That’s never going to happen. There is a world of difference between seeing a therapist to talk about your sexuality and seeing some quack for conversion therapy.
It’s like saying banning herbal cancer treatments means Doctors can’t use chemo. It’s not equivalent.
In post modernist view… Yes.
In a science view of genetics… No.
Non-Binary Gender - why not make this the new norm?
I’m not normally a fan of Susie (see article below), but I think she is halfway there on this one.
I must admit, the notion of non-binary gender is something I have only recently heard about as a new “category”, but it fits with what I have thought for a long time. The fact is we no longer define gender as strictly as we used to and it is now okay for men to be “feminine” and woman to be “masculine”, to whatever degree they want to be.
To me non-binary gender makes a lot of sense, and, rather than be a category, I can’t see why it can’t become the new norm.
Why should anyone have to strictly define themselves as male or female, just let everyone be who and whatever they want to be, dress however they want to dress, love whoever they want to love, without having a strict category that makes them normal or abnormal. The lines of the modern world are blurring, and why not take advantage of it, and just let people be people.
Just because two people are of the same sexuality and one is attracted to the other, doesn’t mean the other person has to be attracted back. To me this makes sexuality redundant. People are attracted to each other or not, they either want to have a relationship or not. That is their prerogative, they don’t need a category for that to happen.
Love is love.
It is only hate that needs categories.
Susie O’Brien, Herald Sun
August 2, 2018 3:29pm
Subscriber only
THE State Government doesn’t just want its workers to celebrate “They Day”, but even suggests gender-neutral pronouns such as “zie” and “hir” could be used.
The “They Day” video that is causing so much commotion today is just one small part of a raft of gender and sexuality inclusive measures brought in by the Victorian Department of Premier and Cabinet.
They Day is a move to get workers to use “they” and “them” instead of “he” and “she” for people who are gender diverse.
‘THEY DAY’ CAMPAIGN TO REPLACE ‘HE’ AND ‘HER’
KINDERGARTEN KIDS TO LEARN ABOUT GENDER EQUALITY
Participants at a pride parade. Picture: AFP Photo/Pau Barrena
But did you know the Department’s Inclusion plan also includes Intersex Awareness Day, Transgender Day of Remembrance, World Aids Day and IDAHOBIT Day?
In case you haven’t heard of it, IDAHOBIT Day is the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia, Intersex and Transphobia.
The plan also suggests that staff should be encouraged to take part in the 2018 Midsumma Carnival and 2018 Pride March, organise a volunteering day at an LGBTI community organisation and release a guide for trans employees who are transitioning at work.
There are also staff events for Wear it Purple Day and the Transgender Day of Remembrance.
Before you see this as evidence of the world gone mad, or the rise of crazy political correctness, think again.
Most of these initiatives have been in place for some time and haven’t involved anyone other than those who want to be involved.
TICK OF APPROVAL FOR EQUALITY POLICIES
A raft of gender and sexuality inclusive measures are being introduced by the Victorian Government.
As far as I am concerned, if State Government employees want to be known as “they” instead of “he” or “she”, then their views should be respected. If they want to be known as “zie” or “hir”, then they should be.
It’s just a small move but can make a world of difference to people who are intersex or transgender.
But these terms and measures shouldn’t be a blanket move imposed on the vast majority of people who are happy to be identified as either male or female, or he and she.
The risk is that some of these moves may put off people who are otherwise predisposed to be supportive of sexual diversity.
They shouldn’t be implemented so as to alienate those who are part of the broad majority.
Most people are generally accepting of the need to include and support gay, lesbian, trans, bisexual, gender diverse and intersex people in workplaces.
Artist Paul Sonsie with his Pride Cup mural in Yarra Glen.
The state government also has a sexual orientation terminology guide, which defines terms such as “gender diverse and non-binary”, “brotherboys” and “sistergirls” and “cisgender”.
To be honest, most of it is helpful and pretty mainstream. It suggests people use terms like “partner” rather than “husband” or “wife” and asks them not to assume that anyone with kids is automatically heterosexual.
It also notes that terms like “■■■■” and “■■■” may be used to LGBTI people themselves but can be derogatory when used by others.
As long as it’s not rammed down the throats of workers, or used to ostracise the vast majority of people who are heterosexual and have a clear gender identity, I can’t see what’s wrong with these measures.
