Our game style this year can win finals.
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This year seems to be going the same as last year. Heading for ninth.
I hope I am wrong and we make the eight. Then we need to win a final. Probably more than one.
As far as i am concerned winning a final is the make or break point. It always has been.
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Winning a final means nothing if we don’t win the Premiership, and that’s the team we’re working on building. I have no doubt that even if we won a final and got kicked out the following week people on here would dispose of there ‘win a final or bust’ mentality and be all in on bust.
Completely disagree.
A lot can be taken into next year from this year and removing that stigma of not winning a final since 2004 is very important and far from meaning nothing.
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one for the forest for the trees nerds.
but i remember a stat that if a team won a certain amount of close games <10 points/a goal, they would go on to win a final, and in the following years make the grand final.
probably misremembering, but i choose to hold onto this delusion.
Credit where it is due.
I have been one of the ones strongly against Woosha as coach, not initially but since last year. But I am starting to see the way he goes about things. He is a long term thinker with a very steady head on his shoulders. He is also a more of a manager of players and coaches then true coach himself. He takes care of the teams long term vision by managing the coaches and players. He is the steady headed leader.
He leaves game day motivation, and coaching to others. He identifies what is needed and challenges the coaches and players to up with the solutions. When you listen carefully to his pressers he admits both these things. Ill be the first to admit I thought it was a bit of a cop out on his behalf, but now I am starting to see how he goes about it.
The start of the year was way bellow par for the second year in a row the players where not physically and mentally prepared for R1. Also The addition of Rutten meant we changed our defensive game plan quiet a bit. The players have taken a long term to come to terms with this but are now starting to see results. Even when not playing our best footy we are able to stay within striking distance throughout most games.
I think our fwd line is diabolical so I am glad something is going to change in this department at years end. Most of our poor kicking into the 50 is due to there be no movement in the fwd line, or there been no one there to kick to at all. Its much easier to make a kick when a clear defined option presents itself then having to second guess all the time.
At the end of the day Woosha is only ever going to be as good as the coaching staff and players under him. He is a visionary steady headed long term thinker who challenges those around him to stick to that vision and get best out of themselves.
He is not a game day tactition, nor a game day motivator of players, in the traditional sense.
I don’t mind keeping him on if we can get the right support around him.
The media driven BS of having to make finials to see a year as a success is also a load a crap to me.
Let me put it this way. Would you rather we play good enough footy short term to scrape into finals and possibly win one.
Or now especially with all these injuries look to the future, play some younger players, and a build towards playing a style of footy that will stack up long term, and have us playing deep into September.
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This was 10/10
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Spot on.
I don’t think you get what Cenitpede is saying. What if the short term gain of scraping in the eight and maybe winning one final is detrimental to the long term goal of winning GF. Why would you sacrifice everything just to reach that short term goal.
Meaning we may have to to lose a few to learn a new style of play, blood a few more players for the long term goal. Learn to play a style of game that stacks up deep into September.
Prime example of this is North and Carlton. A short term coach comes in and changes things that win them some games of footy in the short term. Watching Norths simple game plan yesterday its clear to me they are a team who is not going deep into the finals. That style of play is only going to get them so far.
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How is winning a final against a team better than more than half of the competition a bad thing?
Why do you have to “lose a few” to “learn a new style of play” when winning a final shows your style is at the very least a competitive style for finals footy.
Why are you using two non finals teams as an example? Teams you play in the finals in general are decent sides that throughout the year have shown themselves better than most.
You are also disregarding the stigma. What do you think will be one of the biggest talking point the media and opposition will be talking about in the lead up to our first final?
In general winning is a good thing whether it’s a final or not.
we need to go back to back!!!
100% not true
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Firstly I didn’t think winning a final was media driven. For a club that hasn’t won anything of note for 19 years we shouldn’t need to the media to drive anything.
To your second point I’d rather we started the season ready to play, and don’t have to scrape into the finals.
But we haven’t managed to do that over the past two years when we have started the season seeming completely unprepared.
So I can’t say I am exactly on the same page as you.
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I’ve always backed him in and will continue to do so
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“How is winning a final against a team better than more than half of the competition a bad thing?”
Would love to win a final this year would be a great thing, but what I wont do is define the season by it. A lot of other factors need to come into a play as explained above.
“Why do you have to “lose a few” to “learn a new style of play” when winning a final shows your style is at the very least a competitive style for finals footy.”
Do you want to have a just competitive side in the finals? Or a side that wins flags? Yes, been in finials and winning them is of course a step that usually needs to be taken before wining the ultimate. Example say if we didnt get Rutton as coach and continued to play the same style of footy as last year would it have one us a flag this year? Would you agree we went backwards at the start of the year to learn a new defensive structure. But are now seeing the benefits?
“Why are you using two non finals teams as an example? Teams you play in the finals in general are decent sides that throughout the year have shown themselves better than most.”
Only using these to teams as they just had there long term coaches sacked. What often happens in this case is a new interim coach come in, they make some immediate short term changes and win some games of footy. But it usually doesn’t happen long term.
You are also disregarding the stigma. What do you think will be one of the biggest talking point the media and opposition will be talking about in the lead up to our first final?
I totally disregard and have no care for what the stigma is or what media/opp clowns say.
“In general winning is a good thing whether it’s a final or not.”
But I am not talking in general am I? I am talking long term. Perhaps it is in the short term it is, Perhaps in the long term it isn’t.
But I am not going to define a season on it. There are far more things to consider.
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And?
Our list profile makes it virtually impossible to pick an old side even if the coaches wanted to
Which they’ve shown zero intention of doing (since 2017.)
So what windmill are you tilting at?
The past is the past, the saga stuffed us and I have no doubt we would have won finals without it.
I am all for winning finals “now” but trying to be steady headed and would rather be winning GF’s “if” and thats a big “if” short term pain means long term gain. I dont know for sure that it is, but Woosh does.
I 100% agree we should have started the season ready to play, and I am still filthy about it. Its a big cross for the 2nd year in a row. The effort was really terrible. But I am also happy that we have improved our defensive structures.
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Lol at this thread. Another hard earned win with even more key players going down and people are still complaining.
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Good point. What’s the point of employing that person if you can’t change anything?
Of course some things can be changed in the immediate and short term.
The original post i made was that i completely disagree that anything other than winning the premiership means nothing.
Who is asking you to define the season by it? Once again winning a final does a lot for us short term and long term.
Why does winning our first final then being beaten by most likely a top4 team, prolly even interstate, mean that we can’t improve upon it the next year?
I said at the time that we looked physically under prepared for the season compared to everyone else, except Melbourne, by 4 weeks and stand by it. Not saying there wasn’t issues with the gameplan but it wasn’t the main reason imo.
But you aren’t playing those teams in the finals. You are generally playing good teams that have proven themselves better than most of the league. It’s a bizarre example.
A lot of footy is played in the head, both on and off the field. The media bringing it up, puts it back into the players heads. The opposition running around the ground reminding the players of it on the day over and over is a mental stigma that needs to be overcome.
Overcoming mental or physical challenges give you confidence. Overcome one barrier and gain the confidence to overcome the next one. Remove the doubts that linger in your mind and hold you back.
You seem to think that you can win but not realize you still need to get better.
In general losing is not a good thing.