Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?
Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ā ā ā ā about the players?
So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?
Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasnāt been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasnāt the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. Iāve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dankās supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dankās direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs āto do their thingā. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as ālack of governanceā
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about āinternal control proceduresā or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC werenāt clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinsonās email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I donāt think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Wow, even when not being discussed you still manage to bury Hird. You are like a broken record. Let it go already, the guy is gone.
Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?
Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ā ā ā ā about the players?
So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?
Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasnāt been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasnāt the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. Iāve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dankās supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dankās direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs āto do their thingā. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as ālack of governanceā
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about āinternal control proceduresā or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
I think we all know the lines of reporting at EFC werenāt clearly delineated and Robson failed in this respect. As a consequence, you had a situation arising where the coaches got involved in what was going on with Dank and Robinson. Robinsonās email to Hird bout the new protocols to be established in January 2012 is testament to that, and Bomber chiming in on a few occasions is further evidence the management lines were all over the shop.
Apportionment of blame for Dank being allowed to run around unfettered at Windy Hill during 2011/2012 and the ensuing 3 year saga is a grey area and debatable.
I donāt think Hird has ever come out and absolved himself of any coach/employee links to Dank, and that probably hangs him.
-
Wow, even when not being discussed you still manage to bury Hird. You are like a broken record. Let it go already, the guy is gone.
Fairly obvious thereās a campaign going on here.
Hird has to be discredited further so the club can rebuild.
If it was Hirdās fault and no-one elseās then we can all love each other again. And buy lots of memberships.
As blatant as it is shameful.
Another factor I'm not sure if anyone else has touched on is the welfare of the players. If we assume that at least some of them did love Hird & we acknowledge that they are mentally hurting already because of the WADA appeal then how exactly is lobbing the coach getting sacked going to help the players mental state. It would appear from everything coming out of the club for 3 years that Hird has been a rock for the players so now we pretty much sell the message that its because of the players performance that Hird has gone. Do we really think this is a good move for the players now?
Has anything the board's done suggested they give a ā ā ā ā about the players?
So what you are saying is that under Little there has no been no remedial action taken by the club to fix up the shambolic internal controls governing the footy department?
Strangely enough the Ziggy report hasnāt been the panacea for all our ills. One might think improving the club wasnāt the real reason for his report. Hmmmmm
So the internal control procedures were not shambolic?
No, the procedures were not shambolic, procedures are simply procedures. Iāve seen no evidence the procedures instructed people to not follow management lines & to act on their own volition. The management which is ultimately controlled by the board through the CEO & management chain they implement was shambolic & everything the board has done since then has continued to indicate the board is shambolic therefore the management of the club has not improved hence why the Ziggy report was a failure in every way possible & the need for another review now after yet another poorly handled season off-field.
You obviously are not familiar with internal control procedures. Go and have a listen to Jobe's responses to Lyon on FC about what was going on with Dank and his injection program. The lack of internal control procedures in the footy department were abysmal.
Procedure are merely pieces of paper telling someone how to complete a task. Procedures are prepared , reviewed and audited by the senior management team (in most companies this task is handled by a QA Department). Therefore the CEO, Football Operations Manager, Chief Medical Officer, Fitness Manager are responsible for ensuring that procedures are followed and the necessary documents generated by the procedures, completed and reviewed.
The fact that Jobe says that Dankās supplement program was disorganised is a reflection of the poor management skills of Robinson, an employee of the EFC and who was Dankās direct supervisor. Robinson reported to Hamilton who reported to Robson. The performance of these people should be monitored by the Board. If the Board did not monitor these people then they failed in their duty to the shareholders. If they did monitor what was going on but allowed the program to continue then they are negligent again. Hamilton, Robson and Evans jumped ship early because they knew they were in trouble. Robinson has kicked a big goal for himself despite his tears.
The AFL themselves do not provide standardised documentation or protocols but instead allowed the clubs āto do their thingā. There were 11 other clubs that were shown to not have proper procedures in place for their supplements programs, had no lines of responsibility or accountability - I think it has been referred to as ālack of governanceā
This entire saga happened under the watch of many people still on the Board. This is not about āinternal control proceduresā or lack of them. It is about the people who were entrusted with the responsibility of running our club.
