Just thinking through where our improvement next year is going to come from and made the realisation that our seconds have been rubbish for a long time. For all the money spent on development coaches, programs etc. surely this is one of the more important aspects of successfully developing good footballers. You will notice a lot of the good senior teams have really strong seconds teams, it creates a culture of winning from the bottom up and fast tracks the younger players development if they are playing in successful teams. I think it's time to look at making the VFL team into a top side a priority, get in a quality experienced coach, pay for some quality recruits and start playing in some grand finals. Maybe bomber should have more of an influence over the team to get that expert coaching into the guys as soon as possible.
We should merge with Bendigo!
I'd prefer to look at making the AFL team into a top side a priority, but whatever floats your boat.
Trouble is once you get injuries to your list it becomes more difficult to cover these players in the 2s. Back in the 80s we were very strong through the list but had more players on that list than actually took to the field so we could carry injuries. Look at the footscray team on the weekend - Full of senior players which means that either the 1s were ■■■■■ and they started tanking towards the end of the season to get these players enough games or they were injured and only just got games in to play reserves footy. I'm picking the 1st reason. They have players in that side that aren't AFL level but very good in the VFL. Grant and Jones to note.
We had way too many injuries for our VFL side to compete this year.
Browne and Hams out for the year doesn’t help, along with KAV and Dalgleish who got injured about 5 times this year. Don’t forget Pears, Gregory and Thurlow were out for long stints too.
It's generally a harder thing to do than you'd expect. Very often the needs to a strong VFL side are in direct competition with the development needs of their aligned AFL side.
Aligned VFL sides stand and fall on the strength of their VFL listed players. The AFL listed players can never be relied on to be available cos if they're playing well they'll get called up to the ones, and the AFL listed players that you CAN rely on having available are disproportionately likely to be skinny kids straight out of the draft.
So you want a strong core of VFL listed players, but then you run into the problem that an aligned side will give an AFL listed player a game ahead of a VFL player 9 times out of 10, so a club with a lot of good VFL listed players will inevitably have a bunch who miss out on VFL games frequently and therefore are likely to look elsewhere at the end of the season. Plus the AFL side will generally want to develop kids in the position they've been drafted to play even if there is a VFL listed player who is better in that position right now, and so the VFL side's success can often be hampered by having to play skinny unready AFL-listed kids in, for example, key positions instead of solid journeyman mature-aged VFL listed blokes who are more likely to win you VFL games.
I'd prefer to look at making the AFL team into a top side a priority, but whatever floats your boat.
Essendon were the reserves premiers in 1999, 1992 and 1983.
Enough said.
I have thought this way for some time.
But I think of it from a slightly different point of view.
Success breeds success. Get the vFL team competitive to win premierships and that experience is invaluable.
Don't believe me? Ask Geelong or Box Hill.
I have thought this way for some time.
But I think of it from a slightly different point of view.
Success breeds success. Get the vFL team competitive to win premierships and that experience is invaluable.
Don't believe me? Ask Geelong or Box Hill.
Like when Box Hill won the flag in 2001 or 02 and the Hawks loaded up only to fall into a massive heap, before priority picks got them back on track.
AFL = Development Team.
I have thought this way for some time.
But I think of it from a slightly different point of view.
Success breeds success. Get the vFL team competitive to win premierships and that experience is invaluable.
Don't believe me? Ask Geelong or Box Hill.
Geelong VFL won the premiership in 2007 (same time as AFL) and 2012
Box Hill won it in 2013 (same as AFL)
Maybe a good AFL team breeds a good VFL team too?
I'd prefer to look at making the AFL team into a top side a priority, but whatever floats your boat.
Essendon were the reserves premiers in 1999, 1992 and 1983.
Enough said.
didn't geelong win it with chappy, stevie J et all in 2003 before they making their run on the finals the next year and getting pipped by the lions in the prelim.
I'd prefer to look at making the AFL team into a top side a priority, but whatever floats your boat.
Essendon were the reserves premiers in 1999, 1992 and 1983.
Enough said.
didn't geelong win it with chappy, stevie J et all in 2003 before they making their run on the finals the next year and getting pipped by the lions in the prelim.
