jailing people for ....................... white collar crime is just nonsenseI was with you up to here…
What? People that steal huge amounts of cash, often ripping off working stiffs in the process, don’t go to jail?
What would you propose for a deterrent for it then? Or would it just be a free for all to steal at will?
I didn’t say you do not punish them, but jailing them is a waste. Make them work for a charity, fine them heavily, etc
More people died due to the banks unethical behaviour during the gfc than any 1 murderer
More people died due to the banks unethical behaviour during the gfc than any 1 murderer
and yet not one major person went to jail for that crime
More people died due to the banks unethical behaviour during the gfc than any 1 murdererand yet not one major person went to jail for that crime
calm down Michael Moore…
How many jails should we build?As many as currently needed plus 20%.
The govt is building more and expanding others as we speak. Bed pressures are full on in prisons at the moment.
Or alternatively we could aim for rehabilitation rather than revenge and end up like the Dutch, who are having to close prisons hand over fist because there just isn’t enough people to fill them. In fact they are now housing prisoners from other countries so they at least have the numbers to keep a few facilities open.
Mind you, the chances of a national mentality that allows off shore gulags would never go for something as intelligent as that.
In someway, I think it’s a bit beyond our control unfortunately. Prisons provide so many rehabilitation resources, activities and opportunities to learn. Some prisons in Victoria are basically farms, they don’t even have a fence. The problem is the situation these people come from on the outside. The parents were/are drug addicts, they have no family, and the only people they know are other ex-convicts. It doesn’t matter what the government does, the only way they can make a true difference is by not insitutionalising those who are just your typical drug addicts, who don’t physically harm others nor traffick serious quantities. Some people commit crimes to intentionally return to prison, because it’s better than the life they have outside. I think this actually demonstrates that prisons are not the “tough” environments that everybody thinks they are.
I suppose here one could make an argument for services outside, which do also exist, however some of these people have been raised this way and know no different. You can plant the idea of a lifestyle change, but they are the ones who have to act upon it. I think the prison population is going nuts due to usual population rises, and then of course Ice…
We put too many people in jail, and a percentage of them become hardened crims, because as you said they form relationships with others, have no jobs prospects or hope and the cycle continues.
On one end of the scale, I am in favour of eliminating creeps like this guy who has just murdered 5 and hurt many. Add in the murderers, rapists and paedofiles and we eliminate the worst, who do not deserve to be part of our society.
At the other end, jailing people for road offences, non-payment of fines, drug using and white collar crime is just nonsense. I worked with a guy who embezzled $600,000 from our employer and another guy who murdered his Wife. One got 7 years jail that other got 4 years; yep the murderer was out first.
Christ Almighty where did you work, the National Rehabilitation Center.
How many jails should we build?As many as currently needed plus 20%.
The govt is building more and expanding others as we speak. Bed pressures are full on in prisons at the moment.
Or alternatively we could aim for rehabilitation rather than revenge and end up like the Dutch, who are having to close prisons hand over fist because there just isn’t enough people to fill them. In fact they are now housing prisoners from other countries so they at least have the numbers to keep a few facilities open.
Mind you, the chances of a national mentality that allows off shore gulags would never go for something as intelligent as that.
In someway, I think it’s a bit beyond our control unfortunately. Prisons provide so many rehabilitation resources, activities and opportunities to learn. Some prisons in Victoria are basically farms, they don’t even have a fence. The problem is the situation these people come from on the outside. The parents were/are drug addicts, they have no family, and the only people they know are other ex-convicts. It doesn’t matter what the government does, the only way they can make a true difference is by not insitutionalising those who are just your typical drug addicts, who don’t physically harm others nor traffick serious quantities. Some people commit crimes to intentionally return to prison, because it’s better than the life they have outside. I think this actually demonstrates that prisons are not the “tough” environments that everybody thinks they are.
I suppose here one could make an argument for services outside, which do also exist, however some of these people have been raised this way and know no different. You can plant the idea of a lifestyle change, but they are the ones who have to act upon it. I think the prison population is going nuts due to usual population rises, and then of course Ice…
We put too many people in jail, and a percentage of them become hardened crims, because as you said they form relationships with others, have no jobs prospects or hope and the cycle continues.
