Orlando nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured, police say, in worst mass shooting in US history

The trick is to deal with what can be dealt with and that is to engage actively in gun control. The GOP have blood on their hands every time there is a massacre in the US, for their intransigence on the gun issue.

Whether a person doing the killing is Islamic, Hispanic, Jewish, Irish, Navajo, Rasta, Christian etc is irrelevant. Take the guns away and the first issue is dealt with.

The next issue is the terror issue. Was it terrorism, a hate crime, a massacre or all 3 combined?

Might take some one to shoot a few US senators for something to happen. Who the fark needs to own an assault rifle. Beyond belief. Don't blame Obama, he's been trying to change the laws for years.

They did that remember? Gabrielle Giffords, shot in the head in an assasination attempt in 2011, when 6 other people died?

If mass killings involving politicians don’t do it, and mass killings where three dozen primary school kids die don’t do it, then sure as hell a shooting in a gay bar won’t do it. Though I’m sure there’ll be some more heavy-handed anti-terrorism surveillance laws rushed very quickly though in response to this.

It will have to be mass shootings of right wingers to get attitudes changed.

But the victims are always on the progressive side of US politics.


Unless they’re little kids.

Are you saying little kids are fascists???

My comment was WRT political shootings, but nevertheless kids are usually not out there espousing right wing ideologies.

Nah, my point was that there’s no reason to believe that the right wing attitude to gun control will change at all no matter who gets shot. If you’re not going to rethink after scores of little kids get mowed down, you’re not going to rethink at all.

What confuses me is the idea that it has to be one or the other. Let’s say I accept that radicalised Muslims are a danger to society, which I totally do.
How does it follow that disarming them is a bad idea?
I don’t understand that at all.

Might take some one to shoot a few US senators for something to happen. Who the fark needs to own an assault rifle. Beyond belief. Don't blame Obama, he's been trying to change the laws for years.

They did that remember? Gabrielle Giffords, shot in the head in an assasination attempt in 2011, when 6 other people died?

If mass killings involving politicians don’t do it, and mass killings where three dozen primary school kids die don’t do it, then sure as hell a shooting in a gay bar won’t do it. Though I’m sure there’ll be some more heavy-handed anti-terrorism surveillance laws rushed very quickly though in response to this.

It will have to be mass shootings of right wingers to get attitudes changed.

But the victims are always on the progressive side of US politics.


Unless they’re little kids.

Are you saying little kids are fascists???

My comment was WRT political shootings, but nevertheless kids are usually not out there espousing right wing ideologies.

Nah, my point was that there’s no reason to believe that the right wing attitude to gun control will change at all no matter who gets shot. If you’re not going to rethink after scores of little kids get mowed down, you’re not going to rethink at all.

Yep exactly right. If Sandy Hook wasn’t the tipping point, then there will literally never be such a tipping point.

The country had a look at a bunch of kindergarten kids getting murdered and decided that was a scenario they could collectively live with. Debate over.

Might take some one to shoot a few US senators for something to happen. Who the fark needs to own an assault rifle. Beyond belief. Don't blame Obama, he's been trying to change the laws for years.

They did that remember? Gabrielle Giffords, shot in the head in an assasination attempt in 2011, when 6 other people died?

If mass killings involving politicians don’t do it, and mass killings where three dozen primary school kids die don’t do it, then sure as hell a shooting in a gay bar won’t do it. Though I’m sure there’ll be some more heavy-handed anti-terrorism surveillance laws rushed very quickly though in response to this.

It will have to be mass shootings of right wingers to get attitudes changed.

But the victims are always on the progressive side of US politics.


Unless they’re little kids.

Are you saying little kids are fascists???

My comment was WRT political shootings, but nevertheless kids are usually not out there espousing right wing ideologies.

Nah, my point was that there’s no reason to believe that the right wing attitude to gun control will change at all no matter who gets shot. If you’re not going to rethink after scores of little kids get mowed down, you’re not going to rethink at all.

Yep exactly right. If Sandy Hook wasn’t the tipping point, then there will literally never be such a tipping point.

The country had a look at a bunch of kindergarten kids getting murdered and decided that was a scenario they could collectively live with. Debate over.

Then they wanted to arm the teachers. Great idea.
Might take some one to shoot a few US senators for something to happen. Who the fark needs to own an assault rifle. Beyond belief. Don't blame Obama, he's been trying to change the laws for years.

They did that remember? Gabrielle Giffords, shot in the head in an assasination attempt in 2011, when 6 other people died?

If mass killings involving politicians don’t do it, and mass killings where three dozen primary school kids die don’t do it, then sure as hell a shooting in a gay bar won’t do it. Though I’m sure there’ll be some more heavy-handed anti-terrorism surveillance laws rushed very quickly though in response to this.

It will have to be mass shootings of right wingers to get attitudes changed.

But the victims are always on the progressive side of US politics.


