Midfield Woes: Instant fix

Wish we could just pull a FIFA and simulate to the offseason, I CBF with this season. But I feel as if more disappointment awaits.

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You seem to be conveniently forgetting the crap we’ve been through, & oh,… what was it again?? Thats right, . fking draft sanctions you bork.

You are proving your ignorance in spades footy wise, as you do in the Politics thread.

Fair dinkum,… please just sthu, you are clearly clueless.

And you and the rest of the apologists continually dodge the reality that hes been at the club for 20 odd years. He couldn’t get trades done pre-saga and his best draft result was mid saga. Besides that I have just been told he’s not responsible for the list anyway so why are you defending him? Make your minds up. What is he actually responsible for???

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My last go -

I am not BSD, do not speak for him, nor he for me, so your point about ‘making up minds’ is childish.
I did not say he was not responsible for anything. My opinion and point is that it is a team effort, and a team that has changed and evolved over many years.

Silly old me actually thought we were a possibility of playing finals this year and that we had genuine depth. I’ve only just realised we have a terrible list and will be bottom 4 for years to come.
Anyone disagree? if so why?

A lot of fans on this site suffer from BFD. Bipolar fan disorder.

This is characterised by the following symptoms:

Unrealistic, and unjustifiable lidoffness during the pre-season.
Rapid descent into depression after 2 defeats.
Caustic criticism of every young player at the club
Caustic criticism of every older player at the club
Caustic criticism of every coach at the club.

A cycle that will most probably be repeated each year.

FCS just enjoy the wins and enjoy it when Tippa get the ball.

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Fair enough but that was the classic example of Dodoro being teflon round these parts. Would you agree he is largely responsible for the list? Is there anyone at the club you think is more responsible? Maybe if you were more specific about what level of responsibility you attribute to him we may find common ground. In the past it’s simply been a case of deflect any criticism at all.
As I’ve said here numerous times - no single person is responsible for failure and no single person can ensure success. I know as well as anyone here that the entire club had issues and failings because I was one of the people pointed them out every year only to be told I was wrong, our facilities weren’t terrible, our footy Dept wasn’t underfunded etc… I absolutely acknowledge that we didn’t develop the players Dodoro drafted as well as we should have. I have no problem in acknowledging the fact that Jackson was more interested in a balance sheet profit than paying for the best of everything. Again I was one of those people pointing out these issues while the blitzthink blindly defended everything the club did.

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The very first step, is identifying what players are needed to fulfill the vision of the coaching team - who are employed on contracts for a specified amount of time. The recruitment team encompasses firstly list analysis and talent identification. The method to achieve the talent required is explored, including draft (and all that goes with it including trading of picks) and trade (and all the complexities and repercussions of that).

Game style affects talent requirements, and talent affects game style. The two are intertwined. A complete make-over, which may occur when a new coaching team is employed, would be influenced largely by the game style the coaching team plan to employ. A partial build would take into account, obviously, the currant talent and age group.

Non of this is a revelation - it’s all pretty obvious. JW has a vision for the team - he will solidify that vision over the next 4 months or so. He and his team will discuss, debate and deliberate and together with the list management team, come up with ideal future requirements. That would involve, at various levels of responsibility, over a dozen professionals - including medical staff.

Again - this should be obvious.

Recruitment will be constantly searching for talent from all areas to fulfill the talent requirements agreed on - which, of course, may also be amended according to injuries, retirements, de-listings and/or anything unexpected, not excluding the evolution of the game itself.

You probably knew all this though.

So, as talent gets brought into the fold - draftees, trades and other rookies, the list begins to take shape in the image that the Coach envisioned it. This takes a lot of time. And of course - it also takes a lot of skill. But it also takes a lot of luck. Because although you can select a #3 draft pick who is exactly what you need in 5 years time - that draft pick may be Gumbleton, or may be Hodge. And players you picked may or may not develop as you planned, for a myriad of reasons. And if they do, then they may get injured. Or leave. Or get caught rooting a wombat outside a police station. Or whatever.

And of course, I could go on for ever, and expand on this, because it really is a complex subject and chaos theory has a big hand in it. The point is, once again - it is simplistic to do what people do for every farking thing these days, and point in one direction and cry ‘burn the witch’.

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So this is where this thread went, I was feeling lost without it!!

Dodoro has a large responsibility, but it’s fair to say that it’s not only him.

Depending on the game plan that the coaches want to implement player x can be either a gun, or a liability.(in the extreme case). In the last decade Dodoro has been trying to recruit for Knights, Hird, Thompson, Hird, Worsfold. All with different requirements in terms of the skill sets they prioritise. Combine that with the coaches having disjointed continuity with the suspended players and it makes sense that the midfield group is not the best in the league.

Give Worsfold and Dodoro a couple of years and we’ll hopefully be looking at an A grade group.

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“Hopefully”

We’ve been “hopefully looking” for 16 years now.

