Climate Change in Australia

No one here doesn’t not care about people getting sick BF, what we are saying is as it stands, right now, based on current evidence, that the likely cause of the illness if it is the turbine is that the turbine itself doesn’t meet quality standards.

If all turbines caused illness, which is what the anti wind farm people are saying, then there would be a significantly higher number of reported ill people within the geo-zones of turbines world over.

The fight should be to quality check that turbine, they may have already. I don’t know.

What is catagoric, is there are 225,000 operational wind turbines in the world right now, which have approximately 77 million people living within 10kms of them.

The number of reported vibroscousic disease cases which people state are the result of the general term wind turbines is 312. 216 of which are people living in Australia.

So that makes me think we have turbines that don’t meet global standards, so the owners of those turbines have 3 choices, shut them down, fix them, or reparation for those people effected. With the last point being a non negotiable either way.

If a wind farm is exceeding industrial noise standards, it's a big problem and badly needs to be fixed, but on the plus side it should be easily provable. Industrial and background noise is a well-known problem in a range of industries, and there are established means of redress. A windfarm that exceeds industrial noise limits should be shut down until it can operate legally, just like any other industry.

But as for the broader panic and claims about about ‘wind farm syndrome’ where there’s all these poorly documented claims of all manner of bizarre illnesses from deafness to chronic fatigue to cattle miscarriages being caused by wind farms/low frequency infrasound/whatever, well, that’s been pretty thoroughly disproven again and again and again. I don’t have the exact numbers at my fingers, but I do know that

  • the great majority of claims of disorders caused by wind farms have no proposed physiological mechanism of action, much less a scientifically tested and proved one
  • statistically, reports of windfarm syndrome seem to be a trailing indicator, but they don’t trail the building of windfarms, they trail the campaigning of anti-windfarm activists
  • reports of windfarm syndrome are pretty much unknown among non-english speaking people - especially those into whose language anti-windfarm material has not yet been translated.
  • Windfarm syndrome is basically unknown in those people who are getting paid to have windfarms on their property.
  • sufferers of Windfarm Syndrome have been interviewed and tested, and have claimed to detect disturbing/sickening infrasound/low-frequency vibration from windfarms even when the turbines have been deactivated for maintenence.
  • The effects of Windfarm Syndrome have never been associated with any other source of low-frequency sound or air vibration, and nobody has ever been able to satisfactorily explain what is so special about windfarms that they cause it while other sound sources don’t
  • In Australia especially, reports of windfarm syndrome track the activities of the Waubra Foundation, a supposedly ‘grass-roots’ anti-windfarm campaign group that actually used the same PO box address as a fossil fuel lobby group until they got caught out a couple of years ago and changed it in a hurry.

There’s been inquiry after investigation after report about this, by all sorts of different people. They consistently find that there is no evidence linking windfarms to any health effects at all, but of course some people see this as the Big Wind Conspiracy At Work Covering Up The Truth. Pfft. From everything I’ve read, a more likely explanation that better fits the evidence, is that people are worrying themselves sick about windfarms, with the assistance of scaremongering rubbish from the fossil fuel lobby and other anti-windfarm activists. People who don’t worry, either because they’ve done their own research prior to allowing turbines on their land, or because they haven’t yet been exposed to (or have ignored) the more hysterical anti-windfarm material out there, don’t get sick. Stress-related illness is a very real thing. Psychosomatic illness is a very real thing. Industrial-noise related hearing problems etc, yeah, they’re very real too. Windfarm-related illness … is probably not.

Yep HM, continue to believe what is written in the media…

The research is inconclusive, even the NHMRC say that more research is needed, and it must be independent as most done is funded by either side with their vested interests.

The facts are that people are becoming sick once turbines are built near them. The way you and others ridicule them, call them liars, allege they are just after money and have a closed mind is contemptible. I don’t know why, and I don’t really care if it is wind turbine or voodoo illness, but it is real, I have seen it.

I have no vested interest other than caring about the wellbeing of those affected, and calling out those like you who just want to write people off.

there's no scientific consensus?

The real hard scientific work just has not been done. and it is hard, as it involves so many unknowns and crosses over medicine and engineering and probably many other things. The best research into infra-sound was done by the Soviets apparently as they were trying to develop a weapon and the Yanks probably did it as well but it is still a big secret.

When I was Mayor, we tried to get our local University to do a research project into actually measuring the sounds and vibrations. One difficulty with this was that there were no instruments available that could actually measure the noise, so they would have to develop and build them.

