Anything on how consumer goods prices have fallen dramatically?
Twenty-five years ago the cheapest new car you could get was around 20k with new employees starting at around 16k pa.
Now you can get a similar new car for 12k on a starting wage of...what? 25k?
Don't even get me started on clothes, computers, stereos (ha!) and televisions.
If housing takes up more income than ever before, maybe it's because people in this country have far, far, far more disposable income than ever before.
I'm not sure about the whole "Australian Dream" stuff being bandied about.
Australian's just seem to take it for granted that you should be able to leave school, get a job, marry your sweetheart and buy a home together by the time your 21yo.
There are plenty of country towns or outer suburbs of major cities where prices are very reasonable. The dream is still alive if you are willing to save your pennies, make sacrifices and willing to be practical. First home buyers these days seem to expect their first home should be a house in a trendy suburb with a garage and an al fresco entertainment area and all the trimmings.
My wife and I saved for about 4 years while we lived in a little shoebox in St kilda, and bought a small unit together in Cheltenham, which we've just sold (after 6 years) to buy a nice old home in a cheaper part of Cheltenham, which needs a heap of work done to it!
So all in all it's taken us 10 years since we got our finger out and started saving properly, and we have to continue those saving habits if we want to stay on top of the huge mortgage we have (which is our choice, we could have moved further out).
I guess my point is it's not some magical entitlement, and it doesn't come easy or quickly, but it's frustrating to hear people blame the government (or the chinese or whatever) for taking their dream away, when they drive a brand new car, just came back from their mates bucks party in Vegas and rent a penthouse apartment in Toorak.
Problem is there's no ■■■■■■ JOBS in country towns, so even though you can buy a house there quite easiily, you can't earn the money to afford the repayments, and that's entirely without taking all the lifestyle, proximity to family/friends/etc issues into account.
Outer suburbs are similar, though not as extreme. I bought in the outer suburbs last year, but even though I'm quite close to a railway station it's still over an hour each way to work. I can deal with that fine now (I knew what I was getting into) but I'm single and childless - if kids come along ... well, it'll probably get much harder. And in my line of work, there's basically no real alternative to working in the CBD/St Kilda Rd area. It works for me, but I can see why some people wouldn't find the sacrifices justified.
I guess it depends on the country town and what industries are supporting it. I grew up in the Hunter Valley which was all about coal mining and is now more about wineries and gastro-tourism. Most of my mates back home are chef's and they all seemed to be able to make a living and buy a house, took them a while to get organised but I'm jealous that they could buy what they did for around 250k.
You make a good point about being within a certain vicinity for your type of work. A lot of people (I hear) complaining that they can't afford to buy in Elwood, Richmond, Northcote etc have pretty generic type roles. If you are a bar manager or a waiter or a hairdresser or a nurse or a teacher, then you don't have to live in the city. If you want to live in the city because you like the buzz and it's cool, then don't be surprised if there's competition for nice places.
The CPI in the last 10 years has risen from 78.6 to 104.8 according to the ATO. That is based on a basket of consumer and service goods which I'm pretty sure includes housing and cars.
Well apparently the whinging disease has spread to both Canada and Hong Kong (that hotbed of entitlementism) where governments have taken direct visa and tax action to curb the impact of O/S investment on local housing affordability. Anyway rather than engage in anecdotes and hyperbole at 20 yards I offer this data from The Australians for Affordable Housing (no doubt a pack of whingers too)
"The majority of Australians aspire to own their own home – but it‘s getting harder
- In the last ten years house prices increased by 147 per cent, while incomes in comparison grew by 57 per cent.
- The rate of home purchase among 25 to 44 year olds has declined 15 per cent in the last 20 years.
- In 1991 the median house price was five times the average income. In 2011 it is seven times the average income.
- The average first home loan has gone from three times the average annual income in 1996 to six times the average annual income in 2010.
- One in four Australians aged between 24 and 35 now live with their parents. This has been increasing over the last 20 years.
- Every year the Federal Government gives out $8 billion in tax breaks to property investors but we still have high rents and low vacancy rates." housingstressed.org.au
No wonder you old "larrikins" never whinged.
Note: Most of this data would not include the full negative impact of the accelerated rate of O/S housing purchases of recent times.
I never said it wasn't getting harder, and my anecdote only stretched back to December last year when the house settled.