On one end of the scale, I am in favour of eliminating creeps like this guy who has just murdered 5 and hurt many. Add in the murderers, rapists and paedofiles and we eliminate the worst, who do not deserve to be part of our society.
At the other end, jailing people for road offences, non-payment of fines, drug using and white collar crime is just nonsense. I worked with a guy who embezzled $600,000 from our employer and another guy who murdered his Wife. One got 7 years jail that other got 4 years; yep the murderer was out first.
Christ Almighty where did you work, the National Rehabilitation Center.
Wasn’t the same place.
The guy murdered his Wife because she hid his cars keys so he couldn’t go to the Pub. Maybe when Judge gave the sentence he thought it was justifiable homocide.
Was it J-Mudd?
jailing people for ....................... white collar crime is just nonsenseI was with you up to here…
What? People that steal huge amounts of cash, often ripping off working stiffs in the process, don’t go to jail?
What would you propose for a deterrent for it then? Or would it just be a free for all to steal at will?
I didn’t say you do not punish them, but jailing them is a waste. Make them work for a charity, fine them heavily, etc
Nah fk that. Jail, … for decades … and only after stocks in the street for a week.
I worry you’re on the verge of getting punted from the club with this one comrade.
jailing people for ....................... white collar crime is just nonsenseI was with you up to here…
What? People that steal huge amounts of cash, often ripping off working stiffs in the process, don’t go to jail?
What would you propose for a deterrent for it then? Or would it just be a free for all to steal at will?
I didn’t say you do not punish them, but jailing them is a waste. Make them work for a charity, fine them heavily, etc
Fining them doesn’t work when the file bankrupcy and/or flee the country.
A guy from BoM took $230,000 cash from a Melbourne branch first thing in the morning
Idiot flew to Perth, but had to wait for a branch there to open for him to get a cheque for an international flight
By the time the banks opened over there everyone here had worked out what was going on
Anyone heard this guy may have killed someone before as a juvenile. The umbrella thing.
Anyone heard this guy may have killed someone before as a juvenile. The umbrella thing.
Yes. Not him.
Sounded a bit weird
jailing people for ....................... white collar crime is just nonsenseI was with you up to here…
What? People that steal huge amounts of cash, often ripping off working stiffs in the process, don’t go to jail?
What would you propose for a deterrent for it then? Or would it just be a free for all to steal at will?
I didn’t say you do not punish them, but jailing them is a waste. Make them work for a charity, fine them heavily, etc
Nah fk that. Jail, … for decades … and only after stocks in the street for a week.
I worry you’re on the verge of getting punted from the club with this one comrade.
So we put some silly boy or girl who rips off money from their Company or Union in jail for ten years. Money never gets paid back and these non-violent offenders get to cost us tax dollars. Put them to work and supervise them, make them pay it all back.
I have watched court proceedings where a guy who has bashed his partner, broken her nose and face, snapped her arm, broken the AVO more than once, and he gets a six month good behavior bond. The next night he turns up with a baseball bat and bashed her, the kid and a neighbour, then he gets 100 hrs community order.
And you want to put the embezzler in jail, bah !
No one said 2 wrongs make a right mate, … that argument is really irrelevant BF, and frankly I’m surprised at the lameness of it from you.
I agree they should be made to pay it back, but they can do it from jail, on supervised work gangs, where they actually have to do real & actual work, not sitting on their fat pimply privileged arses scheming about a new way to make shitloads at the expense of others.
Sorry mate, if there’s no real deterrent, it would become epidemic.
Or more epidemic than it already is …
How many families ruined because of the gfc? How many suicides? How many chances taken away from kids?
Just because the backlash of white collar crime isn’t immediate doesn’t mean the ramifications aren’t as serious.
No one said 2 wrongs make a right mate, ... that argument is really irrelevant BF, and frankly I'm surprised at the lameness of it from you.I agree they should be made to pay it back, but they can do it from jail, on supervised work gangs, where they actually have to do real & actual work, not sitting on their fat pimply privileged arses scheming about a new way to make shitloads at the expense of others.
Sorry mate, if there’s no real deterrent, it would become epidemic.
Or more epidemic than it already is …
No sure what you mean about two wrongs etc.
