Opportunities in the best 22

[browne24]

for the sake of the exercise if you draw a line through everyone over 29 what does our team look like

bags hurls stein/pears
hibbard hooker gleeson

laverde hepp zaha
Luenberger hocking zerret

colyer smack langford
edwards JD Connor

myers howlett dempsey Fanta

emerg: Jerrett tbell N’Ob

we are about to bring 3 top 25 picks

the list situation isn’t as dire as some here think though there are some structural problems no dbout. We’ve brought in some cover for the ruck issue, and we may get some cover for KP issue if we can nab brown or a promising young KP.

I also reckon Francis, if we can pick him up, would walk into that side, probably in stein’s spot for now.

The backline should be fine for at least 3 years (hooker will turn 30 in 3 years). We are adding pace through the youngsters which will help with our ball movement. Cross our fingers that we don’t have to play without a ruckman and 3 of our best 4 ball winners for the most of the year. The forward line will show some natural progression. Wada will be behind us.

That side could be competitive and probably fall just short of finals. Put jobe, stanton and BJ into it and see what happens.

As for opportunities there is clearly one available for a 3rd tall and gleeson’s spot is far from set. Up forward there is also an opportunity for a 3rd tall and a small forward. In the midfield i’d be hoping the fanta and laverde become permanent fixtures.

You do realise you have Smack at CHF and that the positions you think that need to be filled in the forward line are 3rd tall and small forward. He kicked 6 goals last year and took 3 I50 marks.

[ivan]

for the sake of the exercise if you draw a line through everyone over 29 what does our team look like

bags hurls stein/pears
hibbard hooker gleeson

laverde hepp zaha
Luenberger hocking zerret

colyer smack langford
edwards JD Connor

myers howlett dempsey Fanta

emerg: Jerrett tbell N’Ob

we are about to bring 3 top 25 picks

the list situation isn’t as dire as some here think though there are some structural problems no dbout. We’ve brought in some cover for the ruck issue, and we may get some cover for KP issue if we can nab brown or a promising young KP.

I also reckon Francis, if we can pick him up, would walk into that side, probably in stein’s spot for now.

The backline should be fine for at least 3 years (hooker will turn 30 in 3 years). We are adding pace through the youngsters which will help with our ball movement. Cross our fingers that we don’t have to play without a ruckman and 3 of our best 4 ball winners for the most of the year. The forward line will show some natural progression. Wada will be behind us.

That side could be competitive and probably fall just short of finals. Put jobe, stanton and BJ into it and see what happens.

As for opportunities there is clearly one available for a 3rd tall and gleeson’s spot is far from set. Up forward there is also an opportunity for a 3rd tall and a small forward. In the midfield i’d be hoping the fanta and laverde become permanent fixtures.

You do realise you have Smack at CHF and that the positions you think that need to be filled in the forward line are 3rd tall and small forward. He kicked 6 goals last year and took 3 I50 marks.

and played as first ruck the whole time, what’s your point. i think the game is shifting away from having two big key forwards plus a ruck. one big, one tallish agile hit up, one resting ruck. Yes i “named” smack at CHF but he’d still be the resting ruck with langford or edwards being the tallish hit up guy. there is an opportunity there for someone to step up and be a partner to joe in a gunston type role.

[Westing_Wuckman]

This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.

I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.

I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.

Some players play longer… some don’t.

Players for the EFC that played past the year they turned 31 since 2002

Salmon 37
Alessio 32
Camporeale 32
Hird 34
Lucas 32
Hille 32
Chapman 34
Fletcher 40

That’s a pretty exclusive list, and there aren’t that many blokes you look back on and think they should’ve kept going.

Current list turning 31 in 2016… Watson, Goddard, Cooney.

I think Watson and Goddard fit comfortably in the same category as those past players.

[browne24]

for the sake of the exercise if you draw a line through everyone over 29 what does our team look like

bags hurls stein/pears
hibbard hooker gleeson

laverde hepp zaha
Luenberger hocking zerret

colyer smack langford
edwards JD Connor

myers howlett dempsey Fanta

emerg: Jerrett tbell N’Ob

we are about to bring 3 top 25 picks

the list situation isn’t as dire as some here think though there are some structural problems no dbout. We’ve brought in some cover for the ruck issue, and we may get some cover for KP issue if we can nab brown or a promising young KP.

I also reckon Francis, if we can pick him up, would walk into that side, probably in stein’s spot for now.