Anyway I suppose if every entitled whinger moved out of their parents house to enter the property market the prices would go up even more.
I'm just an unAustralian whinger but I see the housing affordability crisis as one of the crucial issues going into the future, an issue that the 2 major parties have done nothing about. I've said enough. I cede my final word to another unAustralian Whinger.
The CPI in the last 10 years has risen from 78.6 to 104.8 according to the ATO. That is based on a basket of consumer and service goods which I'm pretty sure includes housing and cars.
And the increase from '85 to '94 was far sharper than that.
Aren't you lucky?
I love the concept of housing shortages: have the number of homeless gone through the roof? No. It‘s still, roughly, one family per dwelling. There‘s just more middle men getting tax breaks.
Well apparently the whinging disease has spread to both Canada and Hong Kong (that hotbed of entitlementism) where governments have taken direct visa and tax action to curb the impact of O/S investment on local housing affordability. Anyway rather than engage in anecdotes and hyperbole at 20 yards I offer this data from The Australians for Affordable Housing (no doubt a pack of whingers too)
"The majority of Australians aspire to own their own home – but it‘s getting harder
- In the last ten years house prices increased by 147 per cent, while incomes in comparison grew by 57 per cent.
- The rate of home purchase among 25 to 44 year olds has declined 15 per cent in the last 20 years.
- In 1991 the median house price was five times the average income. In 2011 it is seven times the average income.
- The average first home loan has gone from three times the average annual income in 1996 to six times the average annual income in 2010.
- One in four Australians aged between 24 and 35 now live with their parents. This has been increasing over the last 20 years.
- Every year the Federal Government gives out $8 billion in tax breaks to property investors but we still have high rents and low vacancy rates." housingstressed.org.au
No wonder you old "larrikins" never whinged.
Note: Most of this data would not include the full negative impact of the accelerated rate of O/S housing purchases of recent times.
I think you will find many many reasons for all of this.
And you have just taken a snap shot from the last 15 years.
Look back further historically and tell us what you see.
What was the wage/house price ratio in the 60s and 70s?
When you got a job from the age of 16 and spent the next 40 years paying it off.
No whinging. No bludging off parents. No choices.
We weren't thinking. I'll have this job for 2 years then travel, then work here or there. Then may be at 34 I'll have a kid.
No you knuckled down from the age of 18.
Most people bought on the fringe and were happy with there lot.
We get it way to easy. Entitlement. We think we can have it all.
Waste our 20s and then think, hey hold on I want a house! I want a house!
There are affordable places to live. We just think we are too good for them.
I'll add one thing.
I entered the housing market 10 years ago.
I was scared. It was very expensive for my income and I thought I paid to much.
I had a young family with very little wiggle room financially.
Interest rates were 3 times what they are now.
But it was what I really wanted.
I knuckled down, worked hard and made sacrifices.
I'm a 3rd of the way through my mortgage and the house has doubled in price giving my family security into the future.
My point is If you really want a house it can be done.
People expect everything without working for it or making sacrifices.
Pretty much most of the developments in the CBD in Melbourne and Sydney are owned by Chinese who pay overs for them.
For every chinese buyer there is a willing Australian seller.
True. There’d be some people out there making a mint.
My parents were migrants whose first house was bought in the late 60s on a Housing Commission subsidised estate where fixed repayments made housing affordable for families that had no hope of home ownership otherwise. I don't think any such schemes exist anymore.
I took out a loan for my first house in the mid 80s, a land and house package on the Peninsula for around 65k, the block was 9k and I received a first home buyers grant, although I can't remember how much. It took maybe 3 years to get the deposit together.
Both my parents and I were able to meet repayments on ONE WAGE.
We sold up and moved to hopefully my final house around 16 years ago. It cost 155k . We nearly bought a different house in the same street for145k. It recently had an extention put on and it's currently on the market for 860k.
I do not believe these stories are uncommon and help to account for Australia's traditionally high levels of home ownership.
The fact is that my kids will find it much harder to buy a home than either their parents or grand parents and the idea of meeting payments on one wage for around a decade is a pipe dream.
P.S Personally I see no security in rising prices, housing is not a flexible consumer item and it would cost more than my house is worth to buy anything equivalent when taking the cost of moving into account. For me rising prices just make it harder for young people to afford housing and I think we'd be better off in the long run if prices tanked. That way we might recall that housing, at its essence, is a need, not an investment opportunity.