Lucky there’s two things that EFC can rely on its fans for: being hopeful. and being patient with mediocre management.

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Lol, … and I just give the majority of it the big scroll-by now because I was getting lost within it!!

Very little reason or logic, lot’s of rabid non nonsensical ranting & blaming, all based on ignoring the past 5 years even happened.

After equating many posts with “Fake News” & “Alternative Facts”, … I just about gave up completely, … but then along comes the odd post like this one that takes a more calm sentient approach.

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If we take a midfielder and their development, the best you are likely to get is a Zerret situation - elite after 3 years in the game and ideally in his prime for another 7-12. The usual / slower development is prime period kicks in after 5 years and you get another 5-10 years of prime after that (Watson).

For a key position player the development we all know is slower.

Therefore, trading in players (in general) is taking from the future years (3 at best but really 5-12) via a first round 18 year old in return for a near term gain (0-5 years) from a ready made player. Yes, this player may carry on being a gun after 5 years - but that is not the reason you trade them in (Tom Boyd is an exception of course).

We aren’t in the position to do that at the moment.

However, in 2 years time we have players in their prime:
Heppel
Hurley
Zerret
Hooker
Parish
McGrath (assuming a Zerret type development which i think is fair)
Fanta
Langford
Walla
Colyer
Daniher

A couple of the other young guys might have stepped up and Zaka and the like might have returned to form as well.

We will have lost; Watson, Goddard, Kelly, Bagley, Hocking, Howlett, Stanton, likely Myers and Bird as well. This group combined frees up a massive amount of cash. 50-75% of which goes to the guys in their prime on our list now the rest goes to trade in the players we need ‘now’ to fill the gaps while we have a window. We take from 2021-2024 to have a dip in 2019-2021.

Ideally at that stage we have become a destination club again and we can get a couple of players ‘cheaper’ because they want to come here.

As much as I would like to be in the window in the next couple of years - I can’t see it happening. As such, back to the well at the draft this year and next.

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Sorry, but that is plain wrong. From 2005 to 2006 we took with top 20 picks:

2005: Dempsey
2006: Jetta and Hislop
2007: Myers
2009: Melksham
2010: Heppell
2011: Kav

We further took Zaha and Colyer with picks in the twenties. For four of the five years to 2011 we took a mid with our first pick. We spent plenty of top draft coin on midfielders.

See above.

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[quote=“Fairybread, post:261, topic:10289, full:true”]

This isn’t entirely correct. A club can be paying near the max and still have room if they’re bringing forward a lot of the payments.

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I think he gets a bit of a pass for the period up until about 2006. For prior periods he had a duel role, stuff all funding, late picks and Sheedy stealing plenty of them (eg Davies). From then on he is definitely on the hook. Where he may get off the hook is strategy. I’m on record saying I thought the 2013 to 2015 list management strrategy was terrible. But I have no idea who set it.

I feel like he has the right Idea, wanting to bring the core of Hep, Parish, Zerrett, Frang, McGrath, Fanta, McKenna and Langford up together to form chemistry. I feel like that period has been okay so far 2013 we got Zerrett,
fanta and ambrose, 2014 was lang and lav, 2015 was Walla, Parish and Franga, and other than Mcgrath,
we don’t know what the likes of Mutch, Clarke and Ridley hold. I hope bringing this squad provides us with t the type of chemistry and cohesion which teams like adelaide have, it takes a few seasons to build w[quote=“Ants, post:296, topic:10289, full:true”]

I think he gets a bit of a pass for the period up until about 2006. For prior periods he had a duel role, stuff all funding, late picks and Sheedy stealing plenty of them (eg Davies). From then on he is definitely on the hook. Where he may get off the hook is strategy. I’m on record saying I thought the 2013 to 2015 list management strrategy was terrible. But I have no idea who set it.
[/quote]

It seems apart from one year (2013) our 2nd round and 3rd round picks just aren’t coming on like we’d hope.

Dodoro has stated that he believes you go for risk picks in the 2nd round and safe with the 3rd (or middle tier picks and your lower ones). I don’t agree with this at all, I reckon you go safe with the 2nd round and balls to the wall risks with the lower picks. Nothing gets the fans riled like seeing picks in the 20s-40s not come on. you kinda expect it with the 50-70 range and are pleasantly surprised if you get a diamond in the rough.

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Our 21 to 35 range picks appear to be reasonably successful. From 2007 they’re Pears, Zaharakis, Colyer, Carlisle, Steinberg, J Merrett, Ashby, Zerrett and Laverde. The misses from 2010 to 2012 were generally later picks due to the new teams.

Good to see you here countering the “Alternate” facts brigade Ants, …

I was hoping,& sure someone soon would,… ICBF anymore.

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[/quote]
My issues with the strategy were things like rolling over on the Crameri and Ryder deals, recruiting Edwards, Aylett, Chapman, Gwilt, Giles and Cooney, convincing Winders to play on, convincing Howlett to stay, and not being proactive on a rebuild.