I wish someone would tell us what happened because no one believes what was said at thatpress conference.Agree. But those same people won't believe the reasons even if Hird said them himself.Right now, the club would know fans / members are still grieving and emotional.
It would be nice if we had an idea when the board will address members.
Shouldn’t be too hard to send out an email early next week.I watched the presser and I heard differing stories from Hird and Little.
I heard Hird say - circumspectly but clearly - that there had been people on the board and/or the executive asking/recommending/demanding/suggesting/hinting he resign for a long time, and only when he was told that the board was unanimously in favour of his resignation, did he offer it.
I heard Little say that Hird had completely voluntarily offered his resignation in order to ‘clear the air’ for the players and the board had accepted it.
I am inclined to believe Hird’s version of events over Little’s because Little has history in trying to get rid of Hird, and at the time of last year’s Crichton he clearly had enough board support to make that happen, until threats of unfair dismissal proceedings and a supporter backlash put the frighteners on just enough board members to change their minds.
Was Hird sacked? Strictly speaking, no. Was he relentlessly and continually pressured into resigning against his personal preferences? I certainly believe so.
I genuinely believe both men hope that Hird’s resignation will mean less stress on the players. I don’t believe this hope is well-founded, and I suspect Hird believes the same.
I reckon if Hird had any measure of hope the release of the pressure cooker valve would benefit the players by walking away, he’d take it.So do I. And given that he stayed in the job since the start of 2013, and didn’t step down until it he was told that nobody on the board wanted him in the job any more, that makes it fairly obvious that he didn’t believe his resignation would help the players at all. If he did, he would have resigned a long time ago.
Nice fantasy. But that’s what it is.
Feel free to enlighten me as to what really happened then.</
blockquote> Seeing as though you are implying you have inside information please, kindly enlighten us. Or forever hold your peace.
I wish someone would tell us what happened because no one believes what was said at thatpress conference.Talk to quite a few of the players and their parents if you really want to find out and try James Hird's Lawyer.
Sorry but it is no longer YOURS or OUR club. It is now the AFL's club.I do agree with you Locotus, have cancelled mine. It is not my club anymore, it is a travesty, just a place for AFL yes men. Sickened and ■■■■■■ off. Note some are on Twitter saying that they have spoken to, or had it word of mouth from various committee/ club people that all was amiable and they now know James was fine with the decision. CRAP !!Stalwarts of the red and black still call it their club, irrespective of recent seriously testing times.
I am so angry the board must go, mr little has put a knife through this club and destroyed friendships.Little Afl's man through and through.Just so you all know our wonderful leader told Bomber on the morning of the best and fairest that he would coach.
He has forced two legends of our club OUT.
I don’t know how to express the anger i feel
Good people gone and will not come back.
I hope the players protest by being thrashed and walk off with their fists clenched in the air.Everybody should continue putting in their membership money to the club. The less reliant we are on AFL money, the more independence we have from them.I admire your optimism bomber001 - and I really wish it was the case in reality - but surely the last few years have proved beyond a shadow of doubt that all clubs, including Essendon, are the AFL’s “■■■■■■■”, regardless of where members money is spent. I’m still of the opinion that the board’s delivery this week of James Hird’s head on a stick - despite I may add the overwhelming support for James amongst the players and fans - was more about appeasing the AFL bigwigs than anything else…and please don’t tell me that it was James’s decision. I saw the post match presser and his chat from the rooms after the Crows game…he was pushed.
As for the debate about who should be their next coach…don’t waste your breath. Gill and co will be working that out as we speak and will inform the club in due course, after a few leaks to the Fairfax media.
The utter lack of any moral compass by the AFL and the Essendon board is the reason I cannot be a member any more, at least until hopefully one day the game is wrenched from the hands of these utter shysters.
I wish I could view it as just about footy because I can rationalise that; that’s why I stayed a member when Sheeds was shown the door and through the whole Matty Knights debacle. I totally respect all those of you who have determined to stick with the club but, for me, this has become a matter of principle way beyond the confines of footy. To continue as a member of the Essendon Footy Club, for me, would be to turn a blind eye to the shameful mistreatment and lack of support shown to a man who chose to stand up for what is right and support his mates against an AFL instigated media witch-hunt the likes of which hasn’t been seen in Australia since the Lindy Chamberlain affair.