I see your points.
You mention a couple of things.
Housing commission. Who would live in housing commission now? No one.
We think we are too good for that. Instead we complaign about not being able to buy our 3 bedder in Ivanhoe.
Second. You bought a house on the Peninsula in the 80s for a song. Back then the Peninsula would have felt at the end of the earth.
But now it is very much sought after.
Now people just want to buy in the hot spots.
You also saved for 3 years. People simply don't. The live then arrive at 30 and go I want a house. NOW!!
My point being. Your parents worked hard. You worked hard and probably didn't buy your 1st home in your first choice of suburb (demonstrated) by the fact you moved).
Instead of working hard people just put up there hand and whinge.
Both my parents and I were able to meet repayments on ONE WAGE.
We sold up and moved to hopefully my final house around 16 years ago. It cost 155k . We nearly bought a different house in the same street for145k. It recently had an extention put on and it's currently on the market for 860k.
...
The fact is that my kids will find it much harder to buy a home than either their parents or grand parents and the idea of meeting payments on one wage for around a decade is a pipe dream.
Well, yes.
The market back then would've reflected (maybe a bit behind) the majority of people - he worked, she stayed at home.
It still reflects the majority of people - both work.
So you can add "them womyns" to the list of people to blame.
How many are we up to now?
Immigrants, the gubbmint, the last gubbmint & the one before that, young people, old people, womyn?
As for
Both my parents and I were able to meet repayments on ONE WAGE.
We sold up and moved to hopefully my final house around 16 years ago. It cost 155k . We nearly bought a different house in the same street for145k. It recently had an extention put on and it's currently on the market for 860k.
...
The fact is that my kids will find it much harder to buy a home than either their parents or grand parents and the idea of meeting payments on one wage for around a decade is a pipe dream.
Well, yes.
The market back then would've reflected (maybe a bit behind) the majority of people - he worked, she stayed at home.
It still reflects the majority of people - both work.
So you can add "them womyns" to the list of people to blame.
How many are we up to now?
Immigrants, the gubbmint, the last gubbmint & the one before that, young people, old people, womyn?
You can still get by on one wage, but you'd need to live like the majority of home owners did back in then.
No private health care, no bought lunches, no pet insurance, rarely see a dentist, no mobile phone, no internet, careful not to waste electricity, buy staple ingredients in bulk, make meals from scratch, chooks in the backyard for eggs, vegie garden for produce, no overseas trips (Frankston if you're lucky), no resturants/cafes, haircuts from mum, clothes and toys handed down from child to child, no university (unless you were rich), 1 car per family, walking for an hour wasn't considered exercise, it was transport... all your clothes could fit in a suitcase etc...
As for
Both my parents and I were able to meet repayments on ONE WAGE.
We sold up and moved to hopefully my final house around 16 years ago. It cost 155k . We nearly bought a different house in the same street for145k. It recently had an extention put on and it's currently on the market for 860k.
...
The fact is that my kids will find it much harder to buy a home than either their parents or grand parents and the idea of meeting payments on one wage for around a decade is a pipe dream.
Well, yes.
The market back then would've reflected (maybe a bit behind) the majority of people - he worked, she stayed at home.
It still reflects the majority of people - both work.
So you can add "them womyns" to the list of people to blame.
How many are we up to now?
Immigrants, the gubbmint, the last gubbmint & the one before that, young people, old people, womyn?
You can still get by on one wage, but you'd need to live like the majority of home owners did back in then.
No private health care, no bought lunches, no pet insurance, rarely see a dentist, no mobile phone, no internet, careful not to waste electricity, buy staple ingredients in bulk, make meals from scratch, chooks in the backyard for eggs, vegie garden for produce, no overseas trips (Frankston if you're lucky), no resturants/cafes, haircuts from mum, clothes and toys handed down from child to child, no university (unless you were rich), 1 car per family, walking for an hour wasn't considered exercise, it was transport... all your clothes could fit in a suitcase etc...
You have a strange perception of how things were.
And an odd idea of what was. Either that or everyone you associate with "back then", was quite poor. And, there was no internet, or mobile phones, or pet insurance, nor trendy cafes with $85 lattes on every corner. As for the rest, at least in my childhood/teens, it certainly wasn't like that. People made meals from scratch, yes; as they still do. Mum didn't cut your hair. You saw dentists and doctors when you needed to, just like today. You got the marks, you got the uni course, just like today. No more vege gardens than today. Etc etc.