The Board no longer felt Hird as coach was āin the best interests of the clubā.
Hird said numerous times immediately prior to his removal that he loved coaching us, believed he was a good coach and wanted to continue as coach.
I wish someone would tell us what happened because no one believes what was said at thatpress conference.
Agree.
But those same people won't believe the reasons even if Hird said them himself.
Right now, the club would know fans / members are still grieving and emotional.
It would be nice if we had an idea when the board will address members.
Shouldnāt be too hard to send out an email early next week.
I watched the presser and I heard differing stories from Hird and Little.
I heard Hird say - circumspectly but clearly - that there had been people on the board and/or the executive asking/recommending/demanding/suggesting/hinting he resign for a long time, and only when he was told that the board was unanimously in favour of his resignation, did he offer it.
I heard Little say that Hird had completely voluntarily offered his resignation in order to āclear the airā for the players and the board had accepted it.
I am inclined to believe Hirdās version of events over Littleās because Little has history in trying to get rid of Hird, and at the time of last yearās Crichton he clearly had enough board support to make that happen, until threats of unfair dismissal proceedings and a supporter backlash put the frighteners on just enough board members to change their minds.
Was Hird sacked? Strictly speaking, no. Was he relentlessly and continually pressured into resigning against his personal preferences? I certainly believe so.
I genuinely believe both men hope that Hirdās resignation will mean less stress on the players. I donāt believe this hope is well-founded, and I suspect Hird believes the same.
I reckon if Hird had any measure of hope the release of the pressure cooker valve would benefit the players by walking away, heād take it.
So do I. And given that he stayed in the job since the start of 2013, and didnāt step down until it he was told that nobody on the board wanted him in the job any more, that makes it fairly obvious that he didnāt believe his resignation would help the players at all. If he did, he would have resigned a long time ago.
Nice fantasy. But thatās what it is.
Feel free to enlighten me as to what really happened then.
You should know that canāt be done here. But take my word, what you think happened is wrong. Not trying to wind people up or anything, but there are some good people being seriously abused for things that just didnāt happen, and it ā ā ā ā ā me. And Iām no happier than anyone else with the situation by the way.
I wish someone would tell us what happened because no one believes what was said at thatpress conference.
Agree.
But those same people won't believe the reasons even if Hird said them himself.
Right now, the club would know fans / members are still grieving and emotional.
It would be nice if we had an idea when the board will address members.
Shouldnāt be too hard to send out an email early next week.
I watched the presser and I heard differing stories from Hird and Little.
I heard Hird say - circumspectly but clearly - that there had been people on the board and/or the executive asking/recommending/demanding/suggesting/hinting he resign for a long time, and only when he was told that the board was unanimously in favour of his resignation, did he offer it.
I heard Little say that Hird had completely voluntarily offered his resignation in order to āclear the airā for the players and the board had accepted it.
I am inclined to believe Hirdās version of events over Littleās because Little has history in trying to get rid of Hird, and at the time of last yearās Crichton he clearly had enough board support to make that happen, until threats of unfair dismissal proceedings and a supporter backlash put the frighteners on just enough board members to change their minds.
Was Hird sacked? Strictly speaking, no. Was he relentlessly and continually pressured into resigning against his personal preferences? I certainly believe so.
I genuinely believe both men hope that Hirdās resignation will mean less stress on the players. I donāt believe this hope is well-founded, and I suspect Hird believes the same.
I reckon if Hird had any measure of hope the release of the pressure cooker valve would benefit the players by walking away, heād take it.
So, walking away three weeks before the end of the season is releasing pressure on the players? Strange, because they seem pretty torn up about it.
So I guess we should expect WADA to drop the appeal any day now.
The idea is that Hird walking away is the beginning of a fresh start. Is that better than him staying under the same conditions as the last 3 years and onwards?
No one would expect the players to be rapt by it when it occurred.