The backline should be fine for at least 3 years (hooker will turn 30 in 3 years). We are adding pace through the youngsters which will help with our ball movement. Cross our fingers that we don’t have to play without a ruckman and 3 of our best 4 ball winners for the most of the year. The forward line will show some natural progression. Wada will be behind us.

That side could be competitive and probably fall just short of finals. Put jobe, stanton and BJ into it and see what happens.

As for opportunities there is clearly one available for a 3rd tall and gleeson’s spot is far from set. Up forward there is also an opportunity for a 3rd tall and a small forward. In the midfield i’d be hoping the fanta and laverde become permanent fixtures.

You do realise you have Smack at CHF and that the positions you think that need to be filled in the forward line are 3rd tall and small forward. He kicked 6 goals last year and took 3 I50 marks.

and played as first ruck the whole time, what’s your point. i think the game is shifting away from having two big key forwards plus a ruck. one big, one tallish agile hit up, one resting ruck. Yes i “named” smack at CHF but he’d still be the resting ruck with langford or edwards being the tallish hit up guy. there is an opportunity there for someone to step up and be a partner to joe in a gunston type role.

My point is he’s done nothing to suggest he can play as a key forward. He’s someone who we took off the scrapheap that performed admirably in the ruck who’s now being asked to play as a key forward. Our forward line was the worst performed in the league this year and we just lost Carlisle meaning that Hooker will now have to play back. I don’t have a problem with that being a forward line up next year or your beliefs on where the game is headed, just that it’s going to be good any time soon and there’s just a few more positions to fill. Next couple of years are going to be JD or bust for our forward line, the rest being a bunch of names thrown on the board and seeing what works.

[Ants]

This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.

I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.

I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.

Some players play longer… some don’t.

Players for the EFC that played past the year they turned 31 since 2002

Salmon 37
Alessio 32
Camporeale 32
Hird 34
Lucas 32
Hille 32
Chapman 34
Fletcher 40

That’s a pretty exclusive list, and there aren’t that many blokes you look back on and think they should’ve kept going.

Current list turning 31 in 2016… Watson, Goddard, Cooney.

I think Watson and Goddard fit comfortably in the same category as those past players.

You mean the comfortable category for Watson where not a single inside-midfielder is in that list? None of Misiti, Pev, JJ, MJ made it past 31. Only three guys who weren't KP or ruck roles either.

[Ants]

for the sake of the exercise if you draw a line through everyone over 29 what does our team look like

bags hurls stein/pears
hibbard hooker gleeson

laverde hepp zaha
Luenberger hocking zerret

colyer smack langford
edwards JD Connor

myers howlett dempsey Fanta

emerg: Jerrett tbell N’Ob

we are about to bring 3 top 25 picks

the list situation isn’t as dire as some here think though there are some structural problems no dbout. We’ve brought in some cover for the ruck issue, and we may get some cover for KP issue if we can nab brown or a promising young KP.

I also reckon Francis, if we can pick him up, would walk into that side, probably in stein’s spot for now.

The backline should be fine for at least 3 years (hooker will turn 30 in 3 years). We are adding pace through the youngsters which will help with our ball movement. Cross our fingers that we don’t have to play without a ruckman and 3 of our best 4 ball winners for the most of the year. The forward line will show some natural progression. Wada will be behind us.

That side could be competitive and probably fall just short of finals. Put jobe, stanton and BJ into it and see what happens.

As for opportunities there is clearly one available for a 3rd tall and gleeson’s spot is far from set. Up forward there is also an opportunity for a 3rd tall and a small forward. In the midfield i’d be hoping the fanta and laverde become permanent fixtures.

On the opportunities front, I'd point out that there is no guarantee the guys over 29 will be overlooked. Which is my point, since for that team above to develop, a chunk of it needs development time. Ignoring the fact Pears/Stein aren't good enough, all of Gleeson, Laverde, Langford, Smack, Edwards, McKenna, Jerrett, NOB and Fantasia (and arguably Belly) have yet to prove themselves. They all need games to either develop or fail. Plus Myers, Luey, are injury prone, Dempsey's got question marks, there are a few issues there. Frankly, that side if put out next year would struggle to break out of the bottom 4, although obviously adding in the over 29's would help.

On the ruck/talls side, every top 5 team this year played either 2 rucks, or 1 ruck and 3 KP forwards. I think if anything the value of people who can control the air is understated, and having multiple options so the one or two left aren’t double teamed all the time is critical. I also think Langford will be a midfielder.

[Westing_Wuckman]

This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.

I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.

I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.

Some players play longer… some don’t.

