Draft wrap up

cul_de_sac · November 27, 2016, 5:48am

It's no secret that many Aboriginal footballers face challenges that are far different from the rest of the country, just as indigenous Australia broadly faces serious and different challenges.

But to just cherry pick a list of indigenous players with known issues without any context, or acknowledgement of the large numbers of non-indigenous players with off field issues, not to mention the numbers of indigenous players who don’t get into career affecting trouble, yeah you are running the risk of being called a racist.

Here’s a breakdown of how your post reads:

“We don’t pick indigenous players, because indigenous players are trouble. Here’s some very selective evidence to support it”

If you don’t want to be accused of being racist, try actually taking the time to look at the entire issue. If not don’t post anything.

G-Unit · November 27, 2016, 5:49am

It’s not politically correct to point out that while certainly not a problem exclusive to indigenous footballers, there appears to be a far greater concentration of indigenous players struggling to meet the demands of professional football. Whether that be due to the pressures of relocating away from family, acclimatising to city life… etc. etc. I think any smart recruiter would factor that level of risk.

What I don’t understand is that why, given the many failures in recent years in particular, people feel the need to criticise the club every time we opt to not draft an aboriginal player, as if we have to meet some sort of unwritten quota.

pointy · November 27, 2016, 5:51am

I’m also going to jump on the Ben/HM love train.

As somebody that watches a little bit of underage footy but certainly not enough to understand where the kids sit in relation to each other and doesn’t have the have the most sophisticated understanding of the system I love HM’s insights.

As far as Ben goes, yeah sure he has a bias but you know that going in. He’s passionate, highlights players that probably don’t get a fair shake from recruiters or media and is entertaining on the board or on the Blitzcast.

Keep up the good work lads.

kingofthehill · November 27, 2016, 5:51am

I’m out and got told to get off that ■■■■■■ phone. Not really sure who I’m arguing with right now.
Should read more thoroughly

cul_de_sac · November 27, 2016, 5:54am

Now this I agree with. I bet Matt Rendell would agree with the bold as well.

G-Unit · November 27, 2016, 5:55am

That’s a very lazy way of reading my post.

If anything, it’s racist to constantly single out aboriginal players, almost as if their aboriginality alone should be seen as a reason to draft them. I believe in drafting on merit, not on skin colour.

wimmera1 · November 27, 2016, 5:58am

I don’t think he’s making extraordinary claims.
The situation with Eades IS unusual.
The high draft picks Do seem to show a correlation.
And I guess for every Franklin there just might be a Tambling.

Again, this seems to be more knee jerk reaction to something that sounds bad, rather than an actual retort.
I’d like to hear one.
Honestly.

Earthquake · November 27, 2016, 6:14am

Sorry in what way did I do this?

In any case I’m not going to become involved in such ridiculous discussion, but maybe the struggles of indigenous footballers is less to do with the players and more to do with the fact that so called fans of the AFL feel the need to boo an Aboriginal player because they are outspoken about the issues facing that community. But no by all means call for the team to ignore indigenous players they are more trouble than they are worth

SplitRound · November 27, 2016, 6:16am

A specific retort: Jarrod Pickett was pick 4 in 2014. GWS took picks 4, 6, 7, 23, 24 and 85 in that draft. They traded all of those players bar pick 85 (Finlayson) this year, all of them for next to nothing (the highest being Steele for St Kilda’s 2017 2nd round pick). It seems likely to me, given that context, that it doesn’t say much about Pickett at all.

wimmera1 · November 27, 2016, 6:23am

That was to Deckham.
And if you’re not going to get involved other than to just say ‘racist’ then do everyone a favour and don’t even do that.

Pevster · November 27, 2016, 6:29am

But the fact that Pickett struggled for conditioning and keeping his weight down is of relevance.

barnz · November 27, 2016, 6:36am

taranto interview on sen, super impressive, reckon gws got an out and out star with him.

