FF: ALEXIS GIROUD CARTHORLA
What possible reason could there be that no one is trying to lead once we've got possession, let alone leading to a decent spot?Because everyone is running away from the footy as we move it out of the defensive 50.Yep. Thatās what Iāve seen happening. Half the time they are 50m away and running away meaning they donāt even become an option.
I canāt recall how many times in the past two years that looked up, seen some good space to lead into only to see out players running the opposite direction.
Where and when to start leading needs to be improved.
Funnily enoughā¦
The only player Iāve seen lead into space towards the ball carrier was Langford against North and Brown a few other times. Those two seem to lead towards the ball carrier more often than not.
More often than not, Joe D either stands still or runs perpendicular to the ball carrier (usually towards the spare defender).Itās both players and coaches at fault. Our forward line has been battling at best and that wonāt change anytime soon.
We have to put together six forwards who work well together.
We have Brown, Joe D, Langford and Orazio at early stages of developing how to play their role. Brown is likely to be replaced with Hooker next year.
We need to find another two or three more that arenāt midfielders resting in the forward line not offering goal kicking potential.If brown is replaced by Hooker Iāll go spare. Him and Langford are the only two that look anything like they know how to act as forwards. Replace someone else with Hooker.
Iām expecting Hurly and Hartley to be our tall backmen. A third (Hooker) may be too tall.
Iām not sure if Brown can play the third tall as a forward. Itās worth a shot but I would like a back up plan with smaller forwards just in case it doesnāt work.
Unless your suggesting to play Joe Dan in the reserves behind Brown.
What possible reason could there be that no one is trying to lead once we've got possession, let alone leading to a decent spot?Because everyone is running away from the footy as we move it out of the defensive 50.Yep. Thatās what Iāve seen happening. Half the time they are 50m away and running away meaning they donāt even become an option.
I canāt recall how many times in the past two years that looked up, seen some good space to lead into only to see out players running the opposite direction.
Where and when to start leading needs to be improved.
Funnily enoughā¦
The only player Iāve seen lead into space towards the ball carrier was Langford against North and Brown a few other times. Those two seem to lead towards the ball carrier more often than not.
More often than not, Joe D either stands still or runs perpendicular to the ball carrier (usually towards the spare defender).Itās both players and coaches at fault. Our forward line has been battling at best and that wonāt change anytime soon.
We have to put together six forwards who work well together.
We have Brown, Joe D, Langford and Orazio at early stages of developing how to play their role. Brown is likely to be replaced with Hooker next year.
We need to find another two or three more that arenāt midfielders resting in the forward line not offering goal kicking potential.If brown is replaced by Hooker Iāll go spare. Him and Langford are the only two that look anything like they know how to act as forwards. Replace someone else with Hooker.
Iām expecting Hurly and Hartley to be our tall backmen. A third (Hooker) may be too tall.
Iām not sure if Brown can play the third tall as a forward. Itās worth a shot but I would like a back up plan with smaller forwards just in case it doesnāt work.Unless your suggesting to play Joe Dan in the reserves behind Brown.
Iām not suggesting anything for Joe Dan, I have high hopes he will improve, I am trying to look at who seems to be our best forward and at the moment that is Brown.
And he seems to be improving. So to suggest we send him back to the reserves is to cut off our nose to spite our face IMHO.
Assuming we land no big fish fwd.
Hooker Francis
Daniher
Leuey
Hurley
Hartley Brown
With Brown & Francis playing either 3rd tall or def. Preferably Francis fwd for mine as better mark and more competitve at ground level. Brown will be playing on predominantly resting rucks in opposition fwd lines.
If we gained Patton or Jenkins, Hooker would go back Iām guessing and either Hartley or Brown out.
I really do love what Cale brings up forward though, never out marked, plays with so much energy. Be interesting to see how heād go with a summer of goal kicking practice and a dominant midfield in 2017.
If we could some how snare Patton for pick 19, then decided to pick Ben Ainsworth with pick 1. It would add a whole new dimension to our forwardline. It means Daniher can pay the traditional CHF position. You could then rotate Brown, Langford & Bellchambers as your third tall options.
I can only get so erect
If we could some how snare Patton for pick 19, then decided to pick Ben Ainsworth with pick 1. It would add a whole new dimension to our forwardline. It means Daniher can pay the traditional CHF position. You could then rotate Brown, Langford & Bellchambers as your third tall options.I can only get so erect
If we pick those players up, and our current list keeps improving at the rate they have been, Daniher would be lucky to get a game. You can only go so far on potential.
First name Scott Lucasā, surname Leg.
What possible reason could there be that no one is trying to lead once we've got possession, let alone leading to a decent spot?Because everyone is running away from the footy as we move it out of the defensive 50.Yep. Thatās what Iāve seen happening. Half the time they are 50m away and running away meaning they donāt even become an option.