…now I await the chorus of people telling me to get lost.
Understand how you feel, but to be honest I was much closer to spitting the dummy back in 2013 when James was suspended and the team cut from the finals.
I am angry with club and the players, but numb after all the saga crap. Reckon it has gone as expected and many of us are too exhausted to react.
I will go to the Collingwood and Richmond games and hope we play OK, but have little enthusiasm.
I was hoping someone like you could keep it civil, but then you bring up crap about Barrett and other scum, but back to your queries.You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.
Firstly, why would Hird need to, or instruct Weapon about compliance?
Secondly, in answer to your question, because most of the footy industry misguidedly thinks Hird, as the coach, had significant and overarching responsibility for the management of Dank who was a rotten egg at Windy Hill.All I’m saying is Robson’s ineptitude lead to cloudy lines of responsibility and management in the broader footy department, and Hird, along with Thompson got caught up to some extent with dealing, engaging and managing Dank during his time at the club. That effectively means they shoulder some, read some, part of the blame of allowing Dank to run a less than vigorously monitored program. I buy in to the proposition that Hird and Thompson and Reid took their eye off the ball when it came to Dank. I don’t buy in to the proposition that the head coach under the circumstances prevailing at Windy Hill is totally blameless. Unfortunately, this small measure of blame has been allowed to manifest by the AFL, ASADA and most of the press into 3 years of misery and scapegoating. Is getting rid of Hird the easy option? Probably. Is it better for the club than not letting him go? Probably.
The lines of communication were poor.
But Hird’s job is coach. Not to correct a poor line of communication between the board and individuals. That is what a boards job is to do.
There was nothing wrong with what Hird wrote in his email.
What is wrong is that instructions and the lines of communication were ignored.
None of that is Hird’s fault.Evans knew what was going on when Hird, Bomber and Reid approached him about it. He didn’t think the board would approve the cost to get rid of the problem so they ignored it and hoped it would go away.
A formal letter to Robinson saying you have ignored instructions and lines of communication, we are forewarning you that if this occurs again, your employment will be terminated.
Hird had nothing to answer for on governance issues.
If you think Hird has no apportionment of blame for allowing Dank to run the program the way he did, that’s to be respected. Given the circumstances at Windy Hill in 2011/2012, I don’t agree.
A portion of the blame? Yes.
Is a year out of coaching fair? No.
What blame and punishment have the board had for something that they are directly in charge of? None.Hird has been punished more than anyone else in the club for what’s happened.
Need to look at punishing others who haven’t been held to account.
Everyone assumes something “wrong” occurred - despite 3 years of smears and huge fines etc , no proof of anything untoward - NADA (thanks Hurls)
This is the real crime - Numerous players and HIrd’s coaching career wrecked by witch hunt and conflicted spineless board.
I was hoping someone like you could keep it civil, but then you bring up crap about Barrett and other scum, but back to your queries.You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.
Firstly, why would Hird need to, or instruct Weapon about compliance?
Secondly, in answer to your question, because most of the footy industry misguidedly thinks Hird, as the coach, had significant and overarching responsibility for the management of Dank who was a rotten egg at Windy Hill.All I’m saying is Robson’s ineptitude lead to cloudy lines of responsibility and management in the broader footy department, and Hird, along with Thompson got caught up to some extent with dealing, engaging and managing Dank during his time at the club. That effectively means they shoulder some, read some, part of the blame of allowing Dank to run a less than vigorously monitored program. I buy in to the proposition that Hird and Thompson and Reid took their eye off the ball when it came to Dank. I don’t buy in to the proposition that the head coach under the circumstances prevailing at Windy Hill is totally blameless. Unfortunately, this small measure of blame has been allowed to manifest by the AFL, ASADA and most of the press into 3 years of misery and scapegoating. Is getting rid of Hird the easy option? Probably. Is it better for the club than not letting him go? Probably.
The lines of communication were poor.
But Hird’s job is coach. Not to correct a poor line of communication between the board and individuals. That is what a boards job is to do.