Players for the EFC that played past the year they turned 31 since 2002

Salmon 37
Alessio 32
Camporeale 32
Hird 34
Lucas 32
Hille 32
Chapman 34
Fletcher 40

That’s a pretty exclusive list, and there aren’t that many blokes you look back on and think they should’ve kept going.

Current list turning 31 in 2016… Watson, Goddard, Cooney.

I think Watson and Goddard fit comfortably in the same category as those past players.

You mean the comfortable category for Watson where not a single inside-midfielder is in that list? None of Misiti, Pev, JJ, MJ made it past 31. Only three guys who weren't KP or ruck roles either.

Tim Watson played his last game at 33 years of age. Now I wasn’t around back then (well I was, but not old enough to follow footy). Do Tim and Jobe have the same body type? And did Tim play on one year too long? Why did he retire? A specific injury or a general case of ‘mind still willing, but body not holding up week to week’.

[Henry_s_Angry_Pills]

Always great to have someone start a post that is straight out negative and pessimistic.

I like how the other day it was "we need to clear out everyone except Heppell and Zerrett" and now we can't find a spot for anyone at all.

There’s always opportunities.
Right now we need to be leaning more towards putting kids and younger/newer guys into those spots.
That’s about the extent of it.

[Blummers32]

This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.

I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.

I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.

Some players play longer… some don’t.

Players for the EFC that played past the year they turned 31 since 2002

Salmon 37
Alessio 32
Camporeale 32
Hird 34
Lucas 32
Hille 32
Chapman 34
Fletcher 40

That’s a pretty exclusive list, and there aren’t that many blokes you look back on and think they should’ve kept going.

Current list turning 31 in 2016… Watson, Goddard, Cooney.

I think Watson and Goddard fit comfortably in the same category as those past players.

You mean the comfortable category for Watson where not a single inside-midfielder is in that list? None of Misiti, Pev, JJ, MJ made it past 31. Only three guys who weren't KP or ruck roles either.

Tim Watson played his last game at 33 years of age. Now I wasn’t around back then (well I was, but not old enough to follow footy). Do Tim and Jobe have the same body type? And did Tim play on one year too long? Why did he retire? A specific injury or a general case of ‘mind still willing, but body not holding up week to week’.

Tim came back from two years off to play in 93.
He also never went anywhere near the midfield. He was pretty much a forward that stayed within 80m goal.
He also didn’t play a game until round 7 (a night game against Fitzroy) so he slowly worked himself into the year.

I can’t think of a midfielder in the last decade with Joe’s body type to continue playing in the midfield too far past the age of 30.

[Henry_s_Angry_Pills]

This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.

I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.

I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.

Some players play longer… some don’t.

Players for the EFC that played past the year they turned 31 since 2002

Salmon 37
Alessio 32
Camporeale 32
Hird 34
Lucas 32
Hille 32
Chapman 34
Fletcher 40

That’s a pretty exclusive list, and there aren’t that many blokes you look back on and think they should’ve kept going.

Current list turning 31 in 2016… Watson, Goddard, Cooney.

I think Watson and Goddard fit comfortably in the same category as those past players.

You mean the comfortable category for Watson where not a single inside-midfielder is in that list? None of Misiti, Pev, JJ, MJ made it past 31. Only three guys who weren't KP or ruck roles either.

Tim Watson played his last game at 33 years of age. Now I wasn’t around back then (well I was, but not old enough to follow footy). Do Tim and Jobe have the same body type? And did Tim play on one year too long? Why did he retire? A specific injury or a general case of ‘mind still willing, but body not holding up week to week’.

Tim came back from two years off to play in 93.
He also never went anywhere near the midfield. He was pretty much a forward that stayed within 80m goal.
He also didn’t play a game until round 7 (a night game against Fitzroy) so he slowly worked himself into the year.

I can’t think of a midfielder in the last decade with Joe’s body type to continue playing in the midfield too far past the age of 30.

Tim’s more like Dane Swan’s body type, more of a mover than Jobe but almost as chunky.

Not as big & tall but Mattie Boyd is still playing well, career inside mid moved onto a back flank this year @ 33yo. Goodwin was another biggish inside mid who moved back onto a flank in his last few years, he played til 33, Riccuito went forward at 31, Mitchell’s still going (plays a bit of HBF) at 34.

All this says to me, Jobe might still have something to offer, but we can’t rely on him playing full time mid even if he was fit. And after his shocking injury history since 2012 it’s a complete pipe dream. HFF/3rd tall forward for mine, and chuck him into midfield for short spells.

[Deckham]

This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.

I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.