Ok, so it wasnāt about the welfare of the players. Glad we cleared that up. Fresh start with the WADA case still happening and three weeks left of this bad season. Are you being serious?
What exactly about the aftermath of this clusterfukc feels fresh to you?
You can't rule out the WADA case being dropped.
Is the short term future better than him staying under the same conditions as the last 3 years and onwards?
We've had nearly 3 years to eradicate the clusterfukc and haven't been capable of doing it
WADA will drop their case now that Hird is gone? Donāt hold your breath.
Is the short term future better now that heās gone? Demonstrably not. Thatās why I asked you but seeing as youāre determined to avoid answering that, Iāll assume you donāt have an answer. Hirdās gone and thatās all they/you want. Never mind the logic behind it.
If everyone keeps repeating CLEAR AIR! CLEAR AIR! then maybe people will stop asking and forget about it. We all gobble up the AFLās ā ā ā ā sandwich and get told from now on, weāll get real food! But the reality is, itās just one ā ā ā ā sandwich after another. We did it in August 2013 and weāre doing it now.
Meanwhile, WADA have a big bowl of ā ā ā ā stew theyāre just dying to serve us and keep saying, āyouāre not getting real food until weāre absolutely convinced we canāt force you to eat this stewā.
Bit early to be making that declaration. Iām going with Hirdy gone, is likely to serve the club better under the current administrations than Hirdy staying, and the clusterfukc keeps chugging along.
I wish someone would tell us what happened because no one believes what was said at thatpress conference.
Agree.
But those same people won't believe the reasons even if Hird said them himself.
Right now, the club would know fans / members are still grieving and emotional.
It would be nice if we had an idea when the board will address members.
Shouldnāt be too hard to send out an email early next week.
I watched the presser and I heard differing stories from Hird and Little.
I heard Hird say - circumspectly but clearly - that there had been people on the board and/or the executive asking/recommending/demanding/suggesting/hinting he resign for a long time, and only when he was told that the board was unanimously in favour of his resignation, did he offer it.
I heard Little say that Hird had completely voluntarily offered his resignation in order to āclear the airā for the players and the board had accepted it.
I am inclined to believe Hirdās version of events over Littleās because Little has history in trying to get rid of Hird, and at the time of last yearās Crichton he clearly had enough board support to make that happen, until threats of unfair dismissal proceedings and a supporter backlash put the frighteners on just enough board members to change their minds.
Was Hird sacked? Strictly speaking, no. Was he relentlessly and continually pressured into resigning against his personal preferences? I certainly believe so.
I genuinely believe both men hope that Hirdās resignation will mean less stress on the players. I donāt believe this hope is well-founded, and I suspect Hird believes the same.
I reckon if Hird had any measure of hope the release of the pressure cooker valve would benefit the players by walking away, heād take it.
So, walking away three weeks before the end of the season is releasing pressure on the players? Strange, because they seem pretty torn up about it.
So I guess we should expect WADA to drop the appeal any day now.
The idea is that Hird walking away is the beginning of a fresh start. Is that better than him staying under the same conditions as the last 3 years and onwards?
No one would expect the players to be rapt by it when it occurred.
Ok, so it wasnāt about the welfare of the players. Glad we cleared that up. Fresh start with the WADA case still happening and three weeks left of this bad season. Are you being serious?
What exactly about the aftermath of this clusterfukc feels fresh to you?
You can't rule out the WADA case being dropped.
Is the short term future better than him staying under the same conditions as the last 3 years and onwards?
We've had nearly 3 years to eradicate the clusterfukc and haven't been capable of doing it
WADA will drop their case now that Hird is gone? Donāt hold your breath.
Is the short term future better now that heās gone? Demonstrably not. Thatās why I asked you but seeing as youāre determined to avoid answering that, Iāll assume you donāt have an answer. Hirdās gone and thatās all they/you want. Never mind the logic behind it.
If everyone keeps repeating CLEAR AIR! CLEAR AIR! then maybe people will stop asking and forget about it. We all gobble up the AFLās ā ā ā ā sandwich and get told from now on, weāll get real food! But the reality is, itās just one ā ā ā ā sandwich after another. We did it in August 2013 and weāre doing it now.