I canāt recall how many times in the past two years that looked up, seen some good space to lead into only to see out players running the opposite direction.
Where and when to start leading needs to be improved.
Funnily enoughā¦
The only player Iāve seen lead into space towards the ball carrier was Langford against North and Brown a few other times. Those two seem to lead towards the ball carrier more often than not.
More often than not, Joe D either stands still or runs perpendicular to the ball carrier (usually towards the spare defender).Itās both players and coaches at fault. Our forward line has been battling at best and that wonāt change anytime soon.
We have to put together six forwards who work well together.
We have Brown, Joe D, Langford and Orazio at early stages of developing how to play their role. Brown is likely to be replaced with Hooker next year.
We need to find another two or three more that arenāt midfielders resting in the forward line not offering goal kicking potential.
reckon itās 70/30 coaches fault.
all the things you and other say are spot on, but if the coach allows that to happen, despite it not working, well ultimately itās there problem to fix.
our forwardline as a whole moves up the ground way too much, but it continues to happen, so itās not just oh poor play by daniher or player x, itās an actual design by the coaching panel, either by direction or default.
Not to pick on daniher cos they all do it down there, i was just watching the forwardline at one point, and he and 2 others just casually walked from about 40 meters out to about 70.
the ball was moved out defence and the first position they ran to was the 40 meter mark they were originally standing it.
our forwardline is just the pinnacle of inefficiency. Itās easy to blame skippy, and Egan prior to him taking over. But i said the same thing under hird.
Itās worsfolds team, they ultimately play as a reflection of how HE should be wanting them and making them play.
If they arenāt doing what he wants, there are no visible repercussions at present for not doing so, there are no changes in holding players deeper in the fwd 50, so ultimately itās a coaching problem first and foremost.
then it becomes about cattle.
I am starting to believe its not so much a ball movement/forward structure problem but just a personnel problem.
The best teams have 4-5 gun dangerous permanent or at least primary forwards. Last year we mainly had resting vanilla mids down there and this year we have kids.
These days due to flooding you either score from turn overs or it takes some kind x-factor. (Huge Leap, Bullet Kick, Line Breaking, Evasiveness)
Hawthorn: Poppy, Cyril, Bruest, Gunston, Roughead,
Adelaide: Walker, Betts, Cameron, Jenkins, Lynch,
Sydney: Buddy, Tippett, Heeney, McGlynn, Parker,
These players donāt need a lot of touches but IMO can easily have more impact on a game than a 30 touch half back or midfielder. See Redman, despite not being ready for AFL yet, when he gets the ball close to goals good things happen.
When we were a good team we were similar to the forward lines above with players like Lloyd, Lucas, Caracella, Mercuri, Hird, Long, Rioli. I donāt think our āā ā ā ā forward structureā could stop them from scoring 100 points a game.
I think the fixes to our forward line have already been put in place but its just a waiting game now, next year i believe we will be a lot more dangerous with the additions and improvement of.
Essendon: Daniher, Hooker, Redman, Langford, Ainsworth, Laverde*, Colyer*, Fantasia*, Eades*, McKenna*
I donāt think midfielders make forwards look good. The forwards make the mids look good at the good clubs.
Discuss.
This morning was at Abu Simbal in upper Egypt about 50km from the Sudan border. Spotted a guy wearing an Essendon Bombers black and red polo shirt.
Amazing how far some will travel to avoid watching Essendonās lame excuse for a forward line.
This morning was at Abu Simbal in upper Egypt about 50km from the Sudan border. Spotted a guy wearing an Essendon Bombers black and red polo shirt. Amazing how far some will travel to avoid watching Essendon's lame excuse for a forward line.
its a mirror mate, africa has those you know.
HF: Langford, Daniher, Edwards
FF: Fantasia, Patton, Ainsworth
I actually canāt do the physical math.
We are doing a forward press
Yet last game vs st kilda we gave up a record amount of uncontested kicks into the f50 and marks inside their f50.
But when we rebound, we are missing our hfās and at least two midfielders
Is there a vortex?
How are we doing this press that means no forwardline but then thereās no players filling gaps?
WHERE ARE THE PLAYERS GOING?
Daniher is our most experienced forward. That canāt be good. Did Kelly play half forward for the Cats? Maybe we can switch hm forward?
We should play Pagans paddock
Such a strange notion, a paddock full of Denis Pagansā¦
I am starting to believe its not so much a ball movement/forward structure problem but just a personnel problem. The best teams have 4-5 gun dangerous permanent or at least primary forwards. Last year we mainly had resting vanilla mids down there and this year we have kids.These days due to flooding you either score from turn overs or it takes some kind x-factor. (Huge Leap, Bullet Kick, Line Breaking, Evasiveness)
Hawthorn: Poppy, Cyril, Bruest, Gunston, Roughead,
Adelaide: Walker, Betts, Cameron, Jenkins, Lynch,
Sydney: Buddy, Tippett, Heeney, McGlynn, Parker,These players donāt need a lot of touches but IMO can easily have more impact on a game than a 30 touch half back or midfielder. See Redman, despite not being ready for AFL yet, when he gets the ball close to goals good things happen.