“They Day” and “hir” and “zie” aren’t my cup of tea, but they don’t need to be.
Im curious to what the current approach for a therapist is…
If i come in claiming i think im Gay… could they say “thats OK”
But if a came in Gay stating i think im straight… can they say “thats OK”
It reallys comes down to that… we know it is OK to think your gay.
But to make a law that kind of swings to saying it is not OK if you are gay to think think you can become Straight? its border like bigotry.
That like saying you can offer transgender surgery because its like a form of conversion… it could extend to hormone replacement even…
Your arguing something that isn’t real.
It is perfectly legal and reasonable for somebody to see a therapist becuase they are unsure of their sexuality including expressing desires to not be gay, if that’s how they felt.
No one is proposing to ban this. No one is complaining about this. Every therapist would have these clients.
It’s a big issue, obviously all therapists have access to all the records of all the gays, from the exhaustive records kept at the register of gays down at the gay club.
Just ■■■■ off back into your hole, you throwback.
I think you are making this harder than it is.
If a person who previously felt gay wants to talk to a therapist about heterosexual thoughts, then that’s fine.
What, I assume, people want to get rid of are people (I’m gonna assume completely unqualified people) dealing exclusively with getting the gay out.
There doesn’t need to be any confusion there.
One is fine.
One is completely ■■■■■■.
I just like consistency, cohesion and laws based around sound princples.
You cant be progressive and claim a view of sexual and gender fluidity and then tell another group doing exactly the same thing because you dont like it, it needs to be banned, its is hypocrisy.
You have to take these things through to there logical conclusion from the prinicple/premise it stems from.
In my opinon if we are this progressive inclusive liberal democracy then we have to tolerate all forms of sexual and gender fluidity…
But there are people who already deal in getting the Male out of female and female out of male exclusively medically, if you can pay for it, you can have it.
I just dont find any consistency with these views.
Are those who support LGBTIQA who i thought where all a very liberal minded and progressive seem to become red neck like when it comes to those questioning being anything opposite to the rights they pushed for on the same principles for decades. its quite obscure.
It comes from reading the green left weekly.
I find a very real consistency and I don’t know how you’re missing it.
You make medical transformation sound like getting a medical certificate.
It is not.
The people involved in this very long process are not flogging it, because that would be completely immoral.
Instead they go through a very long and thorough process which some might say actually argues against the change.
That is the complete opposite of, ‘Gay is evil! Come to us and we’ll cure you!’
Perhaps you have another comparison?
Because that one…just no.
And there’s no confusing the two.
Edit: If you can pay for it you can have it?
Seriously?
You believe that’s how it works?
Just wish he’d come out and say it, “being gay is wrong and immoral and REPENT YE SINNERS”
This “consistency” line ain’t fooling anyone.
Yep.
There’s a not very nice angle at play here.
I’m assuming this gender-neutral pronoun stuff only applies to transexuals and intersex. What percentage of the population does that cover?
Way less than 1%, i’d Have thought.
Way less.
But I have no friends and I know a gender-fluid person, so it’s not as rare as all that.
By Hida | April 1, 2015
The most thorough existing research finds intersex people to constitute an estimated 1.7% of the population*, which makes being intersex about as common as having red hair (1%-2%). However, popularly misinterpretted, much referenced statistics would have you believe are numbers are much lower. Here’s why.
Some groups use an old prevalence statistic that says we make up 1 in 2000, or .05%, percent of the population, but that statistic refers to one specific intersex trait, ambiguous genitalia, which is but one of many variations which, combined (as they are in medical diagnostics and coding), constitute the 1.7% estimate by esteemed Professor of Biology and Gender Studies, Anne Fausto-Sterling, of Brown University*. A similar, slightly higher, statistic was also reported in, “How Sexually Dimorphic Are We?”, by Blackless, et al, in The American Journal of Human Biology.