Meanwhile, WADA have a big bowl of ā ā ā ā stew theyāre just dying to serve us and keep saying, āyouāre not getting real food until weāre absolutely convinced we canāt force you to eat this stewā.
Bit early to be making that declaration. Iām going with Hirdy gone, is likely to serve the club better under the current administrations than Hirdy staying, and the clusterfukc keeps chugging along.
I wish someone would tell us what happened because no one believes what was said at thatpress conference.
Agree.
But those same people won't believe the reasons even if Hird said them himself.
Right now, the club would know fans / members are still grieving and emotional.
It would be nice if we had an idea when the board will address members.
Shouldnāt be too hard to send out an email early next week.
I watched the presser and I heard differing stories from Hird and Little.
I heard Hird say - circumspectly but clearly - that there had been people on the board and/or the executive asking/recommending/demanding/suggesting/hinting he resign for a long time, and only when he was told that the board was unanimously in favour of his resignation, did he offer it.
I heard Little say that Hird had completely voluntarily offered his resignation in order to āclear the airā for the players and the board had accepted it.
I am inclined to believe Hirdās version of events over Littleās because Little has history in trying to get rid of Hird, and at the time of last yearās Crichton he clearly had enough board support to make that happen, until threats of unfair dismissal proceedings and a supporter backlash put the frighteners on just enough board members to change their minds.
Was Hird sacked? Strictly speaking, no. Was he relentlessly and continually pressured into resigning against his personal preferences? I certainly believe so.
I genuinely believe both men hope that Hirdās resignation will mean less stress on the players. I donāt believe this hope is well-founded, and I suspect Hird believes the same.
I reckon if Hird had any measure of hope the release of the pressure cooker valve would benefit the players by walking away, heād take it.
So do I. And given that he stayed in the job since the start of 2013, and didnāt step down until it he was told that nobody on the board wanted him in the job any more, that makes it fairly obvious that he didnāt believe his resignation would help the players at all. If he did, he would have resigned a long time ago.
Nice fantasy. But thatās what it is.
Feel free to enlighten me as to what really happened then.
You should know that canāt be done here. But take my word, what you think happened is wrong. Not trying to wind people up or anything, but there are some good people being seriously abused for things that just didnāt happen, and it ā ā ā ā ā me. And Iām no happier than anyone else with the situation by the way.
I wish someone would tell us what happened because no one believes what was said at thatpress conference.
Agree.
But those same people won't believe the reasons even if Hird said them himself.
Right now, the club would know fans / members are still grieving and emotional.
It would be nice if we had an idea when the board will address members.
Shouldnāt be too hard to send out an email early next week.
I watched the presser and I heard differing stories from Hird and Little.
I heard Hird say - circumspectly but clearly - that there had been people on the board and/or the executive asking/recommending/demanding/suggesting/hinting he resign for a long time, and only when he was told that the board was unanimously in favour of his resignation, did he offer it.
I heard Little say that Hird had completely voluntarily offered his resignation in order to āclear the airā for the players and the board had accepted it.
I am inclined to believe Hirdās version of events over Littleās because Little has history in trying to get rid of Hird, and at the time of last yearās Crichton he clearly had enough board support to make that happen, until threats of unfair dismissal proceedings and a supporter backlash put the frighteners on just enough board members to change their minds.
Was Hird sacked? Strictly speaking, no. Was he relentlessly and continually pressured into resigning against his personal preferences? I certainly believe so.
I genuinely believe both men hope that Hirdās resignation will mean less stress on the players. I donāt believe this hope is well-founded, and I suspect Hird believes the same.
I reckon if Hird had any measure of hope the release of the pressure cooker valve would benefit the players by walking away, heād take it.
So do I. And given that he stayed in the job since the start of 2013, and didnāt step down until it he was told that nobody on the board wanted him in the job any more, that makes it fairly obvious that he didnāt believe his resignation would help the players at all. If he did, he would have resigned a long time ago.
Nice fantasy. But thatās what it is.
Feel free to enlighten me as to what really happened then.