Instead of this being a public health question, it becomes this defence of renewable energy and anyone like me is labelled a coal-lover or a climate change sceptic. The issue divides communities and not actually always over money, but over rights. The Wind Industry are clever (like the Miners) and use this division to further their case.

I am not actually asking you guys to believe that Windfarm Syndrome exists, because I am unsure, but to have a little compassion for people like the old couple I know in rural Victoria who live 517 metres from a 150 meter wind turbine, have no options to leave and no-one to fight for them. They really don’t like anyone anymore and trust no-one, except their Doctor. They just want their lives back, and the Windfarm Company should just buy their property and let them get on with life.

If a wind farm is exceeding industrial noise standards, it's a big problem and badly needs to be fixed, but on the plus side it should be easily provable. Industrial and background noise is a well-known problem in a range of industries, and there are established means of redress. A windfarm that exceeds industrial noise limits should be shut down until it can operate legally, just like any other industry.

But as for the broader panic and claims about about ‘wind farm syndrome’ where there’s all these poorly documented claims of all manner of bizarre illnesses from deafness to chronic fatigue to cattle miscarriages being caused by wind farms/low frequency infrasound/whatever, well, that’s been pretty thoroughly disproven again and again and again. I don’t have the exact numbers at my fingers, but I do know that

  • the great majority of claims of disorders caused by wind farms have no proposed physiological mechanism of action, much less a scientifically tested and proved one
  • statistically, reports of windfarm syndrome seem to be a trailing indicator, but they don’t trail the building of windfarms, they trail the campaigning of anti-windfarm activists
  • reports of windfarm syndrome are pretty much unknown among non-english speaking people - especially those into whose language anti-windfarm material has not yet been translated.
  • Windfarm syndrome is basically unknown in those people who are getting paid to have windfarms on their property.
  • sufferers of Windfarm Syndrome have been interviewed and tested, and have claimed to detect disturbing/sickening infrasound/low-frequency vibration from windfarms even when the turbines have been deactivated for maintenence.
  • The effects of Windfarm Syndrome have never been associated with any other source of low-frequency sound or air vibration, and nobody has ever been able to satisfactorily explain what is so special about windfarms that they cause it while other sound sources don’t
  • In Australia especially, reports of windfarm syndrome track the activities of the Waubra Foundation, a supposedly ‘grass-roots’ anti-windfarm campaign group that actually used the same PO box address as a fossil fuel lobby group until they got caught out a couple of years ago and changed it in a hurry.

There’s been inquiry after investigation after report about this, by all sorts of different people. They consistently find that there is no evidence linking windfarms to any health effects at all, but of course some people see this as the Big Wind Conspiracy At Work Covering Up The Truth. Pfft. From everything I’ve read, a more likely explanation that better fits the evidence, is that people are worrying themselves sick about windfarms, with the assistance of scaremongering rubbish from the fossil fuel lobby and other anti-windfarm activists. People who don’t worry, either because they’ve done their own research prior to allowing turbines on their land, or because they haven’t yet been exposed to (or have ignored) the more hysterical anti-windfarm material out there, don’t get sick. Stress-related illness is a very real thing. Psychosomatic illness is a very real thing. Industrial-noise related hearing problems etc, yeah, they’re very real too. Windfarm-related illness … is probably not.

Reading this all I could think of was this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum
If a wind farm is exceeding industrial noise standards, it's a big problem and badly needs to be fixed, but on the plus side it should be easily provable. Industrial and background noise is a well-known problem in a range of industries, and there are established means of redress. A windfarm that exceeds industrial noise limits should be shut down until it can operate legally, just like any other industry.

But as for the broader panic and claims about about ‘wind farm syndrome’ where there’s all these poorly documented claims of all manner of bizarre illnesses from deafness to chronic fatigue to cattle miscarriages being caused by wind farms/low frequency infrasound/whatever, well, that’s been pretty thoroughly disproven again and again and again. I don’t have the exact numbers at my fingers, but I do know that

  • the great majority of claims of disorders caused by wind farms have no proposed physiological mechanism of action, much less a scientifically tested and proved one
  • statistically, reports of windfarm syndrome seem to be a trailing indicator, but they don’t trail the building of windfarms, they trail the campaigning of anti-windfarm activists
  • reports of windfarm syndrome are pretty much unknown among non-english speaking people - especially those into whose language anti-windfarm material has not yet been translated.
  • Windfarm syndrome is basically unknown in those people who are getting paid to have windfarms on their property.
  • sufferers of Windfarm Syndrome have been interviewed and tested, and have claimed to detect disturbing/sickening infrasound/low-frequency vibration from windfarms even when the turbines have been deactivated for maintenence.
  • The effects of Windfarm Syndrome have never been associated with any other source of low-frequency sound or air vibration, and nobody has ever been able to satisfactorily explain what is so special about windfarms that they cause it while other sound sources don’t
  • In Australia especially, reports of windfarm syndrome track the activities of the Waubra Foundation, a supposedly ‘grass-roots’ anti-windfarm campaign group that actually used the same PO box address as a fossil fuel lobby group until they got caught out a couple of years ago and changed it in a hurry.

