Non-Essendon thread: LOL hawks are ■■■■■■ for a decade this is glorious
Essendon thread: hey, easy there, you can’t make any judgements on anyone after four weeks
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Sure you can make judgements, but my point is: why limit it to just the 10 returning Essendon players? Do the whole ■■■■■■ team and put some perspective to it. Or pick some other like for like players and run a comparison. This is just “Hey, Colyers been good, but Howlett hasn’t.” There’s no point to the article, it’s just filler.
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Fair enough. I mean, of course it’s filler, literally the entire football media is filler. If someone wrote a 20,000 word long form analysis of our list it’d still be filler because it wouldn’t achieve anything. To answer your question, I think it’s perfectly valid to compare the returning players to themselves, comparing players to their previous form is kind of standard. Why is “how is Hurley going compared to Ambrose?” a fundamentally more interesting or informative question than “how is Hurley going compared to his own form prior to suspension?”
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I’d suggest you’d be the only one with this opinion
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Hille’ said tapwork was average. Good player in spite of it.
Nah, just milking hits as usual.
It’s probably not TBH. I guess there is somewhat of an interest in seeing how the returning players cope after a year off - but it’s too early to call on the individual players form at round 4. This could just as easily be a slow start to the season more than the consequences of sitting out for a year.
Think about Swans and Hawks like Hanneberry, Franklin, Parker, Bruest, Puopolo, Burgoyne, Gibson, and then you have whoever it is that still plays for Norf Melbin - Ziebell, Thomas, and Cunnington - none of these blokes are playing anywhere near as well as they’re capable of - and none had to spend a few months last year topless in Europe.
I just think Rohan might have gone early on his article. We’ll know more by the bye rounds how they’re coping I reckon. I’d be stunned if Hurley, Hooker, Heppell, Howlett, Hocking and the surnames who don’t start with H haven’t hit somewhere near peak form by then. And if they haven’t - then do the “report card” and start opining on the ramifications of sitting out for a year.
Bottom line - Hawks are ■■■■■■. And it’s glorious.
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All fair points. Especially the last one.
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The stupidity is that literally everyone said that the returning players would take time to find their feet. Literally everyone said we wouldn’t see their best until the second half of the season.
Yet now it’s news.
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Who does the recruiting for the VFL team? Is it largely left to VFL staff or do Jackets and Co run the whole show?
Obviously we’ve had a few players come through the VFL system in recent years who’ve made it onto the list and listening to Dodoro on bomber radio he mentions Tippa and Ambrose and that having them join the VFL side was part of a long term senior recruitment plan.
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Dodoro’s interview is really talking about building the flag team around a core group all coming through together and it takes time, no quick fix.
And refers to Daniher, Zerrett, Parish, LAV, Langford and co.
That’s where we are at.
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Moved this here since it is really about the list build.
We only “traded out” because we were forced to, unless you’re referring to Giles…
Look, I had no problem trading out in 2015 or 2016. In fact, I advocated it both times. In 2015 I pointed out that compared to our peak in 2013 we had lost Ryder, Crameri, Winders, Fletch, Carlisle, Melksham and a bunch of our most important players had moved the wrong side of 30. Fremantle was desperate for a key forward, teams like Richmond/North might take an older player if we subsidised their salary to increase the trade value. In 2016 anyone who was a FA would have maximised value. Hooker leaving would have got us pick #2. Hurley would have got us top value.
And this would all have freed up cap so we could have taken a salary dump like Carlton did with GWS to get a good youngster cheap.
However, we didn’t. Why would anyone trade for a Stanton/Bags/Watson now? They’re too old. Belly and Myers have no exposed form, and have long term contracts clubs would need to pick up. Not likely. So when people say trade out older assets, really means you’re talking Hooker and Hurley. Who due to the year out are looking down on previous form, and have long term high cost contracts. Not very conducive to getting good market value.
As I said in the free agent thread. If we do a 180 and suddenly start selling players now at the low end of the cycle, the person(s) in charge of list strategy should be fired.
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Just to be clear, I’ve advocated a “wait and see” approach to this year to determine where our list is at. Part of this is because we don’t know how good the returning players, second year players, and younger players are. But it’s also that we’ve clearly gone down a strategy of trying to bounce back quickly and keep older players. That strategy needs to be given at least a while to determine if it was right.
On the face of it, you wouldn’t think we could have done a rebuild in 3 years with draft sanctions. But its looking like our drafting was particularly strong in 2013 to 2015. If further players from those drafts, the 2016 draft and our traded in players also develop (e.g. Redman, Laverde, Begley, Mutch, Stewart, Green), then actually we might be on the upwards path. That would be extraordinary, but there is some evidence.