People of my parents generation payed off their housing loans at a leisurely rate that allowed them to have money for other things because most of the loans were low interest war service loans.
As for
Both my parents and I were able to meet repayments on ONE WAGE.
We sold up and moved to hopefully my final house around 16 years ago. It cost 155k . We nearly bought a different house in the same street for145k. It recently had an extention put on and it's currently on the market for 860k.
...
The fact is that my kids will find it much harder to buy a home than either their parents or grand parents and the idea of meeting payments on one wage for around a decade is a pipe dream.
Well, yes.
The market back then would've reflected (maybe a bit behind) the majority of people - he worked, she stayed at home.
It still reflects the majority of people - both work.
So you can add "them womyns" to the list of people to blame.
How many are we up to now?
Immigrants, the gubbmint, the last gubbmint & the one before that, young people, old people, womyn?
You can still get by on one wage, but you'd need to live like the majority of home owners did back in then.
No private health care, no bought lunches, no pet insurance, rarely see a dentist, no mobile phone, no internet, careful not to waste electricity, buy staple ingredients in bulk, make meals from scratch, chooks in the backyard for eggs, vegie garden for produce, no overseas trips (Frankston if you're lucky), no resturants/cafes, haircuts from mum, clothes and toys handed down from child to child, no university (unless you were rich), 1 car per family, walking for an hour wasn't considered exercise, it was transport... all your clothes could fit in a suitcase etc...
You have a strange perception of how things were.
And an odd idea of what was. Either that or everyone you associate with "back then", was quite poor. And, there was no internet, or mobile phones, or pet insurance, nor trendy cafes with $85 lattes on every corner. As for the rest, at least in my childhood/teens, it certainly wasn't like that. People made meals from scratch, yes; as they still do. Mum didn't cut your hair. You saw dentists and doctors when you needed to, just like today. You got the marks, you got the uni course, just like today. No more vege gardens than today. Etc etc.
People of my parents generation payed off their housing loans at a leisurely rate that allowed them to have money for other things because most of the loans were low interest war service loans.
Didn't know they did low interest loans after the Boer War!
No uni? "Back in the day" uni was free! Now it costs and is expected if you ever want a job that will allow you to buy a house.You have a strange perception of how things were.
As forYou can still get by on one wage, but you'd need to live like the majority of home owners did back in then.
Well, yes.
Both my parents and I were able to meet repayments on ONE WAGE.
We sold up and moved to hopefully my final house around 16 years ago. It cost 155k . We nearly bought a different house in the same street for145k. It recently had an extention put on and it's currently on the market for 860k.
...
The fact is that my kids will find it much harder to buy a home than either their parents or grand parents and the idea of meeting payments on one wage for around a decade is a pipe dream.
The market back then would've reflected (maybe a bit behind) the majority of people - he worked, she stayed at home.
It still reflects the majority of people - both work.
So you can add "them womyns" to the list of people to blame.
How many are we up to now?
Immigrants, the gubbmint, the last gubbmint & the one before that, young people, old people, womyn?
No private health care, no bought lunches, no pet insurance, rarely see a dentist, no mobile phone, no internet, careful not to waste electricity, buy staple ingredients in bulk, make meals from scratch, chooks in the backyard for eggs, vegie garden for produce, no overseas trips (Frankston if you're lucky), no resturants/cafes, haircuts from mum, clothes and toys handed down from child to child, no university (unless you were rich), 1 car per family, walking for an hour wasn't considered exercise, it was transport... all your clothes could fit in a suitcase etc...
And an odd idea of what was. Either that or everyone you associate with "back then", was quite poor. And, there was no internet, or mobile phones, or pet insurance, nor trendy cafes with $85 lattes on every corner. As for the rest, at least in my childhood/teens, it certainly wasn't like that. People made meals from scratch, yes; as they still do. Mum didn't cut your hair. You saw dentists and doctors when you needed to, just like today. You got the marks, you got the uni course, just like today. No more vege gardens than today. Etc etc.
People of my parents generation payed off their housing loans at a leisurely rate that allowed them to have money for other things because most of the loans were low interest war service loans.
Well there you go, I stand corrected.