There’s been inquiry after investigation after report about this, by all sorts of different people. They consistently find that there is no evidence linking windfarms to any health effects at all, but of course some people see this as the Big Wind Conspiracy At Work Covering Up The Truth. Pfft. From everything I’ve read, a more likely explanation that better fits the evidence, is that people are worrying themselves sick about windfarms, with the assistance of scaremongering rubbish from the fossil fuel lobby and other anti-windfarm activists. People who don’t worry, either because they’ve done their own research prior to allowing turbines on their land, or because they haven’t yet been exposed to (or have ignored) the more hysterical anti-windfarm material out there, don’t get sick. Stress-related illness is a very real thing. Psychosomatic illness is a very real thing. Industrial-noise related hearing problems etc, yeah, they’re very real too. Windfarm-related illness … is probably not.

Yep HM, continue to believe what is written in the media…

The research is inconclusive, even the NHMRC say that more research is needed, and it must be independent as most done is funded by either side with their vested interests.

The facts are that people are becoming sick once turbines are built near them. The way you and others ridicule them, call them liars, allege they are just after money and have a closed mind is contemptible. I don’t know why, and I don’t really care if it is wind turbine or voodoo illness, but it is real, I have seen it.

I have no vested interest other than caring about the wellbeing of those affected, and calling out those like you who just want to write people off.

there's no scientific consensus?
Did anyone watch 4 corners tonight btw?

Yep, I did. I found it as more categorical proof that Phoney Tone is yesterdays man.

Coal is well on the way to being finished, and he cuts & is trying to cut further, any investment in new technologies.

More reality that the Murdoch minions won’t get to hear about.

If a wind farm is exceeding industrial noise standards, it's a big problem and badly needs to be fixed, but on the plus side it should be easily provable. Industrial and background noise is a well-known problem in a range of industries, and there are established means of redress. A windfarm that exceeds industrial noise limits should be shut down until it can operate legally, just like any other industry.

But as for the broader panic and claims about about ‘wind farm syndrome’ where there’s all these poorly documented claims of all manner of bizarre illnesses from deafness to chronic fatigue to cattle miscarriages being caused by wind farms/low frequency infrasound/whatever, well, that’s been pretty thoroughly disproven again and again and again. I don’t have the exact numbers at my fingers, but I do know that

  • the great majority of claims of disorders caused by wind farms have no proposed physiological mechanism of action, much less a scientifically tested and proved one
  • statistically, reports of windfarm syndrome seem to be a trailing indicator, but they don’t trail the building of windfarms, they trail the campaigning of anti-windfarm activists
  • reports of windfarm syndrome are pretty much unknown among non-english speaking people - especially those into whose language anti-windfarm material has not yet been translated.
  • Windfarm syndrome is basically unknown in those people who are getting paid to have windfarms on their property.
  • sufferers of Windfarm Syndrome have been interviewed and tested, and have claimed to detect disturbing/sickening infrasound/low-frequency vibration from windfarms even when the turbines have been deactivated for maintenence.
  • The effects of Windfarm Syndrome have never been associated with any other source of low-frequency sound or air vibration, and nobody has ever been able to satisfactorily explain what is so special about windfarms that they cause it while other sound sources don’t
  • In Australia especially, reports of windfarm syndrome track the activities of the Waubra Foundation, a supposedly ‘grass-roots’ anti-windfarm campaign group that actually used the same PO box address as a fossil fuel lobby group until they got caught out a couple of years ago and changed it in a hurry.

There’s been inquiry after investigation after report about this, by all sorts of different people. They consistently find that there is no evidence linking windfarms to any health effects at all, but of course some people see this as the Big Wind Conspiracy At Work Covering Up The Truth. Pfft. From everything I’ve read, a more likely explanation that better fits the evidence, is that people are worrying themselves sick about windfarms, with the assistance of scaremongering rubbish from the fossil fuel lobby and other anti-windfarm activists. People who don’t worry, either because they’ve done their own research prior to allowing turbines on their land, or because they haven’t yet been exposed to (or have ignored) the more hysterical anti-windfarm material out there, don’t get sick. Stress-related illness is a very real thing. Psychosomatic illness is a very real thing. Industrial-noise related hearing problems etc, yeah, they’re very real too. Windfarm-related illness … is probably not.