Deckham · November 27, 2016, 6:50am

Ahm…I’m quite happy operating the way I do, Wim, but thanks for the suggestion.

benfti · November 27, 2016, 6:56am

ive been thinking of how to answer this: ive decided to go with this

If the league has to go through that, to find this champion of a human being

if FARKEN worth it.

benfti · November 27, 2016, 6:59am

this came as a close second

Winston Abraham Fremantle
North Melbourne 1995–2001 110 150
Matthew Ahmat Brisbane Lions
Sydney 1991–1994 8 1
Robert Ah Mat Collingwood
Sydney 1995–2001 67 68
Joe Anderson Carlton 2007–2010 17 0
Tony Armstrong Adelaide
Sydney
Collingwood 2010–2015 35 2
Jarrod Atkinson Essendon 2008–2011 17 5
Les Bamblett Melbourne
Footscray 1983–1988 48 71
Chance Bateman Hawthorn 2000–2012 174 67
Laurie Bellotti West Coast 1999–2000 24 2
Harley Bennell Gold Coast
Fremantle 2011–present 81 92
Jamie Bennell Melbourne
West Coast 2009–present 86 26
Eddie Betts Carlton
Adelaide 2005–present 240 443
Peter Bird Fitzroy 1995–1996 15 7
Alan Bloomfield North Melbourne 1970–1971 13 7
Ashley Blurton West Coast
Richmond 1995–1999 24 9
Shane Bond West Coast
Port Adelaide 1994–2000 91 31
Troy Bond Carlton
Adelaide 1994–1999 94 77
Peter Burgoyne # Port Adelaide 1997–2009 225 189
Shaun Burgoyne Port Adelaide
Hawthorn 2002–present 316 254
Ronnie Burns Geelong
Adelaide 1996–2004 154 262
Norm Byron Fitzroy 1918 2 1
Barry Cable # North Melbourne 1970, 1974–1977 115 133
Shane Cable West Coast 1987 1 0
Fred Campbell Sydney
St Kilda 1999–2000 12 7
Matt Campbell North Melbourne 2007–2012 67 70
Warren Campbell North Melbourne 1994–1995 19 17
Kevin Caton West Coast
Fitzroy
Brisbane Bears 1988–1990 18 18
Sean Charles Melbourne
Carlton
St Kilda 1992–1998, 2000 56 66
Scott Chisholm Fremantle
Melbourne 1995–2000 81 33
Allen Christensen^ Geelong
Brisbane Lions 2011–present 95 82
Raphael Clarke^ St Kilda 2004–2012 82 8
Xavier Clarke St Kilda
Brisbane Lions 2002–2008, 2010 106 49
Eric Clarke St Kilda 1980 6 6
Che Cockatoo-Collins Essendon, Port Adelaide 1994–2003 160 215 Brother of David and Donald Cockatoo-Collins.
David Cockatoo-Collins Melbourne 1996–1997 2 0 Twin brother of Donald and brother of Che Cockatoo-Collins.
Donald Cockatoo-Collins Melbourne 1996–1998 9 3 Twin brother of David and brother of Che Cockatoo-Collins.
Adam Cockie West Coast 2009 7 3
Richard Cole Collingwood, Essendon 2002–2007 63 6
Clayton Collard Fremantle 2007 1 1
Cyril Collard Hawthorn 1957–1958 13 3
Troy Cook Sydney, Fremantle 1997–2007 193 77
Reuben Cooper South Melbourne 1969 2 0
Anthony Corrie Brisbane Lions, Collingwood 2004–2009 56 50
Shannon Cox Collingwood 2007–2009 25 6
Percy Cummings Hawthorn 1964–1965 5 1
Robert Cummings Fitzroy 1990 1 0 Brother of Trent Cummings.
Trent Cummings Fitzroy, West Coast 1994–1997 29 19 Brother of Robert Cummings.
Aaron Davey Melbourne 2004–2013 150 152
Alwyn Davey Essendon 2007–2013 100 120
Leon Davis Collingwood 2000–2011 225 270
Courtenay Dempsey Essendon 2006–present 122 31
Gary Dhurrkay Fremantle, North Melbourne 1995–2000 72 66
Brad ■■■■ Collingwood 2009–2011 27 32
Willie ■■■■ Essendon 1992 7 6
Nathan Djerrkura Geelong, Western Bulldogs 2009–2012 12 4
Shane Edwards Richmond 2007–present 36 24
Alf Egan Carlton, North Melbourne 1931–1935 51 27
Chris Egan Collingwood 2005–2009 27 22 Nephew of Phil Egan.
Phil Egan Richmond, Melbourne 1982–1989 & 1991 126 17 Uncle of Chris Egan.
Graham Farmer Geelong 1962–1967 101 65
Jeff Farmer Melbourne, Fremantle 1995–2008 249 483
Cameron Faulkner Western Bulldogs 2004–2007 18 9
Fabian Francis Melbourne, Brisbane Bears, Port Adelaide 1991, 1993–1995 & 1997–2001 109 61
Lance Franklin Hawthorn, Sydney 2005–present 142 451
Jeff Garlett Carlton 2009–present 54 99
Cruize Garlett North Melbourne 2009–present 25 5
Adam Goodes # Sydney 1999–2015 372 464
Colin Graham Melbourne 1975–1978 35 32
Jonathon Griffin Adelaide, Fremantle 2007–present 48 11
Antoni Grover Fremantle 1999–2012 202 27
Curtly Hampton Template:AFL Adelaide 2012–present
Jarrod Harbrow Western Bulldogs, Gold Coast 2007–present 92 23