There was nothing wrong with what Hird wrote in his email.
What is wrong is that instructions and the lines of communication were ignored.
None of that is Hird’s fault.Evans knew what was going on when Hird, Bomber and Reid approached him about it. He didn’t think the board would approve the cost to get rid of the problem so they ignored it and hoped it would go away.
A formal letter to Robinson saying you have ignored instructions and lines of communication, we are forewarning you that if this occurs again, your employment will be terminated.
Hird had nothing to answer for on governance issues.
If you think Hird has no apportionment of blame for allowing Dank to run the program the way he did, that’s to be respected. Given the circumstances at Windy Hill in 2011/2012, I don’t agree.
A portion of the blame? Yes.
Is a year out of coaching fair? No.
What blame and punishment have the board had for something that they are directly in charge of? None.Hird has been punished more than anyone else in the club for what’s happened.
Need to look at punishing others who haven’t been held to account.
what about hamilton? sacked quietly brownlow night.
what about robson? sacked then 2 weeks later job at melb victory. where is his tarnished reputation?
I was hoping someone like you could keep it civil, but then you bring up crap about Barrett and other scum, but back to your queries.You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.
Firstly, why would Hird need to, or instruct Weapon about compliance?
Secondly, in answer to your question, because most of the footy industry misguidedly thinks Hird, as the coach, had significant and overarching responsibility for the management of Dank who was a rotten egg at Windy Hill.All I’m saying is Robson’s ineptitude lead to cloudy lines of responsibility and management in the broader footy department, and Hird, along with Thompson got caught up to some extent with dealing, engaging and managing Dank during his time at the club. That effectively means they shoulder some, read some, part of the blame of allowing Dank to run a less than vigorously monitored program. I buy in to the proposition that Hird and Thompson and Reid took their eye off the ball when it came to Dank. I don’t buy in to the proposition that the head coach under the circumstances prevailing at Windy Hill is totally blameless. Unfortunately, this small measure of blame has been allowed to manifest by the AFL, ASADA and most of the press into 3 years of misery and scapegoating. Is getting rid of Hird the easy option? Probably. Is it better for the club than not letting him go? Probably.
The lines of communication were poor.
But Hird’s job is coach. Not to correct a poor line of communication between the board and individuals. That is what a boards job is to do.
There was nothing wrong with what Hird wrote in his email.
What is wrong is that instructions and the lines of communication were ignored.
None of that is Hird’s fault.Evans knew what was going on when Hird, Bomber and Reid approached him about it. He didn’t think the board would approve the cost to get rid of the problem so they ignored it and hoped it would go away.
A formal letter to Robinson saying you have ignored instructions and lines of communication, we are forewarning you that if this occurs again, your employment will be terminated.
Hird had nothing to answer for on governance issues.
If you think Hird has no apportionment of blame for allowing Dank to run the program the way he did, that’s to be respected. Given the circumstances at Windy Hill in 2011/2012, I don’t agree.
A portion of the blame? Yes.
Is a year out of coaching fair? No.
What blame and punishment have the board had for something that they are directly in charge of? None.
Hird has been punished more than anyone else in the club for what’s happened.
Need to look at punishing others who haven’t been held to account.
I was hoping someone like you could keep it civil, but then you bring up crap about Barrett and other scum, but back to your queries.You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.
Firstly, why would Hird need to, or instruct Weapon about compliance?
Secondly, in answer to your question, because most of the footy industry misguidedly thinks Hird, as the coach, had significant and overarching responsibility for the management of Dank who was a rotten egg at Windy Hill.All I’m saying is Robson’s ineptitude lead to cloudy lines of responsibility and management in the broader footy department, and Hird, along with Thompson got caught up to some extent with dealing, engaging and managing Dank during his time at the club. That effectively means they shoulder some, read some, part of the blame of allowing Dank to run a less than vigorously monitored program. I buy in to the proposition that Hird and Thompson and Reid took their eye off the ball when it came to Dank. I don’t buy in to the proposition that the head coach under the circumstances prevailing at Windy Hill is totally blameless. Unfortunately, this small measure of blame has been allowed to manifest by the AFL, ASADA and most of the press into 3 years of misery and scapegoating. Is getting rid of Hird the easy option? Probably. Is it better for the club than not letting him go? Probably.
