Disgraceful EFC - Extending pokies license to 2042

you really cant see what is going on?

really?

are people really this naive?

Yep, obviously some are.

You guys are wowsers. My clients, who happen to be your children, are better off buying my gear because I do a few quality checks and my stuff is pretty good. The supply just wonā€™t go away if you string me up, so donā€™t even try. Just because some of your kids inject my gear into their eyeballs is not my fault, thatā€™s your fault for not teaching them the proper way to do drugs.
Now you might think Iā€™m scum because I prey on the addiction and suffering of vulnerable members of our society, and that would be mostly true, but Iā€™m no worse than the tobacco industry, junk food franchises or drug companies that also peddle in slow death.

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More a big moral issue than climate change? Fujitsu make a profit from selling carbon making machines, Amart make a profit from clearing forests & stealing wildlife habitat to make furniture. Yes thats me pretend snowflaking but its the same arguments Iā€™m reading against pokies. They are a legal form of entertainment gambling. Yes they cause a massive amount of social issues for addicts but they are not somehow solely for use by those who cannot afford them. We donā€™t judge alcohol only by what it does to alcoholics yet some here seem to believe pokies & the clubs that operate them are only about the addicts.

As Fox points out he enjoys & is happy to pay for their entertainment. I know other people who feel the same way. Personally I would much much prefer they were massively reduced in numbers & forced to provide far higher returns to players but again thats not in any way shape or form connected to the EFC & their decision to profit from them.

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Society has many issues; some are exciting and others are destructive.

In my view, you miss the point about addiction. I am not trying to justify anything, but I would rather drugs and gambling are conducted in a controlled regulated environment. My experience with the goverance of the Melton Country Club is very positive; I cannot say the same about the gambling at TabCorp Park at Melton or all the pubs locally that have pokies.

As some have tried to allude, EFC end-game may be to get a long-term lease approved on the next few weeks, so they have a very large saleable asset. I applaud the financial diligence. EFC still owes $4 million bucks and if this pays it off and makes us solid into the future then my pokie dollars have been worth it.

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Look, as I said you and I clearly have diametrically opposing views. And Iā€™m clearly in the minority on this forum. So go ahead and brand me a naive, liberal snowflake or whatever term you feel best applies.
Iā€™d say I understand addiction and itā€™s affects as well as anyone on this forum. It is misleading practice by the club to preach one thing and practice another. It is not naive to be disappointed by that.
But for now letā€™s agree to disagree, because you and I will never see eye to eye on this issue.

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Yea, I agree with you on the pokies, no problem.

On the Fujistu or Amart link - very tenuous link to me. If we are drilling that far, then everything we do in the western world, heck whole world is an issue and we can not proceed anymore. No aircon, no furniture, no economy basically.

Climate change - from what I read the biggest effect is animal farming. So what, we all have to go vegan now or there is some sort of moral issue? We cant then use blitz anymore as power and computers are out. Cant wear leather footy boots, so lets close up the league etc.

Owning a pokies license is a direct link to the gambling issue. Not sure the others are anywhere near similar.

Still, taking money from CUB (for example) who markets alcohol to young people is a much closer link that a business doing what it must do to stay in business and sell a product 99% of Australians purchase and use, ie furniture.

There are levels to this stuff. Surely.

ā€œPokie machines ruin livesā€.

Ok, so letā€™s eliminate the following behavioural addictions, because they too have the potential to be bad for you and ruin your life in significant ways ā€¦

  • cell phone and social media
  • Exercise
  • Food and eating
  • Gambling
  • Internet
  • Love and relationships
  • P_rn and masturbation
  • Sex
  • Shopping
  • Video games

Donā€™t see anything wrong with Essendonā€™s involvement in pokies. They continues to explore other revenue sources so they become less reliant on the machines but at this point in time they need them so they can run the club and pour money back into the community. I think itā€™s very responsible business.

I dont think your views are the problem - it is the organisations that pretend to be the liberal snowflake types (social agenda) who are just lying through their teeth. Our club and AFL are just two of many.

If you REALLY want my view on gambling - the issue I have are the rules and regulations around it which take it away from gambling and more into scamming the punter.

The punter has no hope as the rules are too one-sided. Open it up - allow card counters and those with skill to beat a game. Dont ban them and kick them out. If the organisation is at risk of fail, they are gambling against the gambler and THAT is gambling. Not what we have now which is one-sided crap aimed at destroying the punter.