In my view jail is pointless. All a victim gets out of it is perhaps a sense of security that a violent perpetrator cannot do them more harm. I would have no tolerance for any violent crime and execute most offenders.
In these white collar crimes, people lose financially and never get compensation, as the perpetrator is taken out of any mainstream place to earn anything. And if you think they can makes worthwhile income legally in jail then you are mistaken.
Take their belongings, put a big tattoo on their forehead, but give them a productive chance to atone and compensate victims. Never can do this in jail.
How many families ruined because of the gfc? How many suicides? How many chances taken away from kids?Just because the backlash of white collar crime isn’t immediate doesn’t mean the ramifications aren’t as serious.
And just how many have been jailed anywhere because of the GFC ?
Don’t know what world you live in, but losing property in a scam/fraud is recoverable, being raped or murdered is not.
jailing people for ....................... white collar crime is just nonsenseI was with you up to here…
What? People that steal huge amounts of cash, often ripping off working stiffs in the process, don’t go to jail?
What would you propose for a deterrent for it then? Or would it just be a free for all to steal at will?
I didn’t say you do not punish them, but jailing them is a waste. Make them work for a charity, fine them heavily, etc
Nah fk that. Jail, … for decades … and only after stocks in the street for a week.
I worry you’re on the verge of getting punted from the club with this one comrade.
So we put some silly boy or girl who rips off money from their Company or Union in jail for ten years. Money never gets paid back and these non-violent offenders get to cost us tax dollars. Put them to work and supervise them, make them pay it all back.
I have watched court proceedings where a guy who has bashed his partner, broken her nose and face, snapped her arm, broken the AVO more than once, and he gets a six month good behavior bond. The next night he turns up with a baseball bat and bashed her, the kid and a neighbour, then he gets 100 hrs community order.
And you want to put the embezzler in jail, bah !
How many jails should we build?As many as currently needed plus 20%.
The govt is building more and expanding others as we speak. Bed pressures are full on in prisons at the moment.
Or alternatively we could aim for rehabilitation rather than revenge and end up like the Dutch, who are having to close prisons hand over fist because there just isn’t enough people to fill them. In fact they are now housing prisoners from other countries so they at least have the numbers to keep a few facilities open.
Mind you, the chances of a national mentality that allows off shore gulags would never go for something as intelligent as that.
In someway, I think it’s a bit beyond our control unfortunately. Prisons provide so many rehabilitation resources, activities and opportunities to learn. Some prisons in Victoria are basically farms, they don’t even have a fence. The problem is the situation these people come from on the outside. The parents were/are drug addicts, they have no family, and the only people they know are other ex-convicts. It doesn’t matter what the government does, the only way they can make a true difference is by not insitutionalising those who are just your typical drug addicts, who don’t physically harm others nor traffick serious quantities. Some people commit crimes to intentionally return to prison, because it’s better than the life they have outside. I think this actually demonstrates that prisons are not the “tough” environments that everybody thinks they are.
I suppose here one could make an argument for services outside, which do also exist, however some of these people have been raised this way and know no different. You can plant the idea of a lifestyle change, but they are the ones who have to act upon it. I think the prison population is going nuts due to usual population rises, and then of course Ice…
We put too many people in jail, and a percentage of them become hardened crims, because as you said they form relationships with others, have no jobs prospects or hope and the cycle continues.
On one end of the scale, I am in favour of eliminating creeps like this guy who has just murdered 5 and hurt many. Add in the murderers, rapists and paedofiles and we eliminate the worst, who do not deserve to be part of our society.
At the other end, jailing people for road offences, non-payment of fines, drug using and white collar crime is just nonsense. I worked with a guy who embezzled $600,000 from our employer and another guy who murdered his Wife. One got 7 years jail that other got 4 years; yep the murderer was out first.
No whitecollar criminal becomes a “hardened crim” from prison. In fact, these people often don’t even live in maximum security because they’re not violent, and usually well-behaved. I was referring to drug related crimes and the relationships those people have on the outside, which is part of the reason why they end up in prison in the first place.
Some white collar crims have also nearly sent their companies broke, causing people to lose jobs, they should be in prison as punishment/“deterrent”. That’s still a reasom why we sentence people, and so it should be.