The lines of communication were poor.
But Hird’s job is coach. Not to correct a poor line of communication between the board and individuals. That is what a boards job is to do.
There was nothing wrong with what Hird wrote in his email.
What is wrong is that instructions and the lines of communication were ignored.
None of that is Hird’s fault.Evans knew what was going on when Hird, Bomber and Reid approached him about it. He didn’t think the board would approve the cost to get rid of the problem so they ignored it and hoped it would go away.
A formal letter to Robinson saying you have ignored instructions and lines of communication, we are forewarning you that if this occurs again, your employment will be terminated.
Hird had nothing to answer for on governance issues.
If you think Hird has no apportionment of blame for allowing Dank to run the program the way he did, that’s to be respected. Given the circumstances at Windy Hill in 2011/2012, I don’t agree.
OK, have to ask, were you there at the time to know these circumstances ?.
I was hoping someone like you could keep it civil, but then you bring up crap about Barrett and other scum, but back to your queries.You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.
Firstly, why would Hird need to, or instruct Weapon about compliance?
Secondly, in answer to your question, because most of the footy industry misguidedly thinks Hird, as the coach, had significant and overarching responsibility for the management of Dank who was a rotten egg at Windy Hill.All I’m saying is Robson’s ineptitude lead to cloudy lines of responsibility and management in the broader footy department, and Hird, along with Thompson got caught up to some extent with dealing, engaging and managing Dank during his time at the club. That effectively means they shoulder some, read some, part of the blame of allowing Dank to run a less than vigorously monitored program. I buy in to the proposition that Hird and Thompson and Reid took their eye off the ball when it came to Dank. I don’t buy in to the proposition that the head coach under the circumstances prevailing at Windy Hill is totally blameless. Unfortunately, this small measure of blame has been allowed to manifest by the AFL, ASADA and most of the press into 3 years of misery and scapegoating. Is getting rid of Hird the easy option? Probably. Is it better for the club than not letting him go? Probably.
The lines of communication were poor.
But Hird’s job is coach. Not to correct a poor line of communication between the board and individuals. That is what a boards job is to do.
There was nothing wrong with what Hird wrote in his email.
What is wrong is that instructions and the lines of communication were ignored.
None of that is Hird’s fault.Evans knew what was going on when Hird, Bomber and Reid approached him about it. He didn’t think the board would approve the cost to get rid of the problem so they ignored it and hoped it would go away.
A formal letter to Robinson saying you have ignored instructions and lines of communication, we are forewarning you that if this occurs again, your employment will be terminated.
Hird had nothing to answer for on governance issues.
If you think Hird has no apportionment of blame for allowing Dank to run the program the way he did, that’s to be respected. Given the circumstances at Windy Hill in 2011/2012, I don’t agree.
I was hoping someone like you could keep it civil, but then you bring up crap about Barrett and other scum, but back to your queries.You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.
Firstly, why would Hird need to, or instruct Weapon about compliance?
Secondly, in answer to your question, because most of the footy industry misguidedly thinks Hird, as the coach, had significant and overarching responsibility for the management of Dank who was a rotten egg at Windy Hill.All I’m saying is Robson’s ineptitude lead to cloudy lines of responsibility and management in the broader footy department, and Hird, along with Thompson got caught up to some extent with dealing, engaging and managing Dank during his time at the club. That effectively means they shoulder some, read some, part of the blame of allowing Dank to run a less than vigorously monitored program. I buy in to the proposition that Hird and Thompson and Reid took their eye off the ball when it came to Dank. I don’t buy in to the proposition that the head coach under the circumstances prevailing at Windy Hill is totally blameless. Unfortunately, this small measure of blame has been allowed to manifest by the AFL, ASADA and most of the press into 3 years of misery and scapegoating. Is getting rid of Hird the easy option? Probably. Is it better for the club than not letting him go? Probably.
The lines of communication were poor.
But Hird’s job is coach. Not to correct a poor line of communication between the board and individuals. That is what a boards job is to do.