I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.

Some players play longer… some don’t.

Players for the EFC that played past the year they turned 31 since 2002

Salmon 37
Alessio 32
Camporeale 32
Hird 34
Lucas 32
Hille 32
Chapman 34
Fletcher 40

That’s a pretty exclusive list, and there aren’t that many blokes you look back on and think they should’ve kept going.

Current list turning 31 in 2016… Watson, Goddard, Cooney.

I think Watson and Goddard fit comfortably in the same category as those past players.

You mean the comfortable category for Watson where not a single inside-midfielder is in that list? None of Misiti, Pev, JJ, MJ made it past 31. Only three guys who weren't KP or ruck roles either.

Tim Watson played his last game at 33 years of age. Now I wasn’t around back then (well I was, but not old enough to follow footy). Do Tim and Jobe have the same body type? And did Tim play on one year too long? Why did he retire? A specific injury or a general case of ‘mind still willing, but body not holding up week to week’.

Tim came back from two years off to play in 93.
He also never went anywhere near the midfield. He was pretty much a forward that stayed within 80m goal.
He also didn’t play a game until round 7 (a night game against Fitzroy) so he slowly worked himself into the year.

I can’t think of a midfielder in the last decade with Joe’s body type to continue playing in the midfield too far past the age of 30.

I know a few forwards that stay around 160m away from goal. Sometimes called ‘fullbacks’.

[GRR]

I’ll upset people here but such is life. Jobe is a great player but his dad was way better. Like the best bomber I’ve seen better, like way better than Hird type better. He had everything, speed, heart, skill, explosiveness, you name it. When he got the ball the crowd’s collective heart rate went through the roof. Think Fyfe, but more explosive and better. And 3 premierships helps too.
Never won Charlie, but the best never really did back then, ask Matthews and Bartlett(yep the same peanut you all hate from SEN-but boy he could play.)
When the Dawks beat us in 83 the key play was knocking out Tim early on, they knew!
Tim played in his twilight years in 93 because Sheeds asked him to, a shadow of himself but he still managed to kick the sealer in the semi against Adelaide, which was the real grand final because either was going to thrash the Scum.
And I can remember him starting at 15. Can you imagine a 15 year old playing today? An absolute freak!
Anyway I’m rattling on but it beats reading another 150 pointless pontificating posts about the ■■■■■■■ Carlisle trade.

[ledzep]

Played at 15 I think.best bomber I’ve seen.watched since mid seventies.

[ledzep]

Madden then hird next.not sure if I’m in the right thread but ■■■■ happens

[GRR]

[Westing_Wuckman]

what a freak.

[Henry_s_Angry_Pills]

Simon Madden kicked 6 in a game at 16.
Freak generation, that’s for sure.

[frosty]

Great video. So many memories.

[Eastie_Boi1]

My 2c on an ideal best 22 make up (largely based on the Dawks but that’s what happens when they make 4 Grand Final’s in a row lol)

2 competent ruckman who can basically go 50/50 (having 1 freak like Goldstein or Lobbe would be better but we don’t have that)
2 lockdown key defenders, at least 1 with the strength/size to play on guys in the 200cm range
1 medium size defender who can play as a peel off/third man, play slightly taller or take a small (seriously, Hawks have 3 of these - Gibbo, Birchall and Stratton)
1 lockdown small defender
4 medium running defenders (at least 2 need to be able to run through the middle of the ground, or be midfielders who can play half back)
1 legitimate key forward
2 hit up forwards who are actually “tall” but can play “small” so everyone thinks they’re “medium”
3 crumbing forwards who can spend time in the middle (or quick midfielders who can go forward)
2 enduro freak midfielders who never start in the centre square
4 guys who are more or less full time midfielders

I don't get your arithmetic. I'd say Watson, Goddard, Heppell, Stanton, Colyer, Zerrett, Hooker, Hurley, Daniher, Hibberd and Baguley are locks. That leaves a lot spots for random new guys in decent form.

No one should ever be a lock.

[Henry_s_Angry_Pills]

How we best approach an ideal structure from what we actually have is more of a worry than what that ideal structure is.
2 big blokes forward, 3 back and one in the middle is not exactly revolutionary.

I just don’t think we can afford to pick a top heavy lineup - and in the past Worsfold has generally gone with 2 rucks & 3 big forwards. We were miles too slow this year and need to work on that next year.

If we’re set on having 2 rucks in the 22 we’re better off TBell starting as a forward, and Leunie or SMack (not both) ruck. I see Jobe or Langford slotting in forward as well.