Can someone detail these and explain them ?
How do the sanctions effect our ability to trade this year and next year. ?
Our sanctions are for this year. Trading is not effected at all, we can trade as normal. Father son bidding is somewhat nobbled. 1st and 2nd round draft picks have gone, we got an end-of-first round pick back after negotiation.
We have no first round pick, and no second round pick. We have a compensation pick at the end of of the first round (currently pick 19), which takes precedence over any other end of first round pick that may be handed out (for free agency or priority picks or whatever).
Based on current ladder position, we should have picks 12, 30, 48, 56, etc (well, pretty much, I think a couple of teams are using left over GC/GWS compensation picks, but whatever)
Instead we'll have picks 19, 48, 66, etc
There are no explicit restrictions on us getting free agents or trading. Obviously, however, having limited picks means we have a lot less flexibility when trading.
Edit: what saladin said
The only relevant point missed, is that the compo pick (19) can't be used for a FS pick/bid.
and that if someone bids a 2nd round pick that would be after our normal pick (if it existed) then we can use our 3rd round pick to draft the F/S player.The only relevant point missed, is that the compo pick (19) can't be used for a FS pick/bid.
i.e. if we could normally have used our 3rd round or later picks to get a F/S selection, we still can, but if we would have needed our 1st or 2nd round picks we are stuffed.
Thanks guys , understand it a bit better now.
Right . Another question.
Teams are not allowed to tank right?
So what if you press reset and heavily delist and trade out a lot of old but good players, so that the teams average age drops to 22, this action sends you down to finish last for the next few seasons. Then you aim for a 5 year campaign, picking early round 1 & 2 draft picks for 3 years in a row?
This is all public knowledge, because you dont do this without explaining to the members and fans
Strategic Defacto tanking ? Is it legal? Whats to stop it ?
Should we have done this in 2005 ?, because if we did, maybe we would have had our 17th premiership in 2010 or 2011
Didn't we try in 2006 and end up with Gumby :( ?
Trading is not effected at all, we can trade as normal.
Great.
We can not trade the compensation pick 19 correct? must be used in the draft on a kid?
Didn't we try in 2006 and end up with Gumby :( ?
RIP Gumby 2014 also total write off. Poor buxxer.
One of my mates married a girl who had endless gyno plumbing issues: he reckoned he had married a dud ! Probably needed to submit her to a full medical, prior to embarking on marriage !. Pre-nup scans and all that .
Clubs need to be able to scan players hammies and see if theres a potential problem in them. Would be a really useful test as a pre-draft, but I heard they are not allowed to do that sort of thing???.
Thanks guys , understand it a bit better now.
Right . Another question.
Teams are not allowed to tank right?
So what if you press reset and heavily delist and trade out a lot of old but good players, so that the teams average age drops to 22, this action sends you down to finish last for the next few seasons. Then you aim for a 5 year campaign, picking early round 1 & 2 draft picks for 3 years in a row?
This is all public knowledge, because you dont do this without explaining to the members and fans
Strategic Defacto tanking ? Is it legal? Whats to stop it ?
Should we have done this in 2005 ?, because if we did, maybe we would have had our 17th premiership in 2010 or 2011
Yes, because Carlton and Collingwood are setting the competition on fire at the moment.
We can not trade the compensation pick 19 correct? must be used in the draft on a kid?
I don’t think that’s correct…but I don’t know where/how to get confirmation.
Didn't we try in 2006 and end up with Gumby :( ?
RIP Gumby 2014 also total write off. Poor buxxer.
One of my mates married a girl who had endless gyno plumbing issues: he reckoned he had married a dud ! Probably needed to submit her to a full medical, prior to embarking on marriage !. Pre-nup scans and all that .
Clubs need to be able to scan players hammies and see if theres a potential problem in them. Would be a really useful test as a pre-draft, but I heard they are not allowed to do that sort of thing???.
Clubs can do a medical, pretty sure all the draftees agree to submit to it when they register for the draft.
I'm not sure it extends to exploratory spinal surgery, which we would've needed to do to figure Gumby's issues out.
The only relevant point missed, is that the compo pick (19) can't be used for a FS pick/bid.
No we can't, but I can't remember where I heard this. As far as I know we're ruled out of the F/S system this year. It wouldn't make sense anyway as we don't have a 2 round bid which would advantage us if a player slipped though our first pick (which is also out of normal position)
Sorry were you asking or confirming?
He was confirming.
This is still legal, and has been deployed many times before. It only becomes tanking if you set out to lose a match deliberately (i.e. choosing the wrong match ups, taking people off or in the extreme, ordering players not to win). Going out to "get games in kids" etc is legal, as long as the team and coach has a red hot go.Thanks guys , understand it a bit better now.
Right . Another question.
Teams are not allowed to tank right?