Unless they’re little kids.

Are you saying little kids are fascists???

My comment was WRT political shootings, but nevertheless kids are usually not out there espousing right wing ideologies.

Nah, my point was that there’s no reason to believe that the right wing attitude to gun control will change at all no matter who gets shot. If you’re not going to rethink after scores of little kids get mowed down, you’re not going to rethink at all.

OK, agreed.

How did this guy manage to smuggle in a relatively long firearm, another small handgun and plenty of rounds of ammo into a nightclub past the bouncers without nobody noticing is what I want to know?

He didn’t smuggle it in. He shot the security guards.

Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification SMJ. Missed that bit.
What confuses me is the idea that it has to be one or the other. Let's say I accept that radicalised Muslims are a danger to society, which I totally do. How does it follow that disarming them is a bad idea? I don't understand that at all.

Yeah but it is not even a one or two issue, there are multiple issues that need to be addressed.

The guy was known as a wife basher and had a police record - domestic violence
The guy was known as “strange” or a “little crazy” by many - mental health issues
The guy was being watched by the FBI and interviewed on 2 seperate occassions - radicalisation issues

So how did a guy who had violent tendencies, was being investigated by the FBI because people were reporting him and had a police record buy a high powered gun and ammunition?

This is about a failure in police procedures, a failure in FBI procedures, a failure in gun control and a failure to identify and help a guy being radicalised by a sick group called IS.

This is about all of that, not just gun control or Muslim (religious) control. It is not an either/or it is an “and”.

As for FOX, geez do they really think a guy with a knife could kill 50 people and injure 50 more? Seriously? Morons.

I cannot for the life of me understand how people think it is okay to give high powered assault rifles to people for “protection”. I can almost accept a simple handgun (almost but don’t agree with that really) for protection but not this other stuff available. Morons the lot of them.

Well said IT

From what I just heard on the World Today, 4 million US households own at least one AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.

Now being reported that the guy was actually a regular at the club (though in a ‘sit in the corner and drink grumpily’ kinda way rather than a ‘dance, party, and pick someone up for a night of sweet man-loving’ kinda way) and had a grindr profile.

Repressed gay bloke who’s been indoctrinated all his life with the idea that homosexuality is sinful + serious mental issues + violent tendencies + online religious loonies telling him to kill sinners and be forgiven his sins + easy access to high powered firearms. There ya go.

Fark me.
I sometimes wonder if I’ve gone soft on being tolerant of religion generally.
I’ve gone from being completely anti to, eh…believe what you like, just don’t hurt anyone.
Hearing that though…

There’s lots of insane people with murderous tenancies in the world. Lots and lots.

The cause might be misguided religious dogma, (as it seems in this case), it might be mental health, it might be upbringing, PTSD, or they might just be sadists for no known reason. These people exist, they have always existed, and its a major problem.

However its only in one first world country where those people have easy access to high powered weapons which are capable of killing lots of people very quickly.

The shooter was always going do something awful, no doubt. However without access to assault weapons, he might have only killed a gay man in a trist gone wrong or throttled his wife or whatever. A terrible tragedy, but a much much better result than killing 50 people.

There of course needs to be a focus on mental health prevention but you need to ban assault weapons for those who have (and always will) slip through the cracks.

How about not just shooting people?

How about not just shooting people?
pfft! How will that make you safe?
Yep. Both.

And for those who support the ‘Islam is the problem’ point of view, why aren’t they all shooting the place up? It’s in the Quran after all. Isn’t it? Those people you interact with every day. They should be trying to kill you. But they don’t. So what are they, crap at it?

4 Israeli’s were shot in a Tel Aviv restaurant and many more injured just last week, but no, you’re right, this is the first incident of its kind. I’m completely and utterly shocked this happened.


I would have thought that issue has more to do with one section of the community treating the other as sub-human rather than solely as a religious conflict but casting ‘them’ as terrorists has worked a treat since 2001 for the Israelis so no need to stop now.
Yep. Both.

And for those who support the ‘Islam is the problem’ point of view, why aren’t they all shooting the place up? It’s in the Quran after all. Isn’t it? Those people you interact with every day. They should be trying to kill you. But they don’t. So what are they, crap at it?

4 Israeli’s were shot in a Tel Aviv restaurant and many more injured just last week, but no, you’re right, this is the first incident of its kind. I’m completely and utterly shocked this happened.


I would have thought that issue has more to do with one section of the community treating the other as sub-human rather than solely as a religious conflict but casting ‘them’ as terrorists has worked a treat since 2001 for the Israelis so no need to stop now.

Way too simplistic and not really based on reality. I suggest you meander over to Israel/Palestine and see what is really going on, not just an armchair/media report approach to your understanding.

Israel-Palestine conflict is in no way analogous or comparable.

Israel-Palestine conflict is in no way analogous or comparable.

agree