Im not a draft expert, but all the draft experts rate our crop.
Im not sure were the pace issue comes from (I do, its just Ben being Ben), but given we added McGrath, have Zaka, Raz,Trav, Walla, Morgan, Redman, Zerret, connor, Jack Merret, Marty, Bags, laverde, langford, long, parish, francis, etc, and our key forward (Joe) is a better runner and line breaker than half the mids in the comp. Both guys last year Morgan and Redman are described specifically line breaking midfielders with great pace, Morgan was the fasted in testing at one stage.
You may not like the picks but to say we havenât got pace just looking for a new way to say we lack of "excitement machinesâ we arenât exactly as slow as say Hawthorn, look at bulldogs their run came from Joahanasen, who Jackets tried to get hard in the Crameri deal funnily enough.
All the picks like they were picked at a much lower then were they were rated on most pre draft assessments, making them look like very good picks, expect Ridley who sounds an awful lot like Ariel Steinberg aka the 4th Hemsworth brother. MK.2
I would only rate Raz, Walla, Trav and Morgan as elite pace. McGrath tests like he has it. The rest are just solid runners, I think/thought we needed one more mongoose.
I think we have good pace around the ground, a skinny kid with elite pace isnât really going to see games in 2017 as well, how many sides have 6-7 buys with âelite paceâ, JJ was great for bulldogs yet you still had people bagging his disposal. Hawks have what 2 blokes with pace and use the footy exceptionally well, seems to have worked for them.
Pretty sure that the all conquering 2000 flag side wasnât too blessed with pace around the ground, especially the midfield, but that turned out ok.
This current crop do have a sprinkling of pace around the ball but our problem hasnât been so much about pace but more about our poor skills issues the past ten or so seasons, of which I believe the club has identified and are working hard on rectifying with our current and future lists.
The Swans, Geelong and Hawks have all dominated the past decade with midfields of strong inside clearance mids with exceptionally elite disposal skills that havenât been blessed with much blistering pace apart from 2-3 outside runners with a bit of polish to help finish off their grunt work.
I think that the club is getting to the point of finding that right balance of good decision making, highly skilled, ball-magnet clearance and tackling beasts interspersed with the pacey outside finishers that we have so desired for so long now.
I cannot wait to see McGrath, Zerrett and Parish combining together with the returning old firm and with Raz, Walla and Travis Colyer as the icing on top from next year onwards.
I also believe that with the recruitment of McGrath that it compliments our pressure around the ball even further. There were signs this season with our young mids that we are starting to build possibly one of the toughest midfields in the league for the future.
Iâm more than satisfied with the work that Dodoro, Keane and the recruiting group have been able to achieve under trying circumstances these past three seasons in the draft.
We need a team that is going to meld into a force not get players for solo performances. I decide to put trust behind Dodo that he and Co. did what they thought was best for EFC to become a powerhouse again. If it happens then we will praise DodoâŚif it doesnât then back to the drawing board. I prefer to get behind the decisions and EFC & enjoy the show which I think is going to be pretty exciting.
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.
Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.
And at the risk of being called aâŚ
Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)
This is just from draftees over the last few years⌠and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).
It's no secret that many Aboriginal footballers face challenges that are far different from the rest of the country, just as indigenous Australia broadly faces serious and different challenges.
But to just cherry pick a list of indigenous players with known issues without any context, or acknowledgement of the large numbers of non-indigenous players with off field issues, not to mention the numbers of indigenous players who donât get into career affecting trouble, yeah you are running the risk of being called a racist.
Hereâs a breakdown of how your post reads:
âWe donât pick indigenous players, because indigenous players are trouble. Hereâs some very selective evidence to support itâ
If you donât want to be accused of being racist, try actually taking the time to look at the entire issue. If not donât post anything.
Thatâs a very lazy way of reading my post.
If anything, itâs racist to constantly single out aboriginal players, almost as if their aboriginality alone should be seen as a reason to draft them. I believe in drafting on merit, not on skin colour.