Sports betting? Ban or reduce the juice. The bookies make money from both sides because they can. Make the odds balanced that the punter gets the real odds, and punters can take down a bookie. Sure, it theoretically can be done but when you add up the advantages the house has, it is nearly impossible.

People think they are ā€˜gamblingā€™ but they aint. It is a whole system working against them, most of it with little to do with the actual ā€˜betā€™.

It is for this that I feel sorry for the punter. Most seem to have no idea.

But, this is a totally another story for another threat on another day. Again, I have no problem with the EFC owning a pokies license.

Again, all of that is kind of irrelevant.
Personally, Iā€™d get rid of every poker machine in the state.
Replace them with the old slots, if you really must have your spinning reels of fun, because at least theyā€™re not designed to suck away your money, pride and sense of reality.
And you can ā€˜what aboutā€™ everything from brothels to Greenpeace until the cows come home.

You can be for poker machine revenue for the club, or against it.
Thatā€™s okay.

But what matters is that the club has reiterated that they are going to move into ā€˜more ethical sources of revenueā€™ so if you have a problem with that you should probably direct your concerns to the club, not people who agree with that here.

I mean, I donā€™t think the club would just tell lies on the internet.

As I understand it, ours and footy clubsā€™ pokies license are tied to their not-for-profit status.

We simply cant just auction them off and profit. Much more difficult, and a lot less lucrative for us. We cant sell em to crown or the local pub, for example.

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Of course thereā€™s levels but the argument is exactly the same - if you believe a football club should have to operate in a vacuum where every possible moral consideration is put above the good of the club then there really is all or nothing. My point is personal morals or the club trying to appear to appease certain parts of the moral argument should be a non-consideration when it comes to the viability of the club financially. As long as its legal I see no reason why some peoples morals should be put above the good of the club. Nobody has even tried to suggest a financial benefit to exiting pokies & nobody has made as reasoned argument as to how the clubs involvement has any effect on problem gambling at all.

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Iā€™d argue that in a world where one can play pokies on their phone, that a reduction in the number of pokies wonā€™t do anything to assist addicts anyway.

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Lol, serious? Why would casinos etc operate on level odds? Everybody knows the house wins. If you donā€™t like it, donā€™t gamble.

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Iā€™ve seen pokies completely ruin a family. Mate of minesā€™ wife became addicted and stealthily drew down on the family mortgage . As she managed the finances, he didnā€™t realize until the bank contacted him regarding the debt to equity level that was triggered. Lost the house. He is no longer with her, and he doesnā€™t blame the pokies.

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Think we can sell the machine licences, and our lease of the building is with Melton City Council, and it under the terms there are obligations for Community use.

People are gambling and also being entertained. No-one ever said that gambling is fair or that you should always have an even money chance of success. The rules are always stated, and while I do disagree with some, I udnerstan dthem and still gamble.

Some people who gamble are stupid, but most are not.

I once got banned from the Casino in Darwin for ā€œcard-countingā€; I did not know it was against the rules then, so I stopped playing card games in my own silent protest.

of course the house wins but personally I think pokies are far far too weighted towards the house. The odds on roulette for example are weighted but reasonably fair - thereā€™s 36 red/black numbers plus 2 (should only be allowed 1) zero. So the odds are that 1 to 38 that a slot slot will receive the ball & the return is 35 to 1. Again that means the house will almost always win but its still a decent return. Pokies are different in that there is no guarantee that any bet will give a return. Imagine the horse races if there was no guarantee (unless its a disaster) of there being a winner. Pokies can & regularly do not return a profit to anyone but the operators - I donā€™t think this is the case for any other form of gambling.

Again, Iā€™m not pro pokies at all, Iā€™m pro EFC making a profit & staying financially viable from legitimate & legal business practices.

Yes but people are aware of this. Adults making decisions etc etc. The odds of winning Powerball are around 1 in 300,000,000. Gambling addiction is one thing but people complaining about pokies being rigged? Give me a break. Everybody knows the rules before they play.

And iā€™m with you, if itā€™s legal iā€™d rather EFC have the revenue than some of those other twisted companies that control the vast majority of the machines.

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AFL is has a huge sponsorship partnership with a number of gambling agencies. This isnā€™t that different.