When we were a good team we were similar to the forward lines above with players like Lloyd, Lucas, Caracella, Mercuri, Hird, Long, Rioli. I donāt think our āā ā ā ā forward structureā could stop them from scoring 100 points a game.
I think the fixes to our forward line have already been put in place but its just a waiting game now, next year i believe we will be a lot more dangerous with the additions and improvement of.
Essendon: Daniher, Hooker, Redman, Langford, Ainsworth, Laverde*, Colyer*, Fantasia*, Eades*, McKenna*
I donāt think midfielders make forwards look good. The forwards make the mids look good at the good clubs.
Discuss.
I like where you are coming from that the forwards can make the mids look good.
I think part of the problem over the years in general is the "football industryās " obsession with numbers. He got 35 possessions, he had 33 possessions as though the number of possession is the be all and end all and the sole determinant of great play.
They then realised it cant just be possession so they have now come up with a way to āscoreā everything so they can come up with a number.
While this can work well in staff selections it doesnāt cut it when comparing a midfielder to a full forward or half forward flanker.
Is a goal worth as much as 6, 7 or 8 possessions? Or only 2? What about two tackles? Should a tackle be awarded more than a possession given that the player didnāt get the ball in the first place?
Then there is the argument about who is best on ground.
The person with 35 possessions or the full forward that kicked 8 goals?
Or what about the person that had a blinder in the final quarter and practically won the game off his own boot. But was hardly sighted in the first three quarters.
You will have some people say that it has to be someone who played all four quarters, and other say it should be the person that was the difference between the two teams whether they won or not.
And then of course there are people saying ābut he got 35 possessionsā and you think to yourself yes but 15 of them were when so and so kicked it backwards to him.
There is also the problem that most people (I think, not sure of numbers) see the game on television. Which means you cant see whats going on off the ball. I am one of them as I now live in Queensland. See about three live games a year.
So I donāt get to see how well the full forward is working off the ball. I have to go on what I can see on television, and what friends who go to the game tell me. So when I see Jo Dan standing in a pocket with three defenders, I can only assume he hasnāt run hard enough off the ball, to get rid of the defenders.
But I also see up close people burrowing in under packs to get the ball. Which is why in the last few weeks I have thought Cooney was great. Every time I I looked he was running past the screen barrelling into people and getting the ball. Goddard on the other hand I only seemed to notice (recently) when he is hand balling to where a player was, as opposed to where he was going. And I think what is he doing?
Last week they both had 30+ possessions but the figure is meaningless. Only relevant to umpires awarding Brownlow votes.
So what really is the role of a forward and more importantly what is the determinant for them āplaying well.ā Are we happy with 6 possessions and six goals? Or does it have to be 10 to be best on ground? How about 4 goals and three goal assists? And do we care about marks? Are they more important that a handball receive? Does anyone care so long as they kick a goal?.
Do we get any extra points for team work? And I am not talking about leadership, I am talking about not running into each otherās space, not crashing the same packs.
From what I can see on television, our forward line doesnāt work hard enough, they get in each others way, they crash packs, and they havenāt been particularly accurate in front of goal.
Are they being coached well? I wouldnāt know, but probably not given that I think they look better without Daniher. Which would indicate to me that either he is not doing what he is supposed to or the others are not doing what they are supposed to. Or else we have are trying to build a forward line around one forward and we are not taking the time with the others.
You are right, those players you mentioned above would score 100 points any day, because they could kick goals, they stayed out of each others way, they knew individually and collectively what they were capable of. They didnāt have to tackle (although they could and did) because they got the ball first.
Give JD a break, he needs more support and that has a lot to do with good midfield delivery, being able to settle into a roving CHF role, having a threatening full forward presence like Hooker or Patton and some small forwards who can cause chaos (hopefully that can be Eades, McKenna, a resting Fantasia, Zaharakis, Walla, Colyer and maybe Long soonish) and a strong leading 3rd tall who may be Langford, Brown, Edwards or Laverde.
I canāt help thinking all the building blocks are virtually there and need time to mature and become cohesive. I would love it if they could snag Caracella from Geelong help with this process as forward coach and maybe as senior assistant with a view to succession planning.
I want to call for a head count, feels like we are playing with 16 men
If we could some how snare Patton for pick 19, then decided to pick Ben Ainsworth with pick 1. It would add a whole new dimension to our forwardline. It means Daniher can pay the traditional CHF position. You could then rotate Brown, Langford & Bellchambers as your third tall options.I can only get so erect
If we pick those players up, and our current list keeps improving at the rate they have been, Daniher would be lucky to get a game. You can only go so far on potential.
Logic flaw alert:
Daniher is on our current list 