Problem is G,some kids with merit donât get drafted because of their skin color in cases because of the bullshit perception you outlined
I donât want to step on your toes because you are clearly the expert but I am, quite honestly, ashamed that this racism continues to be posted on this forum. On this point of âmeritâ I also feel, at times, that the game is rigged.
White/urban kids have, often, an easier time of proving their âmeritâ under a system that sees them have access to schooling, coaching, mentoring and other supports whilst rural kids can go overlooked in communities that rarely, if ever, see a recruiter visit more than once or twice a year. Not only that, these kids are playing within a community system that may value certain skills (flair, run, goal sense) versus the in vogue âdefensive lock down, two way running, hard nosedâ skills that are being taught through the TAC Cup. So, in my opinion, it can be hard to show âmeritâ of adhering to a structured gameplan and zonal defence when that is not the system that you are playing within your junior comp.
It flows into my strong objection to calling everything certain (usually indig.) players do âmagicâ or âgiftedâ rather than recognising that the ability to snap from the boundary off one step whilst being tackled is actually the result of hours and hours and hours of repetition and talent.
Anyway I donât want to say anymore because it is not my area of expertise, but the concept of âmeritâ based recruiting is all fine⌠except when you donât consider who sets the definition and standards of âmeritoriousâ in the first place.
I must have missed the racism. What racisim? This is a forum populated by people that love our players and just have a preference that they give 100%. I have never read a situation where a poster has criticised a recruiting selection of a player based on his Aboriginality. If anything, an indigenous selection is applauded universally.There has been absolutely no racism in this thread.
The necessity for Laverde and Langford to legitimately âmake itâ as midfielders is becoming increasingly important when I look at the other players who shape as the core of our future on ball brigade.
One thing I found odd about the draft was how few mature aged players were taken. I think there was only one +25 year old taken (DeBoer) and no one expected him to be taken at all.
There was one 23 year old (cannot recall who he was though).
The rest were all 22 years and under.
Was the u18 talent that good or have most of the mature age recruits already been taken in previous drafts and there arenât many left to work with.
We might see a large number of mature age players taken at the rookie draft. Itâll also be interesting how teams draft given the likelihood of the rookie list being scrapped next year and everyone is just a common listed player.
Im not a draft expert, but all the draft experts rate our crop.
Im not sure were the pace issue comes from (I do, its just Ben being Ben), but given we added McGrath, have Zaka, Raz,Trav, Walla, Morgan, Redman, Zerret, connor, Jack Merret, Marty, Bags, laverde, langford, long, parish, francis, etc, and our key forward (Joe) is a better runner and line breaker than half the mids in the comp. Both guys last year Morgan and Redman are described specifically line breaking midfielders with great pace, Morgan was the fasted in testing at one stage.
You may not like the picks but to say we havenât got pace just looking for a new way to say we lack of "excitement machinesâ we arenât exactly as slow as say Hawthorn, look at bulldogs their run came from Joahanasen, who Jackets tried to get hard in the Crameri deal funnily enough.
All the picks like they were picked at a much lower then were they were rated on most pre draft assessments, making them look like very good picks, expect Ridley who sounds an awful lot like Ariel Steinberg aka the 4th Hemsworth brother. MK.2
I would only rate Raz, Walla, Trav and Morgan as elite pace. McGrath tests like he has it. The rest are just solid runners, I think/thought we needed one more mongoose.
I agree, we need to keep more pace coming through. Another guys with jets in the 20s would have been nice.
Hopefully we can find a rookie with some serious pace and skill.
Im not a draft expert, but all the draft experts rate our crop.
Im not sure were the pace issue comes from (I do, its just Ben being Ben), but given we added McGrath, have Zaka, Raz,Trav, Walla, Morgan, Redman, Zerret, connor, Jack Merret, Marty, Bags, laverde, langford, long, parish, francis, etc, and our key forward (Joe) is a better runner and line breaker than half the mids in the comp. Both guys last year Morgan and Redman are described specifically line breaking midfielders with great pace, Morgan was the fasted in testing at one stage.
