It’s one thing to have it in a book written thousands of years ago, it’s another thing to actively try and achieve it in this day and age and execute other people because of it
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It’s a strand of political islamism not the entire religion and is not the adopted ideology of an overwhelming majority of the billion + worshippers of Islam.
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Mate Islam has been around for hundreds of years
Terrorism by Islam extremists is a recent phenomenon
The IRA resorted to terrorism
The Basque separatists resorted to terrorism
The Karen resorted to terrorism
Islam is not the common theme.
The root cause is not the religion. The root cause is something deeper and the religion is commonly used to organize and to justify.
Ask yourself why Middle Eastern people might feel powerless enough to justify blowing themselves and others up to make a statement - your answer to that will tell you the root cause.
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You’re characterising the entire religion and not distinguishing the fairly modern strand of Jihadi Islamists. What Koranic passages endorse world domination?
Well, that’s the conundrum we now face. I find it funny however that ISIS wasn’t an issue before the US started blowing up all these countries/driving civil wars, with the excuse of “■■■ dictator and human rightz.” The US and the west created the environment for ISIS, now we are paying dearly. We create the refugees, then we don’t want them as we are understandably fearful of terrorists being mixed in with the genuine ones. All these people have to die for a bit of petrol, money and grandstanding. If the US actually worked with Russia, they might be able to fix some of the mess they’ve created. Why would they though? War is an industry.
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The lack of any sort of post invasion planning of Iraq, de-baathification and disbanding the Iraqi army had devastating consequences. Thousands of Sunni Muslims had no job and no prospect and we’re not active participants in Saddams regime (noting one had to be a Baath party member for any sort of job opportunities). Add the US support of Al-Maliki sectarian government and you have a recipe for disaster.
I meant to post in the general comments, did not mean to quote you.
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Is it me, because I can stop?
Just remember folks
- If the suspect is white, they acted alone and are probably mentally ill
- If the suspect is brown, they acted on behalf of around one billion others who also want to kill you and your family
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[quote=“SpicedRum, post:117, topic:10529, full:true”]flip side of the same coin… for example: they (islam) dont let woman work, wear bikinis, drive cars.
Where as we (in the west) see woman as sex symbols, in bikinis, the mistress, self reliant and working, etc… there social norms dont meet the same… and similar can be applied in other areas.[/quote]
So let’s suppose Islamic women were given a choice on what to wear and how to behave, they would instantly start dressing and behaving like western women because it’s what every woman should aspire to?
See, I’m not sure that’s entirely true. In fact, ISIS themselves disagree with you.
Late last year, an ISIS propaganda and recruitment publication named dabiq published an article titled ‘Why we hate you, and why we fight you.’ the author goes in to list, in order of importance, 6 major reasons for their religious war.
Number 1 is “Because you are disbelievers,” number 6 is “Because you invade our lands.”
The following statement is rather telling:
"What’s important to understand here is that although some might argue that your foreign policies are the extent of what drives our hatred, this particular reason for hating you is secondary, hence the reason we addressed it at the end of the above list.
“The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, imprisoning us, torturing us, vilifying us, and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam.”
Now sure, this is ISIS propaganda, but it is being used for recruitment. In fact, the author herself is not a native Iraqi hellbent on revenge, she’s a Finnish national who married into Islam, then fled to Iraq to join the caliphate. She even goes on to talk about the ‘joy’ of having her young son Martyed.
As far as the current attack is concerned, early reports are that it was about foreign intervention in the middle east.
But as far as ISIS is concerned… This war is VERY much about the doctrine of Islam, and their interpretation of it. (One could argue it’s a very twisted interpretation of it, while one could also argue it’s the most literal interpretation of it. I’m not smart enough to know myself.)
- Anybody interested in the article can check this out. Or, you could go straight to the source, and end up on a watch list.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/why-hate-you-isis-reveal-8533563.amp
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Thats all very true, but I still suspect that the motivations of western citizens who actually sacrifice themselves in a suicide bombing might be somewhat different from “we don’t like you because you dont embrace Islam”. I would hazard a guess that the rage required to actually commit such an act would likely be rooted in something more specific.
But I also could have no idea.
Yeah, I really have no idea either.
You mentioned the mental illness thing earlier, yeah? I’m sure that plays its part. In fact, I’m sure it’s a combination of many, many factors.
But Islam itself is one of those factors, and as of right now, in 2017, there is a dangerous problem with Islam.
Personally, I don’t think we should hate Muslims, or fight them, or wipe them all out, I think we should help them. (Muslims, not terrorists. Obviously:) Because no matter what your thoughts are on religion, nobody can deny that this particular one is in desperate need of reform.
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My ex teaches at an Islamic school and I can tell you these kids, whilst practicing religion, don’t wear their hijabs, hate the burka, wear bikinis to the beach, drink, go out…act like teenagers.
So yes, given the choice, they would rather assimilate, but still maintain their faith.
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This is all true but ISIS didn’t even exist fifteen years ago
Back then it was Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda who had very different objectives.
ISIS is an evolution, but Bin Laden has achieved what he set out to do, which is to drive a splinter between the West and Islam. When nationalist leaders like Trump, Le Pen and Farage get power, Bin Laden wins and ISIS gets fed
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True, and Bin Laden himself stated many times that his biggest issue was with foreign intervention in the holy land.
But the current threat has a very different MO, and they are seemingly more dangerous and more effective than Osama and his merry gang.
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Girls living in a western nation embracing western cultural ideals? Colour me shocked.
I was talking about Islamic women living in Islamic countries.
Ahhhh my bad, misunderstood your post. Sorry
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Yep it’s a wicked problem and the solution is not simple
In my opinion your first line of defense against radicalisation is moderate voices and community participation
Sport has a massive role to play there- we need to get local Islamic kids into teams where they are hearing voices beyond their community. Guys like bachar houli are critical- role models for holding onto your religious values but assimilating into society
As much as the nutjobs on the right hate Aly he has a big role to play as well- he gives moderates a voice and a platform, otherwise the only voices that are heard are the extremists
My only concern is that the slope has become too slippery now, anti-Islamic sentiment feeds hate, hate feeds marginalization, marginalization feeds extremism, etc
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The biggest comanality in these things is that it’s done predominantly by young marginalised men.
If you think it’s just Muslim men, then explain why young American men go into schools and shoot kids? The profile of an American shooter and European Muslim bomber are nearly identical the one difference religion.
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