place to start you can start with They always list their sources and references so you can follow up on it.


Just a question on this as I don’t own a generator, but to attach it to your house which has mains, don’t you need an electrician to hook it up and a few other bits and bobs so you don’t feed the power back onto the mains and electrecute people working to repair the power that might have gone off? Or is it really plug and play?


Another $15 million pissed up against the wall by the green blob.

And no, it wasn’t bullshit. 3 days in Knox Private, transferred to St V’s Private, 6 days under observation , hearter, resurrection, BiV ICD implant 1 day in ICU and a further 5 days of observation.
If you want to call me a liar perhaps we could have a small wager on it, say $50k.

Communism? Because it works so well in Cuba and North Korea?


You require a change over switch to be installed to isolate the house/origin system from the generator system so only one source can be used at a time…Definitely get an electrical engineer to look at your requirements and get a good electrician to do the work. Not a job for the bloke next door with a pair of pliers.


AFR waxing lyrical about the fact that Oz lithium and copper shares are going through the roof with worldwide demand. Lucky we have diesel powered trucks and shovels to keep us going until Elon gets his act together.
BTW hurricanes have happened before, look up Galveston 1900 and Miami 1926. The trouble with todays youth is if it didn’t happen in their lifetime it has never happened…


$15 million?


You really have no conception of what a tiny chickenfeed amount that this is in the context of power generation, do you?

Let’s talk about the ever-so-topical Liddell coal power station, for comparison.

In 2014 the NSW govt privatised Liddell, after spending hundreds of millions (I haven’t been able to find a more precise number) upgrading it to make it a more attractive sale. It was sold to AGL for ~$1.55 billion as part of a package that included the newer Bayswater coal plant and concessional coal contracts. AGLs annual report that year valued the coal contracts at $768million and the Bayswater plant at $780 million (this was seen as a bargain, in terms of $ per MW). It valued the Liddell part of the transaction at a grand total of nothing.

AGL, between 2014 and now, has sunk $150 million into refurbishing and maintaining Liddell. Mind you, none of this helped it be actually useful - it’s so unreliable that only averages around 50% of its maximum generation capacity, and in hot weather (when it would be most useful) it is least dependable. The entire thing was offline during last year’s NSW heatwaves.

Estimates to refurbish the plant to keep the thing running for another mere 5 years run between $500 million and $1 billion. The work to rehabilitate the site after it closes down is costed at $898 million. Any purchaser of the plant, or the govt if they nationalise it, will have to pay those costs. And that’s on top of normal running costs, and they can’t rely on getting much back, given Liddell is so unreliable and polluting it’d really only be used as a generator of be a last-resort anyway.

It actually almost seems possible that AGL will get the plant for free from the NSW govt (who’d just finished spending hundreds of millions of taxpayers $ upgrading it), then sell it back for yet more taxpayers $ to the federal govt, who will then spend in the order of $1.3-1,8 billion more of taxpayers money on stickytape to hold the thing together for a little while, and on cleaning up the mess when it inevitably falls apart in a few years anyway.


(edit, fixed a million/billion typo!)


Fair enough guys, thanks for sharing. For what it’s worth i only asked because i guess i’m semi in the industry as well, Have my Bachelors in Electrical Engineering however my main line of work is currently automation.
I know nothing of climate change and political agendas but what i have learned from general feedback through the industry.
I haven’t really looked into renewables as much as i should and it sounds like the majority in this thread are clued up more than anyone so i’m really not at a point to share anything further, unless it’s my opinion on Nuclear to cause discussion :slight_smile:

I was curious to your backgrounds as you both come across as extremely knowledgable but I guess my feel on the whole thing is the media and political push outweighs the reality and the negativity I hear from other companies and consultants are another… Maybe they just want a piece of the pie, i dunno.

Sorry to interrupt the sh1t fight in here I was just curious on how people formed their opinion.

We can go back to talking about batteries will save he planet…


Isn’t our biggest lithium mine owned by the Chinese? Nice winner for them, then.

Aren’t we the clever country.


You need a protected transfer switch… basically to switch the incoming feed across to the generator feed still connected to the same load, or the critical load assuming the gen can’t power the whole dwelling. it really is straight forward.

Running batteries as storage and expecting to be powered during a blackout, that’s a completely different conversation and I haven’t looked into the engineering behind it but the solution is 3 or 4 times more than a gen and switch set up - guessing a bit here don’t quote me on the costs involved :slight_smile:



How does your civilisation saving clean energy wind farms compare against the average of 50% of maximum generation of the Liddell station? Less than 5%?

Another case of leaving the bits out you want to suit your cause and adding bits in you need! Do you work for ASADA?


Yes, it’s impossible to invest directly in lithium without being exposed to a lot of other stuff you don’t have an interest in. Another problem is the fact that there is so much lithium available that any increase in demand can easily be met by digging some more out of the ground. An investment in lithium is very unlikey to yield decent gains compared to other investments. A similar investment scenario happens with solar; as soon as one company starts making a bit of money, several others pop up and start to compete which reduces your chances of making big bucks.

The positive outcome of all of this is that the development of solar has a long way to go yet and there are plenty of resources to support it. Solar power will become unassailably cheap well before any international accords regarding climate change have any effect.

The projected cost per kilowatt for solar is coming down so quickly that the power grid will very soon become redundant for most individuals and we will charge our electric cars from the panels on our roof within the next five years. Would you be happy if our government invested hundreds of millions of dollars in goal, gas or nuclear power now?

The big power companies will soon become irrelevant for individuals. We will soon see power sharing apps on our phones that let us know that the guy over the road has an excess of electricity and we’ll be able to drive our electric car across the road and load up on his spare capacity for a fraction of the price that the power companies will be demanding.

The big problem that governments will have is how to tax us.