You may not like the picks but to say we havenât got pace just looking for a new way to say we lack of "excitement machinesâ we arenât exactly as slow as say Hawthorn, look at bulldogs their run came from Joahanasen, who Jackets tried to get hard in the Crameri deal funnily enough.
All the picks like they were picked at a much lower then were they were rated on most pre draft assessments, making them look like very good picks, expect Ridley who sounds an awful lot like Ariel Steinberg aka the 4th Hemsworth brother. MK.2
I would only rate Raz, Walla, Trav and Morgan as elite pace. McGrath tests like he has it. The rest are just solid runners, I think/thought we needed one more mongoose.
I think we have good pace around the ground, a skinny kid with elite pace isnât really going to see games in 2017 as well, how many sides have 6-7 buys with âelite paceâ, JJ was great for bulldogs yet you still had people bagging his disposal. Hawks have what 2 blokes with pace and use the footy exceptionally well, seems to have worked for them.
I do actually agree, we cant break through presses with our disposal so for me I was figuring we could run through them if our guys are quicker than their guys
My gut feel on the night was Dodoro thought at least one player like Florent, Venebles, Pepper, Simpkin. Hayward or English might slip but every player we likely had listed to hopefully slip at our 2nd pick actually didnt. You could tell we had to re-assess. I was a big McGrath fan so I am very happy with that pick and I think we did very well getting Begley, Mutch and Clarke but there is a great unknown on Ridley. Utility players are hard to work out where they actually site in sides.
Hope we consider LeBois which would add some balance to the new comers and fill a need if he works out.
I will say the research and time spent this year on looking across Australia has given me some faith we made good calls. Talking to a few experts they are very positive in our picks.
Begley to me is gonna be an interesting one. I have this weird feeling heâll either never play a game or become top 10 or even 5 on our list. At pick 29 we must be pretty confident heâll become something.
I donât think pace is a problem on our list at all. At all. Colyer Orazio Tippa are all quick, Zach and Darcy move the ball really quickly. Gleeson and McKenna provide good drive off HB. Morgan in the side adds another layer. I donât think itâs a problem at all. As HM has pointed out I think getting a few brutes to replace Hocking Stanton Watson is important and weâve tried to do that here. Iâll be honest and say none of Clarke Begley or Mutch really blow my hair back but Iâm not a recruiter and Iâm more than happy to watch their VFL campaigns with great interest next year.
Ridley is fascinating too - I really see him being another Langford.
My gut feel on the night was Dodoro thought at least one player like Florent, Venebles, Pepper, Simpkin. Hayward or English might slip but every player we likely had listed to hopefully slip at our 2nd pick actually didnt. You could tell we had to re-assess. I was a big McGrath fan so I am very happy with that pick and I think we did very well getting Begley, Mutch and Clarke but there is a great unknown on Ridley. Utility players are hard to work out where they actually site in sides.
Hope we consider LeBois which would add some balance to the new comers and fill a need if he works out.
I will say the research and time spent this year on looking across Australia has given me some faith we made good calls. Talking to a few experts they are very positive in our picks.
I have a theory that we probably considered Kym on our last pick but Clarke was to good to pass up
One thing Iâve really liked about our recent drafting has been that we are going for a lot of players who not only have a bit of skill, but who also seem to be super competitive - those ânever out of the contest, dog with a bone, leave everything out on the field, despise getting beaten, work to get the very best out of themselvesâ types. Sounds like all 5 of this yearâs crop show plenty of this trait and I wonder if it was perhaps the key factor that tipped the Number 1 in McGrathâs favour.
Add the newbies to the likes of Parish, Francis, Tippungwuti, Laverde, Z Merrett, Ambrose, Dea, Daniher from the younger generation and the more experienced likes of Hocking, Hurley, Baguley, Hooker, Howlett, Watson.
