Last time Lebron missed the finals, 78% of current NBA players weren’t even in the league yet.
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Beating Celtics without Kyrie and Hayward isn’t exactly the highlight of LeBron’s career
He did have a group of teammates as bad as any of the Cleveland rosters he had in the past though
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Personally I think that history will judge LeBron and Jordan on relatively equal footing.
Both dominated their peers for a decade or more, Jordan clearly the better defender, James clearly the better distributer.
Jordan was clutch earlier, James has come into his own as a clutch player in his last 5 seasons.
I think the one thing that separates the two is that Jordan will forever haunt his peers more than James will. Stockton/Malone, Ewing/Oakley/Stark, Majerle/Barkley/Ainge/Johnston, Wilkins/Augmon, Drexler/Porter/Duckworth, Payton/Kemp/Schrempf/Hawkins. Those were some seriously great teams anchored around hall of famers that didn’t win ■■■■ when Jordan was playing.
Even Olajuwon’s Rockets only got their two champs when Jordan was out, otherwise he’d be having nightmares too.
James let Pierce, Garnett and Allen build a dynasty and relied on Ray to bring them down when he went to Miami. He let Pop build a dynasty around Duncan, Manu and Parker. And more recently the GSW juggernaught.
You get the feeling once Jordan beat the Pistons bad boys he was never going to lose to anyone again.
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I started hearing this rubbish last year.
Since when does being an all star make that big a difference?
Michael Adams made the all star game one year. Surely that doesn’t make him a better teammate than John Paxton or Craig Hodges?
Lebron has had no one on his team that is considered top 50 of all time. The closest would be Shaq and that was well past his prime.
Jordan had one. In his prime.
Wait…
So the east is worse now than back then?
The year Jordan left Scottie on his own, the Bulls still got knocked out to New York in 7 and still finished 3rd in their conference.
Can you say the same if you took Lebron out of Cleveland?
Can understand the argument if he was at Miami, but he’s proved he can win without a dominant team around him.
Unfair to downplay what he’s done since going back to Cleveland.
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A top 2 player joining a 73 win team?
Prime Wade, 3 years of prime Kyrie, and 18 x 35 year olds trying to piggy back for a ring.
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Totally agree, this Cleveland team is probably worse than 07, that 07 team was at least good defensively.
But this run drew favourable opponents each round. You can’t deny that.
And all he is has done is bring down the Pacers, Barneys and this Celtics team which is without their best player. He hasn’t won yet
You can’t tell me adding Kyrie to that team doesn’t get them over the Cavs.
And he hasn’t won without a dominant team around him.
Oh and Wade 100% is in the top 50 and Irving could be when it’s all said and done
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The big thing people forget with Jordan is he was 10 time scoring champion as well. The only other player that’s gone close to that is Wilt a million years ago on 7.
With that scoring power the argument could have been he was only offense, selfish etc. but the rings and his defensive team nods prove this wasn’t the case.
He is the greatest offensive player the sport has known. Won 6 rings and was Finals MVP all 6 times. Plus regular season MVP 5 times.
The challenge is what is missing from MJ’s record, other than not take his break, there isn’t anything he didn’t do. You can’t say the same for LBJ. There are flaws and finals series where you would say he could have done better.
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Who do you take out of the top 50 to make way for Wade?
Given you already have to make way for Kobe, Lebron himself, Tim Duncan and maybe Dirk?
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Yeah, 9 times all defensive first team.
He is also only 1 of 7 guards to ever have won the award.
Whether anyone thinks LBJ is the goat, or he isn’t, and he is to me 100% and I don’t care what anyone says regardless, let’s just appreciate how good he’s currently playing. There might not be another player this good in our lifetimes.
LeBron played all 48 minutes in his 100th game of the season in his 15th year and went 34-15-9 without Kevin Love in Game 7 on the road, and is in his eighth straight finals. He is fkn insane
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Give it 5 years
Ben Simmons Goat
Cracking question I’d also add KG, KD and Iverson.
At a glance probably Wes Unseld, Hal Greer, Bill Walton, Dave DeBusschere, Dolph Schayes, Earl Monroe and Lenny Wilkins
For Duncan, Dirk, LeBron, Wade, KD, Garnett and Iverson
lebrons good but prime wade was 100% more entertaining.
There is every likelihood that we may get another player like him immediately.
Ben Simmons is 21
Giannis Antetokoumpo is 23
Kristaps Porzingus is 22
all those guys are putting up insane numbers for their respective ages and have the potential to be transcendent players the likes of which the league has never seen
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Interesting that it’s changing of the guard across a heap of sports
LBJ
Nadal and Feder
Ronaldo and Messi
Tiger
Usain Bolt
There was some iconic Goats in the last decade.
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Tom Brady
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Bron had a better first year than Porzingis has had yet! Not in the same postcode for mine (neither are the other two, yet…)