Roger Hayden Fremantle 2002–2004 & 2006–2011 128 14
Des Headland Brisbane Lions, Fremantle 1999–2010 166 177
Bradley Hill Hawthorn 2012–present
Josh Hill Western Bulldogs, West Coast 2007–2012 66 75
Stephen Hill Fremantle 2009–present 67 43
Eddie Hocking Adelaide 1991 11 4
Rhan Hooper Brisbane Lions, Hawthorn 2006–2010 54 56
Eddie Jackson Melbourne 1947–1952 84 10
Syd Jackson Carlton 1969–1976 136 165
Jarrhan Jacky Adelaide 2008 3 1
Shadrach James Fitzroy 1940–1941 18 20
Russell Jeffrey St Kilda, Brisbane Bears 1987–1992 50 4
Leroy Jetta Essendon 2007–present 62 51
Neville Jetta Melbourne 2009–present 30 18
Graham Johncock Adelaide 2002–2013 206 99
Bert Johnson North Melbourne 1965–1968 31 5
Chris Johnson # Fitzroy, Brisbane Lions 1994–2007 264 172
Joe Johnson Fitzroy 1904–1906 55 15
Michael Johnson Fremantle 2005–present 125 51
Percy Johnson North Melbourne 1951–1955 52 4
Bob Jones St Kilda 1988–1989 20 2 Father of Liam Jones.
Liam Jones Western Bulldogs 2010–present 25 25 Son of Bob Jones.
Liam Jurrah Melbourne 2009–2012 35 81 Cousin of Liam Patrick.
Adam Kerinaiua Brisbane Bears 1992 3 1
Dale Kickett Fitzroy, West Coast, St Kilda, Essendon & Fremantle 1990–1992 & 1994–2002 181 64
Derek Kickett North Melbourne, Essendon, Sydney 1989–1996 152 179
Steven Koops Fremantle, Western Bulldogs 1996–2004 89 49
Andrew J. Krakouer Richmond, Collingwood 2001–2007 & 2011–2013 125 137 Son of Jim Krakouer, nephew of Andrew L. and Phil Krakouer and cousin of Nathan Krakouer.
Andrew L. Krakouer North Melbourne 1988–1989 8 8 Brother of Jim and Phil Krakouer and uncle of Andrew J. and Nathan Krakouer.
Jim Krakouer North Melbourne, St Kilda 1982–1991 147 236 Brother of Andrew L. and Phil Krakouer, father of Andrew J. Krakouer and uncle of Nathan Krakouer.
Nathan Krakouer Port Adelaide, Gold Coast 2007–2011 53 15 Nephew of Andrew L. Krakouer, Jim and Phil Krakouer and cousin of Andrew J. Krakouer.
Phil Krakouer North Melbourne, Footscray 1982–1989 & 1991 148 231 Nephew of Andrew L. Krakouer, Jim and Phil Krakouer and cousin of Andrew J. Krakouer.
Jamie Lawson Sydney 1991–1994 61 29
Shawn Lewfatt Essendon 1995 3 2
Chris Lewis # West Coast 1987–1998 & 2000 215 259
Rex Liddy Gold Coast 2011 4 0
Michael Long # Essendon 1989–1993 & 1995–2001 190 143
Andy Lovell Melbourne, West Coast 1988–1998 164 166
Andrew Lovett Essendon 2005–2009 88 93 Cousin of Nathan Lovett-Murray.
Ted Lovett Fitzroy 1963–1964 9 2
Wally Lovett Collingwood, Richmond 1982–1984 28 17
Nathan Lovett-Murray Essendon 2004–2013 125 64 Cousin of Andrew Lovett.
Malcolm Lynch Western Bulldogs 2007 2 0
Neil Marshall West Coast 1997–1998 4 0
Brandon Matera Gold Coast 2011–present 12 15 Son of Wally Matera and nephew of Peter and Phillip Matera.
Peter Matera West Coast 1990–2002 253 217 Brother of Phillip and Wally Matera and uncle of Brandon Matera.
Phillip Matera West Coast 1996–2005 179 389 Brother of Peter and Wally Matera and uncle of Brandon Matera.
Wally Matera West Coast, Fitzroy 1987–1990 56 65 Brother of Peter and Phillip Matera and father of Brandon Matera.
Steven May Gold Coast 2011–present 9 0
Adrian McAdam North Melbourne 1993–1995 36 92 Brother of Gilbert and Greg McAdam.
Gilbert McAdam St Kilda, Brisbane Bears 1991–1996 111 89 Brother of Adrian and Greg McAdam.
Greg McAdam St Kilda 1985 10 13 Brother of Adrian and Gilbert McAdam.
Norm McDonald # Essendon 1947–1953 128 3
Ashley McGrath Brisbane Lions 2001–present 176 135 Brother of Cory and Toby McGrath.
Cory McGrath Essendon 2001–2006 78 18 Brother of Ashley and Toby McGrath.
Marty McGrath Richmond 2004–present 4 6 Cousin of Ashley, Cory and Toby McGrath.
Michael McLean Footscray, Brisbane Bears, Brisbane Lions 1983–1989 & 1991–1997 183 40
Andrew McLeod # Adelaide 1995–2010 340 275 Norm Smith Medallist 1997 & 1998.
Clem Michael Fremantle 1998–2000 43 11 Son of Stephen Michael.
Terry Milera St Kilda 2012–2014 30 31
Harry Miller Hawthorn 2005–2006 18 13
Michael Mitchell Richmond 1987–1991 81 103
Gavin Mitchell Fremantle, St Kilda 1996–2000 88 82