There was nothing wrong with what Hird wrote in his email.
What is wrong is that instructions and the lines of communication were ignored.
None of that is Hird’s fault.
Evans knew what was going on when Hird, Bomber and Reid approached him about it. He didn’t think the board would approve the cost to get rid of the problem so they ignored it and hoped it would go away.
A formal letter to Robinson saying you have ignored instructions and lines of communication, we are forewarning you that if this occurs again, your employment will be terminated.
Hird had nothing to answer for on governance issues.
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Wow, even when not being discussed you still manage to bury Hird. You are like a broken record. Let it go already, the guy is gone.
Fairly obvious there’s a campaign going on here.
Hird has to be discredited further so the club can rebuild.
If it was Hird’s fault and no-one else’s then we can all love each other again. And buy lots of memberships.
As blatant as it is shameful.
Not me stalwart.
Don’t see anyone else doing it, champ.
And unlike everyone else here, I have no idea who the ■■■■ you are.
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Wow, even when not being discussed you still manage to bury Hird. You are like a broken record. Let it go already, the guy is gone.
Fairly obvious there’s a campaign going on here.
Hird has to be discredited further so the club can rebuild.
If it was Hird’s fault and no-one else’s then we can all love each other again. And buy lots of memberships.
As blatant as it is shameful.
Not me stalwart.
I was hoping someone like you could keep it civil, but then you bring up crap about Barrett and other scum, but back to your queries.You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.
Firstly, why would Hird need to, or instruct Weapon about compliance?
Secondly, in answer to your question, because most of the footy industry misguidedly thinks Hird, as the coach, had significant and overarching responsibility for the management of Dank who was a rotten egg at Windy Hill.
All I’m saying is Robson’s ineptitude lead to cloudy lines of responsibility and management in the broader footy department, and Hird, along with Thompson got caught up to some extent with dealing, engaging and managing Dank during his time at the club. That effectively means they shoulder some, read some, part of the blame of allowing Dank to run a less than vigorously monitored program. I buy in to the proposition that Hird and Thompson and Reid took their eye off the ball when it came to Dank. I don’t buy in to the proposition that the head coach under the circumstances prevailing at Windy Hill is totally blameless. Unfortunately, this small measure of blame has been allowed to manifest by the AFL, ASADA and most of the press into 3 years of misery and scapegoating. Is getting rid of Hird the easy option? Probably. Is it better for the club than not letting him go? Probably.
https://www.facebook.com/psandsl5/posts/10153015227129147my husband has started the above as he is looking to see how many members are interested in getting a no confidence vote upheld at the AGM
This is all good and well. But what are you proposing as an alternative? Also, if you want people to take your husband seriously, can I suggest you have someone proof-read the petition material.
It all looks pretty amateur, and despite my views on how the Board has handled things, I wouldn’t support this without a legitimate alternative, and a professional pitch.
https://www.facebook.com/psandsl5/posts/10153015227129147my husband has started the above as he is looking to see how many members are interested in getting a no confidence vote upheld at the AGM
Sack the board? What then? More club instability?
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Ah, so it was Hird’s fault all along. Him and him alone. Thank’s for clearing that up. Now that he’s gone all will be Honky Dory.
my husband has started the above as he is looking to see how many members are interested in getting a no confidence vote upheld at the AGM
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ■■■■ about the players?Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasn’t been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasn’t the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. I’ve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dank’s supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dank’s direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs “to do their thing”. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as “lack of governance”
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about “internal control procedures” or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC weren’t clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinson’s email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I don’t think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
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Emails travel back and forward between people in an organisation all the time with requests, information or an instruction. Hird told Robinson that the supplement program had to be WADA Compliant and from all the evidence presented so far it was.
Why the hell would Hird need to absolve himself of links to Dank? Dank was employed by the EFC as a contractor working for the Football Department under Hamilton, and would have come in contact with Hird. There have been many, many people with much stronger links to Dank than Hird is this saga but for some reason that “crime” has been shouldered by Hird.
Red, I get it that you are not a Hird supporter but really some of your rants are becoming a lot like the stuff preached by Wilson, Barrett, Smith and Co.