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Can you read?
As I’ve said about 500 times in this thread
We know the 4 old guys are in their last few years - they’re a moot point.
This is about the middle tier: Hocking, Myers, Bellchambers, Howlett, Bird and co. All have years left.
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Well, none of those would have any trade value. Which is what I was replying to in the other thread. That we missed the boat. Myers and Belly would have had trade value in 2015, maybe 2016.
As to what to do with them, I’m advocating a wait and see position for now until we know where the list is at. If the strategists at the Solar Centre are right and we’re lifting out of our rebuild, then keeping a number of those players may make a lot of sense. If what we fear is correct and the team is nowhere near it, then a lot should go. My view is we don’t yet know where the list is at, whereas you have quite clearly (now) stated you think the list is miles off it.
You keep saying “wait and see” like trade week is actually happening this weekend.
We will see the whole season before any decisions have to be made
I’m just telling you what will happen: we’ll be mediocre with patches of good. And those mid tier guys won’t make one iota of difference one way or the other. Think of this as conditioning, we need to go through a little bit of pain here.
And surely you see “we would’ve gotten a better deal 2 years ago” is terrible logic to base a decision on. We’re making the decision in 2017, they’re in our 2018-2019 plans or they’re not.
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I don’t really follow your argument. You say you wanted to trade out value in 2015 and 2016 but imply we didn’t and now it’s too late.
Are you not aware we traded out the following
Carlisle
Ryder
Melksham
Hibbered
We received 2 first round picks and 3 second round picks in return.
Your arguing an alternate reality. We did trade out value and we did start the rebuild. Yes ASADA played a role, but your a few years too late in discussing if it’s time to rebuild. We already have.
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The wait and see element is to the argument in this thread to put in the cue and play the kids.
I’m saying that we should have gone harder and traded out more. And lets be clear, none of those guys left on the instigation of EFC, we tried to retain them all. We were forced into a rebuild, the club has never embraced it.
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Making the picks count Simon Conway - @SimonConway12 22 April 2017 12:54 PMThe Bombers have stockpiled some top end prospects in recent seasons, but it’s the ability to secure talent late in the draft that can set clubs apart.
That’s the view of Essendon List and Recruiting Manager Adrian Dodoro.
He’s secured first round picks Andrew McGrath, Darcy Parish, Aaron Francis, Kyle Langford and Jayden Laverde in the last three years.
But equally the Bombers have benefitted from landing quality players with their later picks.
Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (rookie draft), Michael Hartley (pick 68, 2015), Shaun McKernan (rookie draft) and Mitch Brown (pick 54, 2015) have all landed at the Club in the last three seasons.
While Cale Hooker (pick 54, 2007), Martin Gleeson (pick 53, 2012), Orazio Fantasia (pick 55, 2013), Patrick Ambrose (rookie draft) and Mark Baguley (rookie draft) are some of the success stories from earlier years.
“There is some real simple principles involved in recruiting – that is, get the best talent and put it on your list … and everyone is scrambling for those really talented players,” Dodoro told Bomber Radio.
“They’re the ones at the top end of drafts so we always want to be at the front end of the draft and get multiple picks.
“But if you want to get a strategic advantage then … we’re really looking at the back end of the draft and putting some resources into finding some gems.
“The guys that come out of your back end of the drafts are probably ‘doubley’ as valuable as the front end because the ones at the front end are identifiable for everyone to see.”
Dodoro said the success of Hawthorn in recent years is proof of the power of bringing a group through together.
That philosophy helped shape his decision to pick Andrew McGrath with the first selection in last November’s National Draft.
“What we wanted to do with the pick last year was find a young man that could come in and be a ten year player with Zach Merrett, Darcy Parish, Aaron Francis and Joe Daniher,” Dodoro said.
“If we’re going to be successful, you saw it with the Hawthorn dynasty, so many of those boys came through together, so their synergy was first class.
“If you’re going to be a premiership team down the track, you’ve got to have your core players coming through together.”
Adrian Dodoro says Essendon’s emerging young players, including McGrath, have the leadership qualities to drive the Club forward over the next few seasons.
“One thing Andrew McGrath will do is he’ll shape our Club the same way a Zach Merrett shapes the Club,” Dodoro said.
“He’s a leader and you want people like that shaping the direction of your Football Club.
“Footballers are more than just commodities on the field these days, their value off the field is immense.
“You see the way leadership group’s drive standards, and our mantra is ‘elite standards’, and that’s one thing this man will do – he’ll drive elite standards for hopefully 15 years with Joey, Zach, Parish, Aaron Francis, Langford and Laverde.
“That’s where I think the exciting future is for us.”
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