Daniel Motlop Kangaroos, Port Adelaide 2001–2011 130 208 Brother of Shannon and Steven Motlop and cousin of Marlon Motlop.
Marlon Motlop Port Adelaide 2008–2009 5 2 Cousin of Daniel, Shannon and Steven Motlop.
Shannon Motlop Kangaroos, Melbourne 1999–2006 64 36 Brother of Daniel and Steven Motlop and cousin of Marlon Motlop.
Steven Motlop Geelong 2010–present 5 2 Brother of Daniel and Shannon Motlop and cousin of Marlon Motlop.
Robert Muir St Kilda 1974–1978, 1980 & 1984 68 23
Justin Murphy Richmond, Carlton, Geelong, Essendon 1994–2005 185 151
Allan Murray Port Adelaide, St Kilda 2002–2006 16 13 Brother of Derek Murray.
Derek Murray Port Adelaide 1999–2002 23 7 Brother of Allan Murray.
Mark Naley Carlton 1987–1990 65 74 1991 Magarey Medallist
Phil Narkle St Kilda, West Coast 1984–1987 & 1990 66 55
Murray Newman West Coast 2012–present 4 3
Doug Nicholls Fitzroy 1932–1937 54 2
Jarrad Oakley-Nichols Richmond 2006–2009 13 1
Michael O’Loughlin # Sydney 1995–2009 303 521 Brother of Ricky O’Loughlin.
Ricky O’Loughlin Adelaide 2000–2001 9 2 Brother of Michael O’Loughlin.
Liam Patrick Gold Coast 2011–2013 13 6
Danyle Pearce Port Adelaide, Fremantle 2005–present 134 72
Derek Peardon Richmond 1968–1971 20 1
Carl Peterson Hawthorn 2010 17 13
Jared Petrenko Adelaide 2009–present 36 17
Byron Pickett # North Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Melbourne 1997–2007 204 177
Lionel Proctor Richmond 1998–2001 20 4
Albert Proud Brisbane Lions 2007–2010 29 10
Elkin Reilly South Melbourne 1962–1966 51 2
Cyril Rioli Hawthorn 2008–present 83 101 Nephew of Maurice Rioli and cousin of Dean Rioli.
Dean Rioli Essendon 1999–2006 100 91 Nephew of Maurice Rioli and cousin of Cyril Rioli.
Maurice Rioli # Richmond 1982–1987 118 80 Uncle of Cyril and Dean Rioli.
Relton Roberts Richmond 2010 2 0
Jason Roe Collingwood, Brisbane Lions 2006–2009 50 7
Lachlan Ross Essendon 1994 2 1
Shannon Rusca Brisbane Lions 2000 2 0
Patrick Ryder Essendon 2006–present 117 70
Ashley Sampi West Coast 2002–2006 78 97
Eddie Sansbury North Melbourne 2004–2008 40 21
Sam Sheldon Brisbane Lions 2009–present 40 10 Son of Ken Sheldon.
Casey Sibosado Fremantle 2011 1 1
George Simmonds Melbourne 1924 4 4
Dwayne Simpson Fremantle 2001 2 1
Zephaniah Skinner Western Bulldogs 2011–2012 8 5
Brennan Stack Western Bulldogs 2009–2011 21 17
Brian Stanislaus Sydney 1991 1 0
Charlie Stewart Footscray 1961 20 4
Cameron Stokes Hawthorn 2008–2010 20 10
Mathew Stokes Geelong 2006–present 111 165
Byron Sumner Sydney 2011 1 0
Richard Tambling Richmond, Adelaide 2005–2013 124 62
Garth Taylor Fremantle 1999–2000 15 13
Kevin Taylor South Melbourne, Fitzroy 1981 & 1984 15 25
Troy Taylor Richmond 2010 4 0
Lindsay Thomas North Melbourne 2007–present 91 113
Wade Thompson Port Adelaide 2009 2 0
Alan Thorpe Sydney, Western Bulldogs 1992–1994 15 28
Shane Tongerie Adelaide 1994 4 3
Troy Ugle West Coast 1988–1993 43 43
Keren Ugle Fremantle 2001 4 2
Travis Varcoe Geelong 2007–present 100 113
Rod Waddell Carlton, Geelong 1981–1984 25 12
Andrew Walker Carlton 2004–present 127 93
Michael Walters Fremantle 2009–present 11 14
Jim Wandin St Kilda 1952–1953 17 3
Gavin Wanganeen # Essendon, Port Adelaide 1991–2006 300 202
Elijah Ware Port Adelaide 2005 2 1
Gerrick Weedon West Coast 2011 1 0
Isaac Weetra Melbourne 2008 2 0
Sharrod Wellingham Collingwood, West Coast 2008–present 72 42
Daniel Wells North Melbourne 2003–present 170 102
Mark West Western Bulldogs 1996–1998 16 3
Matthew Whelan Melbourne 2000–2009 150 15
Darryl White # Brisbane Lions 1992–2005 268 165
Djaran Whyman North Melbourne 2007 3 4
Mark Williams Hawthorn, Essendon 2002–2010 115 247
Russell Williams Essendon 1994 3 1
Chad Wingard Port Adelaide 2012–present 10 10
Nicholas Winmar St Kilda 5 2 Nephew of Nicky Winmar.
Nicky Winmar St Kilda, Western Bulldogs 1987–1999 251 317 Uncle of Nicholas Winmar.
David Wirrpanda West Coast 1996–2009 227 131
Clinton Wolf Fremantle 1995 4 0
Austin Wonaeamirri Melbourne 2008 & 2010–2011 31 37
Dion Woods Fremantle 2001–2005 59 7
Peter Yagmoor Collingwood 2012–2012 2 0
Chris Yarran Carlton 2009–present 45 31