“The belief that ■■■■ sapiens is absolutely dimorphic with the respect to sex chromosome composition, gonadal structure, hormone levels, and the structure of the internal genital duct systems and external genitalia, derives from the platonic ideal that for each sex there is a single, universally correct developmental pathway and outcome. We surveyed the medical literature from 1955 to the present for studies of the frequency of deviation from the ideal male or female. We conclude that this frequency may be as high as 2% of live births. The frequency of individuals receiving “corrective” genital surgery, however, probably runs between 1 and 2 per 1,000 live births (0.1–0.2%).” Am. J. Hum. Biol. 12:151–166, 2000. © 2000 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1520-6300(200003/04)12:2<151::AID-AJHB1>3.0.CO;2-F/abstract These two findings are the most thorough scientific research which exists on the statistical prevalence of congenital intersex traits in humans.
The erroneous belief that we are an extremely tiny percentage of the population is often used to dismiss our need for legal rights and protections. Thus, we encourage everyone — particularly allies and/or members of the press educating others about intersex people — to please use the information and prevalence statistic provided here to accurately do so. Thank you!
https://www.intersexequality.com/how-common-is-intersex-in-humans/
I’ve never encountered any, and I’m much older than you, even though I don’t look it.
Anyway, this generation is sorting it all out themselves.
I’m gonna be the first to admit I don’t get it.
And I doubt very much that the Victorian Government gets it.
But that doesn’t really matter.
People appreciate when you try.
From:
Back to main Face the Facts page
Equality and freedom from discrimination are fundamental human rights that belong to all people, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity or because they are intersex. 
On 1 August 2013, the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 was amended to make discrimination on the basis of a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and intersex status against the law.
Despite this important step forward, lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and intersex (LGBTI) people in Australia still experience discrimination, harassment and hostility in many parts of everyday life; in public, at work and study, accessing health and other services and securing proper recognition of their sex in official documents.
The Commission can investigate complaints of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity and intersex status under the Sex Discrimination Act, which was amended in August 2013.
The amended Act also protects same-sex couples from discrimination under the definition of “marital or relationship status”.
We have conducted a number of major projects in recent years to identify and build community awareness around the human rights issues faced by LGBTI people.
Find out more about our work in this area.
[1] Department of Health, Australian Government, National Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex (LGBTI) Ageing and Aged Care Strategy (2012), p 4.
4102.0 - Australian Social Trends, July 2013, Same-Sex Couples (July 2013).
[3] Australian Bureau of Statistics, above.
[4] Australian Bureau of Statistics, note 2.
[5] See the information page What is Intersex? Defining Intersex on the OII Australia website for a more detailed explanation of intersex.
[6]OII Australia, On the number of intersex people information page
[7] Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University, Private Lives 2: The second national survey of the health and wellbeing of GLBT Australians (2012) pp 45-46.
[8] Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University, above, p 46.
[9] Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University, Writing Themselves in 3: The third national study on the sexual health and wellbeing of same sex attracted and gender questioning young people(2010), p 39.
[10] Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University, above, p 39.
[11] For example, while 26 per cent of males and 23 per cent of females reported experiencing verbal abuse within a 12 months period, the percentages jump to 47 per cent and 37 per cent for trans males and trans females respectively. See Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University, note 7, p 47.
[12] Beyond Blue, In my shoes: Experiences of discrimination, depression and anxiety among gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans and intersex people (2012), pp 1-2.
[13] Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University, note 9, p 40.
[14] T Jones and Western Australian Equal Opportunity Commission, A report about discrimination and bullying on the grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity in Western Australian education (2012), p 11.
[15] Australian Bureau of Statistics, note 2.
[16] Australian Bureau of Statistics, note 2.
[17] Australian Bureau of Statistics, note 2.
[18] University of Melbourne, Australian Study of Child Health In Same-Sex Families (ACHESS): Interim report(2013), p 1.
[19] Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society, La Trobe University, note 7, p 46.
I know a few people who are youth workers or work in youth mental health.
There’s all sorts.
intersex, transgender, people in gay relationships who identify as straight, and on and on. It’s a funny old world.
You mightn’t be surprised to learn that a lot of people who’ve been told they’re something when they feel they’re another, often don’t do so well. Often end up at the fringes of society, struggling for work, difficulties socially etc.
In a lot of ways people’s attitudes (ie acceptance, tolerance) can play a real part in all of that.
But I’m not sure where the line is of what should be taught to kids. The important bit, surely, is “treat people how they’d like to be treated”.
So you don’t support stopping gay men that believe they are hetrosexuals from seeking Therapy to help transistion to hetrosexual? But you believe people telling someone they are something they are not is damaging?
Cause im confused as to what your position is?
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