Belief and experience. Hopefully then win another.
Reboot is right. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from watching Richmond quite a few times over the last 2 years is how well drilled they are and how in tune they are with each other. They are all fully clear on their plan, their roles within it, and 100% predictable to each other. The deft knock ons. The closing down of the right space. Moving the ball to the right spots and playing on blind knowing full well a team mate with be getting to that spot. The way they set up and defend the ground better than anyone else in the comp. They may be worked out now (I don’t necessarily think they are and Lynch helps them no end) but you ain’t winning without that cohesion and even up until late this year we haven’t developed that yet. Our forward line is still the issue IMO and with Daniher basically absent for the entire 2018 season that’s another year of lost development.
Yep, don’t want spoons, that’s for sure.
But being second or tenth is neither here nor there for me.
Does anyone care who finished in the top 8 outside the premier in say 2010?
Would still be good to get a read out on the lead up (finals played and won) for premiers in the last 10 or 20 years.
Let’s put it another way - if Essendon won the premiership next year, given it’s crap recent finals history, then that would be a very very very impressive effort.
I agree with the cohesion part.
But I fully believe that we turned that corner mid year and we can now challenge for the flag.
then wining a final 15 years ago will mean nothing.
Don’t even remember what town I was in in 2010.
Karratha? Bundaberg?
I think footy team can be a bit weird sometimes, like Doggies in 16 or Hawks in 08, Bombers in 93, some can just click for a period and their form can carry them through. Then there are others that get really good, but can never really get that dominant winning attitude (port 04-07, saints 09-10, swans and eagles in 05-06 could even fall into this category). But what everybody really wants is the Dynasty (Lions 01-04, Geel 07-11, Hawks 12-15). I would say bombers in 99-01 are like this but one flag is not a dynasty, it really was an underperformance in that respect.
I think what’s really evident of these sides is an extra large core group of players that are exceptional. That group has to grow beyond the natural drafting addition and attrition rate. Briefly to describe it: The lions did it through merging too club together and some draft picks, Cats through an exceptional period of drafting in 99 they got Corey, Chapman, Ling, Enright and 01 they picked up Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Ablett - That’s pretty phenomenal - 8 AA in two drafts. Hawks did it through a core exceptional draft group and then adding more through trading albeit when everybody else was handicapped with GC and GWS entering the system.
I each case of a dynasty there was a period just before they started their that was like a dam wall broke. Adding Selwood and Ottens coming good in 07 made the cats go from a good side to un beatable. Hawks got Gunstan and into the GF in 2012. I think with these Dynasty teams there become a overwhelming weight of numbers of quality players that other cannot compete with. Something GWS should have and something I think we might be close to.
Adding Shiel and you look at out midfield and have to wonder how the hell anybody is going to stop it. All of Merrett, Shiel and Hepp can be unstoppable on their day. I think people might be surprised next yeah at how dominant we will be at times.
You’re right that we turned a corner. We started playing far more consistent football and accounted for good and poor teams alike. But the best this year still broke us down, not because our players are/weren’t good enough but because we lacked the cohesion of system against the best. Hawthorn and Richmond in Rnd 21 the perfect examples. Even the return match against the Pies to an extent although injuries certainly hurt us that day.
Or Bargara.
One of those three.
I see no reason why we can’t win the flag next year. A lot would need to go right and we’re obviously not favourites, but you never know.
I reckon top 6 is the bare minimum
Yeah
The thing I take out of what we achieved in the second half of the year is belief.
Yes, we still got beaten by some good sides, but we also beat some really good sides and we were even doing that away from home.
I think we still have lots of improvement to come also.
This preseason is going to tell us a lot about where we are as a football club.
Presumably that applies to the players as well?
I don’t it’s realistic to think we’ll win a flag given we haven’t even won a final for 14 (?) years.
However, I wouldn’t be excluding the possibility either. If you look at the last few years it is possible to make significant jumps up the ladder. I have put the ladder position of each team after the final round in brackets. In essence, the last four years at least 25% of the teams in the eight have jumped on average about 7 places up the ladder. If we can achieve something similar we will make top four. We will need to cross our fingers and hope a lot of things go right.
2018 - West Coast (2) were 8th in 2017
Collingwood (3) were 13th
Melbourne (5) were 9th
2017 - Richmond (3) were 13th in 2016
Port (5) were 10th
2016 - Geelong (2) were 10th in 2015
GWS (4) were 11th
2015 - West Coast (2) were 9th in 2014
Bulldogs (7) were 14th
Richmond in 2017
Points to significant advantage in fixturing as much as anything.
One thing’s for sure, we won’t cop a harder fixture than we did this year.
[quote=“Nocturnal, post:3966, topic:12973, full:true”] I think with these Dynasty teams there become a overwhelming weight of numbers of quality players that other cannot compete with. Something GWS should have and something I think we might be close to.
Adding Shiel and you look at out midfield and have to wonder how the hell anybody is going to stop it. All of Merrett, Shiel and Hepp can be unstoppable on their day. I think people might be surprised next yeah at how dominant we will be at times.
[/quote]
The problem is that once you win a flag, every player is a 5 star, elite, gun premiership player, but until that happens, you’ve only got B&F winners and a couple of AA players.
In the case of the dogs, they all became elite, and then the following year they were no good.
Looking at our midfield, I’d rate Shiel, Smith & Zerret as elite. Not sure if Heppel is in the same category, probably. but he’s just not as flashy. Zaka is probably a step down again as is Myers and then McGrath Parish Langford could well be elite but aren’t just yet.
Of course if we win a flag they will all be superstars, but the average punter doesn’t really rate our mids outside of the top 4 I mentioned…yet.
I definitely get the feeling that something is brewing and if the last 3 I mentioned take another step this year then the dam will have to bust as you suggested - especially if they can make our FWD’a and Defenders look elite too.
ta - didn’t appreciate just how bad their drought of finals wins was. Last win 2001, no finals until 2013, lose 3 elimination finals in a row and then a flag in 2017.
@Killer_Mike - ok, that is very very very impressive effort 
But by your reckoning all that is all bullshit and doesn’t count for anything because we didn’t win the flag.
My understanding is that we can’t win the flag next year because we haven’t won a final in fifteen years.
I am far more optimistic.