Climate Change in Australia


#3804

Logical arguments without straw men are bad. Don’t make arguments without what if’s. Debate with facts and research is bad.

Honestly mate, if you actually wonder why people on this board despise your line of thinking, it’s not the specious dribble you’re selling, it’s the fact that you treat everyone with contempt and insult their intelligence by keeping on with it in the face of rebuttals you won’t address. But you know you and yours are having your moment in the dark sun so good on you, jerk off.


#3805

Again:
After the initial outlay do they stop paying capitalist landowners the $14,000 per year to have these monstrosities on their land?
Not forgetting the billions of dollars in subsidies, $225 million to AGL alone, or have you forgotten that, every left-winger in the country was whinging about it including quite a few on this website and calls for nationalisation.

Coal?? Not so much.

Queensland only:
Rate Average price per tonne for period

  • Up to and including $100 - 7% of value
  • Over $100 and up to and including $150
    • First $100 - 7% of value
    • Balance - 12.5% of value
  • More than $150
    • First $100 - 7% of value
    • Next $50 - 12.5% of value
    • Balance - 15% of value

How much extra tax would you be paying.
The above does not include Company tax, personal tax paid by employees or the other states and federal government.


#3806

huh?


#3807

That’s the best part. Sorfed is using this as an argument to return to independent state generation based on coal. The load shedding event caused three “islands” of transmission. The one that didn’t get interrupted was the one that had zero coal and the most renewables. Lol.


#3808

That’s not surprising, sorfed never knows wtf he is actually talking about.

He only sees what he wants to from the data or story he shares. Blind to the rest

Sorfed: “look at this cow to prove my point”

image


#3809

You’re looking to cause some beef with that photo.


#3810

What you get when you cross Barnaby and Gina. Toady Cow


#3811

I don’t see what the incompetence of a handful of mariners has to do with climate change


#3812

I think you’re referring to https://www.business.qld.gov.au/industries/mining-energy-water/resources/minerals-coal/authorities-permits/payments/royalties/calculating/rates

Only loophole you’ve missed in all this is that if company A mines the coal and sells to company B then yes the would need to pay a royalty.

However if company A is both the miner and operator of the power generator the royalties paid can be 0 as there is no transaction occurring.

In addition coal used in Australia pays a lesser value as opposed to those which are exported.

Also feel free to browse the subsidies given to QLD miners and generators.

https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=3bff9787-4305-490f-ae5f-3a302d122aa2&subId=302059

Latest I could find i’m afraid.


#3813

no as coal is formed by the earth then it is also free just as the sun and wind is!

i wish diamonds were free!


#3814

not sure if serious? you know those big, massive holes they dig in the ground, i’m assuming that takes a shed load of diesel, man hours and god knows what ever.


#3815

yes i know it very well what it takes to get it out of the ground but solar farms turbines just dont pop out of the ground over night!.


#3816

The difference is that multinational corporations that pay no tax can’t get between you and the sun, like they can between you and the coal.

Also, of course he showed the error of his own argument by stating that diamonds (another form of underground carbon) are not free.


#3817

did you miss the bit where i said both need assets to be able to produce energy?


#3818

I think he is also missing the point that coal will eventually run out, where as the wind and sun wont. Well, the sun wont for millions of years.

edit: and then the wind will. Then us. but by then no one will care.


#3819

We aren’t going to run out of coal any time soon. There’s much, much more coal available for mining than we can remotely afford to burn if we’re going to avoid catastrophic global warming.


#3820

You can’t equate the Wind Towers with the Coal.

They are the producers, not the fuel. To equate the Coal, as a Fuel, . to the Turbines or panels, as infrastructure, . is either really devious, or not quite thought through.

Wind Turbines & Panels you have to equate to the Coal Fired station.

The Coal, it’s costs and it’s damage, you compare to the Sun &/or wind.

One costs shitloads to get to, dig up, and cart, and has to be done so continually in perpetuity, … the other, you do nothing, … except a bit of maintenance, … which would be a bout a tenth of the maintenance on the equivalent Kw coal plant.

Oh, . and also, … about 1 hundredth of the staff to run it, … and of course it’s Fuel is Free, ongoing, … in perpetuity.

NB: Funny how very few deniers / coal lovers/advocates etc, ever mention the Job loses in the industry transferring to renewables entail,. … which is actually a valid argument, … & which would require a top notch, rather large re skilling program etc, as part of the answer.


#3821

That takes care of the water scarcity issue.


#3822

Renewables forecast to halve wholesale energy prices over four years

Analysis shows 7,200MW of renewables added to grid after closures of coal-fired plants


The Bungala solar farm in Port Augusta

A solar farm in Port Augusta. Extra capacity commissioned after the closure of large coal-powered generators in South Australia and Victoria is bringing down wholesale energy prices. Photograph: The Guardian

While the Morrison government has identified lowering power prices as a key early priority, a new analysis says wholesale prices will almost halve over the next four years because of the technology many Coalition conservatives oppose – renewables.

The latest renewable energy index compiled by Green Energy Markets confirms analysis by the Energy Security Board that wholesale electricity prices are on the way down because of an addition of 7,200 megawatts of extra large-scale supply from renewable energy.

Tristan Edis from Green Energy Markets says the political debate in Canberra is lagging behind practical developments in the national electricity market. The national energy guarantee was scuppered in part because government conservatives were concerned the mechanism didn’t do enough to reduce power prices, and because of claims that renewables were inflating power bills.

“What I think is extraordinary given recent political events is that we’ve actually turned the corner on wholesale electricity prices and they’re now headed downward and will continue to decline substantially over the next few years,” Edis told Guardian Australia. “This doesn’t seem to have sunken in at all in our political debate.”

The new analysis charts movements in prices in the energy market. It says prices began to rise when large amounts of supply were withdrawn from the market in South Australia with the closure of the Northern power station, and because of the closure of the Hazelwood plant in Victoria.

It says new investment in large-scale renewable energy projects during that period had stalled because of Tony Abbott’s efforts to wind back the renewable energy target. “It was only after prices began spiking upwards with the announced closure of Hazelwood that we saw significant commitments to construct new large-scale renewable energy supply.”

The analysis says price reductions have followed more renewable projects coming on stream. “Prices have since continued to decline in anticipation of increasing amounts of renewable energy supply reaching construction completion and contributing power to the grid.”

Edis says the trends in the market aren’t connected to Canberra’s debate about coal versus renewables – “this is a simple case of economics 101” – meaning taht when supply is withdrawn, prices rise. “It seems we’ve dumped a prime minister based on completely false pretences.”

Morrison has told his newly appointed energy minister, Angus Taylor, that his pressing priority is driving power price reductions. The national energy guarantee that proved catalytic in Turnbull’s demise is on ice, and the new prime minister has split the environment and energy portfolios in recognition of the Liberal party’s difficulty reaching a landing point on an energy policy that includes emissions reduction.

Taylor, a conservative and former McKinsey consultant, has previously campaigned against renewable energy projects – a posture that has alarmed people in the renewables sector and environment groups.


#3823

Wonder how much of it the retailers will pass on…