benfti · November 27, 2016, 7:02am

So your saying it’s only ok to exclude because of racial profiling?

benfti · November 27, 2016, 7:08am

How come Chris Yarran quits football because aboriginal and not mental health reasons?

benfti · November 27, 2016, 7:10am

Problem is G,some kids with merit don’t get drafted because of their skin color in some cases because of the perception you outlined

efc1robbo · November 27, 2016, 7:21am

Thought I would re qoute this, just because

BrickBomber · November 27, 2016, 7:33am

I don’t want to step on your toes because you are clearly the expert but I am, quite honestly, ashamed that this racism continues to be posted on this forum. On this point of “merit” I also feel, at times, that the game is rigged.

White/urban kids have, often, an easier time of proving their ‘merit’ under a system that sees them have access to schooling, coaching, mentoring and other supports whilst rural kids can go overlooked in communities that rarely, if ever, see a recruiter visit more than once or twice a year. Not only that, these kids are playing within a community system that may value certain skills (flair, run, goal sense) versus the in vogue “defensive lock down, two way running, hard nosed” skills that are being taught through the TAC Cup. So, in my opinion, it can be hard to show “merit” of adhering to a structured gameplan and zonal defence when that is not the system that you are playing within your junior comp.

It flows into my strong objection to calling everything certain (usually indig.) players do “magic” or “gifted” rather than recognising that the ability to snap from the boundary off one step whilst being tackled is actually the result of hours and hours and hours of repetition and talent.

Anyway I don’t want to say anymore because it is not my area of expertise, but the concept of “merit” based recruiting is all fine… except when you don’t consider who sets the definition and standards of “meritorious” in the first place.