This team will play a relentless, aggressive brand of football. We are going to hit opposition teams hard and we are going to keep coming at them. We wonât be intimidated by anyone. This is the type of Essendon I grew up watching. Everyone feared us because no matter how far behind we were, they knew we were never out of the game.
Just on a flight from Sydney back to Melbourne. Gil, Wayne Campbell and brendon gale are all on it. I overheard Campbell and Gil talking about setterfield and the bombers not having the balls to bid on him. Got away from me a bit but sounded like dodoro (not 100% it was him but a bombers rep anyway) asked Campbell after the draft if they would have matched. To which he basically said â â â â off. Did we blink and take McGrath so we could retain the status of pick 1? Personally if we rated setterfield at 1 think we should've bid.
It would be difficult to pick up Setterfeild in two years time if he was already on our list. Lol.
This whole âits ok, weâll get him in two years anywayâ stuff is complete crap imo. If they are any good, theyâll cost us way more than the original pick anyway.
Hereâs hoping Jackets cut a deal with Woosh that if we went full vanilla at the national draft he was allowed to load up on sprinkles in the rookie draft.
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.
Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.
And at the risk of being called aâŚ
Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)
This is just from draftees over the last few years⌠and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).
Michael Long
Nicky Winmar
Gavin Wanganeen
Nathan Lovett-Murray
Adam Goodes
Michael OâLoughlin
This is just off field importance not even considering ability
So yeah I am gonna call you a racist. And Iâm not sure why more on this site arenât being called out for it
Because your examples are a decade old and the best of all time?
And while Iâm no acolyte of G, Deckham if you have an opposing view then make it.
You donât ask the person who makes the first point to make your counter-point for you. Make it yourself or shut up.
Were clubs better at developing aboriginal talent a decade ago?
I donât know.
But recent historyâŚG has a prima face case.
Donât just lazily call him racist.
Edit: also, Michael OâLoughlin? Not sure you want to go there.
In my opinion, it has nothing to do with skin color. Gen Y are just a bunch of â â â â â â â that feel they are entitled to everything! But thatâs just my opinion.
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.
Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.
And at the risk of being called aâŚ
Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)
This is just from draftees over the last few years⌠and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).
Michael Long
Nicky Winmar
Gavin Wanganeen
Nathan Lovett-Murray
Adam Goodes
Michael OâLoughlin
This is just off field importance not even considering ability
So yeah I am gonna call you a racist. And Iâm not sure why more on this site arenât being called out for it
Because your examples are a decade old and the best of all time?
And while Iâm no acolyte of G, Deckham if you have an opposing view then make it.
You donât ask the person who makes the first point to make your counter-point for you. Make it yourself or shut up.
Were clubs better at developing aboriginal talent a decade ago?
I donât know.
But recent historyâŚG has a prima face case.
Donât just lazily call him racist.
Edit: also, Michael OâLoughlin? Not sure you want to go there.
In my opinion, it has nothing to do with skin color. Gen Y are just a bunch of â â â â â â â that feel they are entitled to everything! But thatâs just my opinion.
This whole "its ok, we'll get him in two years anyway" stuff is complete crap imo. If they are any good, they'll cost us way more than the original pick anyway.
Mmmmm not necessarily. I still maintain some hope. Unless they have Selwood, Hurley, Franklin, Judd starts to their careers I can't see their value being more than pick 3 (McLuggage) and pick 5 (Setterfield). How many top picks from Brisbane, GC and Gws have we seen given away for peanuts over the last 3-4 years?!
Given Brisbaneâs bad on and off field situation, in particular their super poor track record of player retention, you would have to think a Victorian club could be a real chance. Then you have GWSâs insane midfield stocks for the next 10 years and the fact that Setterfield still has to overcome his inconsistent form and injury issues to break into that team.
With those factors in play I certainly believe they could be attainable in 2 years. Especially if disco has spent a lot of time getting to know the players and their familys this year.
