List changes 2017

That’s insulting to so many players its not funny.

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That is most assbackwards comment I’ve ever heard. Because a player is taken later in the draft they have a lower limit??? It might be a bonus pre-draft, but once they’re in the system their limit should be based on how you rate them.

I personally am very excited over Begley and Ridley. They look very good.

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That just confirms that you have no farking idea.

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I’m not necessarily saying he’ll be the best, I’m just more excited by him.

But I am convinced he’ll be very very very good.

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Ants, you are one of my faves but WTF?

Simply put Parish and McGrath right now are in our best 12 players. You would be hard pressed to argue otherwise.

Now I was using his draft position as a means of tempering expectations, not saying he had a limit.

But one year into his career what is wrong with saying that a pick 31 finding his way into the club’s best 12 players would be a massive bonus?

Also for someone who is into the draft. Given that players tend to be drafted in a rough order estimating there likelihood of success at AFL how is what I am saying a stretch.

Pick 31 making the best 12 players on the list is rare. Therefore a bonus. Imagine if Redman or Morgan did… it would be a massive bonus (particularly given what we have seen)?

I think you made some poor assumptions.

And I’m not putting a ceiling on him. I’m putting realistic expectations on him. Seems the OP agreed anyhow.

But in the world of Trump, SJW’s and white supremacists I am glad that my comment has achieved status as “the most assbackwards comment you have ever heard”.

In general I don’t think you’re wrong but in Begley’s case I think you are.
Taking into account 24 months ago Begley was running around EFL D3 under 19s as a “traditional” (fat fuck) full forward, before getting into seniors and kicking goals, then getting into seniors midfield, then getting to Eastern and kicking goals, then getting fit enough for midfield, then getting drafted somewhat earlier than expected, getting into VFL midfield rotations somewht earlier than expected, then an AFL debut somewhat earlier than expected?

I think it’s hrd to see where that level of progression stops. He just keeps impressing, much quicker than expected.

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HAP. This all makes sense. I tend to agree. And the context you provided previous made sense in that you didn’t necessarily say you think he will be the best.

He does seem to have a lot of potential.

The trick with him and virtually every ■■■■■■ player Dodoro picks outside Parish, McGrath and Mutch (i have Mutch love for Mutch) is not a natural ball winner. We need to draft ball pigs. Natural footballers who hunt the pill. My biggest apprehension for Begley is that the examples you give show he is again lacking in “ball pig” skills. If you can’t develop that you can’t midfield.

That’s why I’m happy with Langfords development path. Think BBB will inevitably have to do the same.

I’m pretty sure Mutch and Clarke were 2 of the most prolific guys in the whole TAC cup and we’ve already seen what mcGrath can do.

And Begley’s record suggests, despite coming from a way back athletically, he rips it up as soon as he has the tank for the level.

Hmm, you obviously rate Parish and McGrath differently to me. If neither improved from where they are now, I’d consider that pretty fricking disappointing. Parish is great for his second year, but currently an average mid. McGrath would be a good defender, but not much more. Given I thing Begley could be a lot more than that, I’d be disappointed if he only reached good defender level.

What I was really criticising is the logic though. Where someone is drafted should not be used to say what their limit is. Maybe their chances of making it, especially pre-draft. But draft position should soon be eclipsed by views on the player, and many late picks have high limits, they’ve just also got weaknesses or lack of evidence.

Toto, I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.

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I don’t think that’s an outrageous claim. McGrath is incredibly poised and calm for a first year player, and his ability to step into AFL football especially in a position that sees him regularly put in high pressure situations is exceptional. However, if he didn’t improve at all and was exactly the same player 10 years from now I think his career would be that of a good rebounding small defender.

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His first game in midfield for us he ends up with 13 possessions in the 3Q.

I don’t think we have too many concerns about an upward trend of development of the kid to be an absolute superstar

I’m not saying he won’t improve. But I am saying that his current level isn’t a hugely high hurdle for Begley to become better than.

Exactly. Very pleased with what he’s done this year, but if he never improved you’d be disappointed.

People forget how highly rated Melksham, Zaha and Dyson were early days by Blitz.

And which seasons results from that time have filled your heart with joy? Was it the North loss in the final when we were up by 6 goals or was it the 96 point loss to Adelaide? Or perhaps being done by 11 goals to Carlton gave you tears of joy?

We’ve had a team for basically two decades that has had a few stars mixed in with a lot of average players and only avid hand clapper one eyed enthusiasts see it any other way. Reality and results see otherwise, although I’m not sure you’re in touch with reality going by your actions previously.

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Two decades includes 2000.

I said “for the better part of two decades” and “basically two decades”. 17 years doesn’t have the same ring to it but my point is exactly the same and rings true. Are we really going to argue these type of semantics?

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We won finals in 2001-2004. We were pretty good in 2013. It’s a ridiculous statement.

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Begley is basically that fat prick at your local club thats like ‘yeah i could’ve made afl but i like beer too much’ except this kids actually done something about it.

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This I can agree on.

Completely dismissing any upward trajectory at all they are both in our best 12 players today. In a finals bound side no less. In my opinion that makes them by definition better than average AFL players.

And to say that McGrath is only a good defender after he played the best game on Eddie Betts in 3 years is quite baseless. I won’t ask for names because it’s pointless but you would be hard pressed finding too many small defenders better than him in the game today. Perhaps you could count them on one hand even, wouldn’t fill your second hand.

By the way it seems you called my opinion assbackwards but then changed the goalposts of the discussion…and this whole dissapointments if they don’t improve…really??? That seems like arguing the earth is round. People who think otherwise are…so bringing that to your argument is stupid.

And if you want to argue, argue the original point. Is BBB the most exciting young player on the list in your opinion? If so, great for you, but I suspect you are arguing something you actually don’t believe through some sort of twisted assumption on what was originally said.

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