Yep HM, continue to believe what is written in the media…

The research is inconclusive, even the NHMRC say that more research is needed, and it must be independent as most done is funded by either side with their vested interests.

The facts are that people are becoming sick once turbines are built near them. The way you and others ridicule them, call them liars, allege they are just after money and have a closed mind is contemptible. I don’t know why, and I don’t really care if it is wind turbine or voodoo illness, but it is real, I have seen it.

I have no vested interest other than caring about the wellbeing of those affected, and calling out those like you who just want to write people off.

Did anyone watch 4 corners tonight btw?

The very definition of science is to put it out there to be disproven.

The end result is it’s very hard to put out bunk, without it being very quickly debunked.

Where the charlatans get involved is when they make the biggest noise about one side of the argument.

Google scholar BF, every peer reviewed paper that’s ever been digitised on the subject is there.

https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&q=wind+turbine+health+effects&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

Look, as with fracking fracking up the water, it’s due to ineffective contaminated water containment, I suggest that with bodgy wind turbines it’s as HM said, the ones causing the damage are the ones that don’t meet standards.

thats why it’s so hard to categorically prove they are making people sick, because to get a definitive answer they need to run checks on a hundred people from all over Australia, and there is no pattern right now.

No disrespect to you or your Folks, young Bem, but that is where you lose me every time.

You see, I care about the effects of freeways, coal mines and power stations as well, but I am not about making these crap comparisons.

You choose to demean and minimize, the situation of a few people I have met, and I just don’t get it. Your argument must be really weak if all you can say, is that you can find more people in worse positions.

Of course, farking fracking and burning coal is ■■■■ poor, but don’t think that these turbines are not really hurting people because they are. And don’t be fooled that the Wind Industry cares about anything but profit, just like all mining companies as well.

That’s fair enough, it all needs to be fixed, hence why I started out by saying their needs to be rules, my point I was trying to make, and poorly might it seems, is that we have a power supply that might be suss, and the government are bending over backwards to kill it, where as we have others that are irrefutably shizzen and its crickets.

If a wind farm is exceeding industrial noise standards, it’s a big problem and badly needs to be fixed, but on the plus side it should be easily provable. Industrial and background noise is a well-known problem in a range of industries, and there are established means of redress. A windfarm that exceeds industrial noise limits should be shut down until it can operate legally, just like any other industry.

But as for the broader panic and claims about about ‘wind farm syndrome’ where there’s all these poorly documented claims of all manner of bizarre illnesses from deafness to chronic fatigue to cattle miscarriages being caused by wind farms/low frequency infrasound/whatever, well, that’s been pretty thoroughly disproven again and again and again. I don’t have the exact numbers at my fingers, but I do know that

  • the great majority of claims of disorders caused by wind farms have no proposed physiological mechanism of action, much less a scientifically tested and proved one
  • statistically, reports of windfarm syndrome seem to be a trailing indicator, but they don’t trail the building of windfarms, they trail the campaigning of anti-windfarm activists
  • reports of windfarm syndrome are pretty much unknown among non-english speaking people - especially those into whose language anti-windfarm material has not yet been translated.
  • Windfarm syndrome is basically unknown in those people who are getting paid to have windfarms on their property.
  • sufferers of Windfarm Syndrome have been interviewed and tested, and have claimed to detect disturbing/sickening infrasound/low-frequency vibration from windfarms even when the turbines have been deactivated for maintenence.
  • The effects of Windfarm Syndrome have never been associated with any other source of low-frequency sound or air vibration, and nobody has ever been able to satisfactorily explain what is so special about windfarms that they cause it while other sound sources don’t
  • In Australia especially, reports of windfarm syndrome track the activities of the Waubra Foundation, a supposedly ‘grass-roots’ anti-windfarm campaign group that actually used the same PO box address as a fossil fuel lobby group until they got caught out a couple of years ago and changed it in a hurry.

There’s been inquiry after investigation after report about this, by all sorts of different people. They consistently find that there is no evidence linking windfarms to any health effects at all, but of course some people see this as the Big Wind Conspiracy At Work Covering Up The Truth. Pfft. From everything I’ve read, a more likely explanation that better fits the evidence, is that people are worrying themselves sick about windfarms, with the assistance of scaremongering rubbish from the fossil fuel lobby and other anti-windfarm activists. People who don’t worry, either because they’ve done their own research prior to allowing turbines on their land, or because they haven’t yet been exposed to (or have ignored) the more hysterical anti-windfarm material out there, don’t get sick. Stress-related illness is a very real thing. Psychosomatic illness is a very real thing. Industrial-noise related hearing problems etc, yeah, they’re very real too. Windfarm-related illness … is probably not.