That team was loaded. Ablett, Bartel, Kelly, Chapman, Johnson....pretty decent.
didn't geelong win it with chappy, stevie J et all in 2003 before they making their run on the finals the next year and getting pipped by the lions in the prelim.
I'd prefer to look at making the AFL team into a top side a priority, but whatever floats your boat.
Essendon were the reserves premiers in 1999, 1992 and 1983.
Enough said.
That team was loaded. Ablett, Bartel, Kelly, Chapman, Johnson....pretty decent.
With bomber refusing to let any of them up until they were more rounded players. Made then earn every second of AFL time. Made them hungry and desperate.
Should have seen our reserves side in the ressies GF of 92. Oh wait... you did - in the AFL GF of 93.
Footscray have made the VFL Grand Final in their first year of existence. Just put a bit of money into it. 8 really strong VFL listed players, good coaches and access to our world class facilities.
We have to stop pulling out all the good players from the VFL side and putting them into the AFL side. Everytime a player improves, we pull them out and stick them in the AFL side
I'd prefer to look at making the AFL team into a top side a priority, but whatever floats your boat.
Essendon were the reserves premiers in 1999, 1992 and 1983.
Enough said.
didn't geelong win it with chappy, stevie J et all in 2003 before they making their run on the finals the next year and getting pipped by the lions in the prelim.
2002. Which included, of the great side, Kelly (2001) Bartel (2001) Hunt (2000) Steve Johnson (2001) Ablett (2001) Chapman (99).
Not sure where this 'not being selected EVER' comes from.
Most of them - as well as Wojack, Scarlett, Ling, Corey, Enright et al - were given a fair run (5+ games) in the AFL. Some of them stayed up, those 6 came back down after a good taste.
Pretty much standard operating practice.
The VFL side also had more than a handful of solid AFL players, including a pretty much completely AFL-listed spine - Tim McGrath 220 AFL games, David Mensch 150 games, James Rahilly 70 games, brent Grgic 60 games, Mitchell White (150 games for the Weagles), Peter Street went on to play 70 odd games.
I daresay if we could stick 6 of our best 1st & 2nd year kids, who were all good enough to force a decent number of AFL games, alongside 800- odd games of AFL experience in an almost completely listed side, we'd win the VFL as well.
Interestingly Swans had OKeeffe, Amon Buchanan, Luke Ablett and Schneider line up for Port in that GF, as they were aligned at that point.
Footscray have made the VFL Grand Final in their first year of existence. Just put a bit of money into it. 8 really strong VFL listed players, good coaches and access to our world class facilities.
I agree they traded well but Footscray have alot of talls that are VFL standard that havent made the grade at AFL level Grant, Cordy, Jones, Campbell, Redpath, Dickson (mid tall), Roberts, Talia, Austin. Most VFL teams have 3 or 4 talls at the required level but most are VFL based players.
Port Melbourne have issues attracting key talls and on the weekend that was the difference. For example Hugh Sandilands is 189cm and was playing key forward and second ruck.
Our AFL list is lacking depth in key talls and our Essendon VFL team have had issues with obtaining talls through recruitment.
Improve this area and then we will be more competitive vs most VFL teams.
I'd prefer to look at making the AFL team into a top side a priority, but whatever floats your boat.
Essendon were the reserves premiers in 1999, 1992 and 1983.
Enough said.
Enough indeed. That they were different eras with different list management constraints and that there are plenty of counter examples of competative AFL teams with average state sides. As Minion said very often the needs of VFL sides are in direct competition with the development needs of their aligned AFL side. The argument that players develop faster in great VFL sides as opposed to ordinary ones isn't remotely shown to be causally related. In fact the fastest way to improve the VFL side would simply be to recruit better VFL players and play them in front of our young kids.
But I don't think that is what the OP meant. In reality what the VFL shows us is we are lacking in depth in several areas (which we already knew) and that we need some more talented young kids coming through, and both of those are more to do drafting and recruiting AFL players. Sure adding talent and improving our depth may improve our results at VFL level but would be a side effect of improving our AFL list, not a specific focus on getting the VFL team "right".