So what if you press reset and heavily delist and trade out a lot of old but good players, so that the teams average age drops to 22, this action sends you down to finish last for the next few seasons. Then you aim for a 5 year campaign, picking early round 1 & 2 draft picks for 3 years in a row?
This is all public knowledge, because you dont do this without explaining to the members and fans
Strategic Defacto tanking ? Is it legal? Whats to stop it ?
Should we have done this in 2005 ?, because if we did, maybe we would have had our 17th premiership in 2010 or 2011
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Hawthorn got success this way, St Kilda missed by a bounce, and Geelong although they didn't fully drop down, did trade out 3-5 top players for picks to make the 1999 & 2001 drafts what they were for them. Collingwood also scored big from dropping down and getting Pendlebury AND Thomas. But as mentioned, it never worked for Carlton, Melbourne is struggling, Richmond was terrible at it, etc.
I argued at the time we should have traded out some quality in 2006 or 2007 (e.g. Lucas or Hille), and shouldn't have taken recycles such as Heffernen, Campo and Michael when our run was clearly over in 2005 (I'm not against the Allen/Murphy attempts when it seemed we could still win one). Who knows if we would have been better or worse off now. A lot depends on who you draft, eg. Gumby. Richmond wasted their top 20 picks, Hawthorn nailed them.
No, in 2006 we were really really crap and equalled our longest run of losses ever. After that when a few guys got back we probably did tank, but we certainly didn't set out to do it at the season start. That said, obviously we drafted terribly in hindsight in that draft, only Jetta and Houli are left.Didn't we try in 2006 and end up with Gumby :( ?
This is still legal, and has been deployed many times before. It only becomes tanking if you set out to lose a match deliberately (i.e. choosing the wrong match ups, taking people off or in the extreme, ordering players not to win). Going out to "get games in kids" etc is legal, as long as the team and coach has a red hot go.Thanks guys , understand it a bit better now.
Right . Another question.
Teams are not allowed to tank right?
So what if you press reset and heavily delist and trade out a lot of old but good players, so that the teams average age drops to 22, this action sends you down to finish last for the next few seasons. Then you aim for a 5 year campaign, picking early round 1 & 2 draft picks for 3 years in a row?
This is all public knowledge, because you dont do this without explaining to the members and fans
Strategic Defacto tanking ? Is it legal? Whats to stop it ?
Should we have done this in 2005 ?, because if we did, maybe we would have had our 17th premiership in 2010 or 2011
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Hawthorn got success this way, St Kilda missed by a bounce, and Geelong although they didn't fully drop down, did trade out 3-5 top players for picks to make the 1999 & 2001 drafts what they were for them. Collingwood also scored big from dropping down and getting Pendlebury AND Thomas. But as mentioned, it never worked for Carlton, Melbourne is struggling, Richmond was terrible at it, etc.
I argued at the time we should have traded out some quality in 2006 or 2007 (e.g. Lucas or Hille), and shouldn't have taken recycles such as Heffernen, Campo and Michael when our run was clearly over in 2005 (I'm not against the Allen/Murphy attempts when it seemed we could still win one). Who knows if we would have been better or worse off now. A lot depends on who you draft, eg. Gumby. Richmond wasted their top 20 picks, Hawthorn nailed them.No, in 2006 we were really really crap and equalled our longest run of losses ever. After that when a few guys got back we probably did tank, but we certainly didn't set out to do it at the season start. That said, obviously we drafted terribly in hindsight in that draft, only Jetta and Houli are left.Didn't we try in 2006 and end up with Gumby :( ?
Well the way I see it, Essendon have not done it ( radically) , probably because of the clubs loyalty to the good players of the time ( you know, the ones with 50% black blood) . But theres always some players that are not performing and the delistings and trades are limited.
Loyalty has limits. How ruthless does a club need to become. Are we seeing Collingwood do this now ?. They probably need to.
We might need to in 2017.
Thanks for your explanation Ants. I appreciate it
No, in 2006 we were really really crap and equalled our longest run of losses ever. After that when a few guys got back we probably did tank, but we certainly didn't set out to do it at the season start. That said, obviously we drafted terribly in hindsight in that draft, only Jetta and Houli are left.Didn't we try in 2006 and end up with Gumby :( ?
I don't think it's fair to say we drafted terribly, but it did end up being a terrible result. I think part of the issue was the 06 draft wasn't that good.
Gumby - injury woes couldn't have been predicted at the time, he was always going to be picked in the first few.
Jetta & Davey - both ok players. Jetta should be better than he is -but we weren't good at player development back then - if you look at the players drafted after him, we did ok.
Hislop - epic fail.
Houli - has become a good player.
Reimers - could have been anything.
Of the 6, three are 100 game players (Jetta not quite but near enough), Gumby would have been and Reimers should have been. Drafted ok, but we weren't a strong enough, good enough club to get the best of Jetta/Houli/Reimers.
We weren't a good enough, strong enough club to avoid Reimers - and Hislop - with a barge pole.