Really? Did you not bother reading what has been said or just go off on a rant as well?
Why would the democrats give in though.
The master negotiator can’t get his signature policy up. Absolutely no reason to give him what he wants. If he gets it, he makes his next campaign around the wall. I can negotiate I got you the wall etc.
And they shouldn’t give in. I doubt they will easily.
I think my objection to describing it as “good” is valid.
That’s not a rant. No need for one.
Wall, fence, barrier…meh, all the same to him! I suppose it’s walls or “alternative walls”.
Valid if you are just wanting to argue semantics.
As Ants said, Hitler’s speeches are still considered good, even after all this time. Good from how they were delivered and what they achieved, not good from being right
I think you are mixing good and right.
Was Trump’s speech right? No
But was it good from a PR perspective to a target audience, yes.
Will it be picked apart? You bet
Will that sway anyone from him? Doubtful
More poorly delivered than a Bill Shorten budget reply, … completely bereft of any believability, meter or gravitas. Like a tone deaf singer wearing Breathing Apparatus.
He’s always been a terrible orator,… but this was worse than normal by a street.
Trump’s speech will make him more hated, so that’s good.
Trump wants to make the primary issue immigration, so the pressure is on the Dems to fund his border wall erection.
Dems want to make the primary issue the govt shutdown, so the pressure is on repubs to pass the spending bill (you know, the one they were fine with three weeks ago but now won’t even table)
I think the money would be on the dems here, despite every major media outlet seeming to be eager to fall for Trump’s manufactured ‘crisis’. The consequences of the govt shutdown are going to start biting hard very soon. National Parks are already closing, museums will follow, and it won’t be long before lots of people start experiencing real financial hardship. The pressure will be on the Repubs to reopen the govt, not on the Dems to build a wall.
There’s a good story in the NYT about a small Florida town near the Alabama/Georgia border that relies on federal jobs for it’s existence. There’s a prison there (famous for housing Squeaky Fromme, the Manson acolyte) that was seriously damaged by the hurricane. It will take a year to repair it. The inmates were moved to a facility in Alabama, a 7 hour drive away. Employees have been driving there and spending two week shifts in the town, getting their expenses reimbursed by the government.
Now there’s no flow of expense money, and no paycheck coming either. And half the town was damaged, with 10% of employees losing their homes completely. They’re worried about the shutdown and want to see the Democrats and Republicans reach a compromise. The area is heavily Republican.
The article closes with a quote from one Trump supporter that is pretty pithy about what seems to be the mentality of the Trump supporters. A ■■■■■■ off prison nurse says “He’s not hurting the people he’s supposed to hurt”.
(pinched from another site, couldn’t bother rewriting)
Lindsay Graham just went on Fox and implored Republicans not to break from Trump as it would destroy his Presidency and the party. The Dems can only gain from dragging this out and encouraging opposition congressmen to cross the floor.
As for the effectiveness of this speech / general ■■■■■■■■■■■, the Republicans just had record midterm turnout of their base and got absolutely demolished. Their base isn’t enough to compete against the larger and motivated Democrat base. They need swing voters, so they need to appeal to moderates. This seems like a base only strategy, which has already failed spectacularly just 2 months ago.
Does anyone actually think they will??
If they do, they’re dreaming, … they’d be even more bouyed to stay the course after that drivel. Everyone but the sycophants would be pizzing themselves with joy.
Or, they need to be able to discourage and/or ban Democratic voters from voting…
In the early Obama years they absolutely folded a number of times, partly because they saw the impacts on constituents, and partly so they could portray themselves as accountable, bipartisan and willing to deal.
They then observed that the Republicans just kept on upping the rhetoric, upping the threats, and that the Dems got no credit whatsoever from agreeing. So they stopped doing so.
But there is a fear amongst those who support the left that the Dem leadership still wants to appear as the adults and bipartisan, and see the hurt caused to constituents now and don’t play the long game. So they might just fold.
I did not watch either the speech or the rebuttal but have read through the transcripts. I think Trump blinked. And now the Democrats have to have the wherewithal to stick to their guns. This Friday will be the first missed paycheck for many impacted by the shutdown. I expect there will be hell to pay next week.
Perhaps Trump could buy up the dismantled Berlin Wall at a bargain price, and get his Russian mates to deliver and build it along the southern USA border
In my less than considered opinion neither Trump’s speech nor the Democrat response matter in the slightest. They will be forgotten about by Friday.
The only thing of consequence would have been if Trump had made the move to declare a national emergency and attempt to use the military to build the wall. He didn’t, so it’s a day of dandelion fluff.
Thus I speak from the sum total of knowledge gleaned by looking at one photo of Pelosi and Schumer looking awkward.
The Russians clearly have the relevant experience to build such a wall rapidly while avoiding large scale migration during the construction phase. Strong business case to outsource US border security to Russian contractors.