Wind turbines, Tone is offering half a mill to anyone who can prove him right.

I can show you the people who are ill, and it has all happened since the massive farking turbine was built 517 metres from their home. Their Doctor says it is the turbine; the Accoustic Engineer says the noise is way above industrial standards and all the poor folk want is for it all to go away.

Their only asset is their home, and now it is devalued and they have no alternatives.

So fark Tone, fark the wind industry and fark all you tossers who just want to ridicule poor folk who are suffering.


An actual real doctor is claiming something completely unproven to cause any form of illness whatsoever is the cause of their serious illness?
It will be interesting to read this research paper documenting this, when it’s published & peer reviewed.

An actual real Doctor standing up and proving it as well. Unlike like the scientists and charlatans like Simon Chapman who get paid so to say it is all bunk.

Wind turbines, Tone is offering half a mill to anyone who can prove him right.

I can show you the people who are ill, and it has all happened since the massive farking turbine was built 517 metres from their home. Their Doctor says it is the turbine; the Accoustic Engineer says the noise is way above industrial standards and all the poor folk want is for it all to go away.

Their only asset is their home, and now it is devalued and they have no alternatives.

So fark Tone, fark the wind industry and fark all you tossers who just want to ridicule poor folk who are suffering.

not a lot of union members currently employed in wind farming?

Actually FS, Labor and Unions are in bed with Big Wind. I am about as welcome as a turd in your shoe at Labor Conferences these days.

No disrespect to you or your Folks, young Bem, but that is where you lose me every time.

You see, I care about the effects of freeways, coal mines and power stations as well, but I am not about making these crap comparisons.

You choose to demean and minimize, the situation of a few people I have met, and I just don’t get it. Your argument must be really weak if all you can say, is that you can find more people in worse positions.

Of course, farking fracking and burning coal is ■■■■ poor, but don’t think that these turbines are not really hurting people because they are. And don’t be fooled that the Wind Industry cares about anything but profit, just like all mining companies as well.

CSIRO has produced a new modeling website that can show you depend on where you live in Australia how certain scenarios would play out as far as how the climate of certain parts of the country moves.

http://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/climate-projections/climate-analogues/analogues-explorer/

it says things like by 2050 Griffiths climate will be similar to that of current day Dubbos

I think that’s unfair on Lomborg, he simply doesn’t believe that catastrophic global warming is going to occur and that preventing moderate global warming should be a low priority based on a cost - benefit analysis.

I think currently we look at climate change as a political and economic inconvenience. For a country still desperately reliant mining income we cant afford to acknowledge the desperation of the situation. Much better we act surprised down the track when it is too late.

I think that's unfair on Lomborg, he simply doesn't believe that catastrophic global warming is going to occur and that preventing moderate global warming should be a low priority based on a cost - benefit analysis.

Wonder what the benefit is of the 4 million he costs.

I think currently we look at climate change as a political and economic inconvenience. For a country still desperately reliant mining income we cant afford to acknowledge the desperation of the situation. Much better we act surprised down the track when it is too late.

The way I see it, at least striving for the solutions will be the biggest economic boom of the 21st century. Climate change or not, finding renewable energy sources capable of replacing fossil fuels will be worth gozillions of dollars. Even if our only motivation is to stop paying billions to the middle east then its still worth it.

I think currently we look at climate change as a political and economic inconvenience. For a country still desperately reliant mining income we cant afford to acknowledge the desperation of the situation. Much better we act surprised down the track when it is too late.

The way I see it, at least striving for the solutions will be the biggest economic boom of the 21st century. Climate change or not, finding renewable energy sources capable of replacing fossil fuels will be worth gozillions of dollars. Even if our only motivation is to stop paying billions to the middle east then its still worth it.

Not often I agree with you JB but think you are spot on. Would love to see Australia lead the way on this

I think currently we look at climate change as a political and economic inconvenience. For a country still desperately reliant mining income we cant afford to acknowledge the desperation of the situation. Much better we act surprised down the track when it is too late.
That is an exceptionally accurate and elegant way of putting it Allblack, its also the very reason the food belt are starting to turn their backs in the national party towards the greens. Having spent the last few years in the Riverena seeing people being massivly anti green due to their hunting law stance, to people swing towards them for last gasp help due to environmental impact support requirements was quite staggering.