Outsourcing the "High Performance" position

Football Discussion Dustin Fletcher Hangar
23


While I do agree with most of that Fog, I would still be pretty nervous if I was head of fitness at any other club this year
As well most sports, clubs will follow the trends of whoever is at the top so if Port win the easiest one to replicate will be to pinch a bloke from the US college system or European soccer
Norf also have Steve Saunders in their medical department which helps them. Was actually going to throw in that they're arguably the second best running side but struggle more against big bodied sides and probably don't have as much player weaponry as Port do
And Matt - difference is they have built a reputation as the best running side over 2 years whereas for Robinson it last about 6 weeks lol


Other than consistently get over-run and cough up winning leads late in matches, what exactly is it that Norf have done that you would like us to replicate?
And what's a Steve Saunders?
The entire Roos list has had less soft tissue injuries over the last 4 years than Courtney Dempsey alone
THAT is what I want us to replicate
And fwiw while I loved Robinson's philosophy that bigger is better, an non-emotional response is that he was at least 2 years behind the times
24

When your skills are average to poor, like ours are sometimes, you look slow and unable to keep up. This has been the case over the past few years.

I also think our tackling ability has been substandard over the years. Other teams always look stronger than us and burst away leaving us in their wake.

25

Port were overrun by North Melbourne.
Yes they are fitter, but I attribute their success more to Ken Hinkley and the fact they were a sleeping giant just waiting to be awoken.
Since Ken has arrived, the only player they've really added to their list is Polec.
Monfries was there when he arrived and Wines was drafted by their recruiting staff.
Hinkley just gave them a gameplan that worked and belief they could carry it out. Yes they are fit, but that's just one step of the process that I don't think is a huge factor in their resurgence.

Burgess has a great reputation, however I agree with Fog.
It's also only round 10 and they have had a good run with injuries.
26

The number of last quarters that Port have won this season and last suggests that their fitness is a major factor.

27

Add this to the list of areas the club needs to get better at.

28

hire more white people and take lots of drugs. lots. 

 

 

 

 

if you're a journo reading this, don't quote me as i'm being a sarcastic prick.

29

Mexico would be a good off season trip
Lots of steroids, lack of WADA presence, harsh conditions to build character

High chance of being shot

I have visions of Melksham's severed head on a Tortoise.
30

Michael Ferrari is free… To soon?

On a more serious note I am not against it.

I would think going over to the premier league and poaching one of their best would be an option. We need someone who understands endurance.

You would have to be very carful as allot of overseas league pay lip service to the WADA code etc.

The problem would always be the $, we can’t compete with overseas.

31

I can you as fact that at the start of the year Essendon players did the ‘beep’ test which measures endurance. We had 1 player reach level 16. Port had 10!! That in itself explains slit. I can assure you Essendon is not fit enough and is unable to run both ways for 120 minutes in games which is how a result gap like this impacts our ability to win games. In the pre season Essendon went to altitude, Power to train in the heat. Vastly different approaches. It looks like the Power got it right and their turnaround over the last 2 years can be largely explained by their running capacity in terms of attack and ability to defend fir linger in games. BTW, Mobfries, Crameri and Jacobs would help us kick more goals. We haven’t been a great club over the last 10 years have we…

32

Not sure why anyone is comparing Burgess to Robinson.  Weapon was a strength guy not endurance.  I believe the reports from Geelong were that he was only in charge of their weights programe not overall fittness.  We made the decission to add strength & size to our players & apart from the whole sorry saga, the results we saw were massive soft tissue injuries. 

33

I can you as fact that at the start of the year Essendon players did the 'beep' test which measures endurance. We had 1 player reach level 16. Port had 10!! That in itself explains slit. I can assure you Essendon is not fit enough and is unable to run both ways for 120 minutes in games which is how a result gap like this impacts our ability to win games. In the pre season Essendon went to altitude, Power to train in the heat. Vastly different approaches. It looks like the Power got it right and their turnaround over the last 2 years can be largely explained by their running capacity in terms of attack and ability to defend fir linger in games. BTW, Mobfries, Crameri and Jacobs would help us kick more goals. We haven't been a great club over the last 10 years have we..


That's a pretty damming fact, 1 vs. 10 over a 16 beep.
I would like to know whether that's a recruiting issue or purely program based.
Is ours not focused enough on endurance?
It will be interesting to see if our bigger bodies wear better over the season?
Would also be interesting to see monfries beep results at Essendon and then port.
34

 

I can you as fact that at the start of the year Essendon players did the 'beep' test which measures endurance. We had 1 player reach level 16. Port had 10!! That in itself explains slit. I can assure you Essendon is not fit enough and is unable to run both ways for 120 minutes in games which is how a result gap like this impacts our ability to win games. In the pre season Essendon went to altitude, Power to train in the heat. Vastly different approaches. It looks like the Power got it right and their turnaround over the last 2 years can be largely explained by their running capacity in terms of attack and ability to defend fir linger in games. BTW, Mobfries, Crameri and Jacobs would help us kick more goals. We haven't been a great club over the last 10 years have we..


That's a pretty damming fact, 1 vs. 10 over a 16 beep.
I would like to know whether that's a recruiting issue or purely program based.
Is ours not focused enough on endurance?
It will be interesting to see if our bigger bodies wear better over the season?
Would also be interesting to see monfries beep results at Essendon and then port.

 

Easy to get players with elite endurance/fitness when you keep getting top 10 draft picks like Port did for a few years as they were a complete basket case for a while.

 

Hamish Hartlett had just as many hammies as Dempsey in his first few seasons but has come good with them at the same time as absolute young guns like Wines & Wingard were recruited.  We haven't been afforded that luxury in the draft.

 

2013 - first pick was Zach Merrett ~ pick #26 and we only got that pick because Crameri left.  Young Merrett looks a very good player in the making. He already looks a lot better than a mid 20's pick.

2012 - Joe Daniher taken at Pick #10 under F/S.  Near universal agreement among recruiters that he was a Top #1- #3 pick. Ashby was our next pick at #34.  Good young player in the making but not elite like Wines who was taken at pick #7.

2011 - Our first pick was #19 and we took Elliot Kavanagh.  Has had his share of injuries and the jury is still out on whether he will make it (would love to see him make it as an inside mid). We did get Jackson Merrett at pick #31 and that looks a bargain for us. He is better than that. Port got Wingard at pick #6.

 

You can't get those young mid/speedy/gun players unless you have picks in the Top #10 and we have had only one such pick in the last 3 years and took the best KP player in the country with it.

 

Don't blame our recruiters, I think they've done an outstanding job with hand they've been dealt.  Topping up our FA with Goddard & Chapman and also picking a string of players either late in the draft/pre-season draft/rookies that end up being highly sort after by other clubs that then netted us draft picks way in excess of what we used to draft those players e.g. Jenkins, Crameri. The likes of Hooker, Bellchambers, Hibberd, Baguley would easily get games in nearly every other team in the comp including most of the Top 8 (certainly the first 3).  That means our player development has been pretty good too.

 

Our biggest issue, #1 problem, has been a continuing run of injuries that prevents us from rarely having our best 22, or something like it, on the park week in, week out.  It's where North Melbourne & PA have left us way behind - hard to believe North are as ordinary as they are when they've had the best run with injury, year in, year out, for years.  

 

It is in injury prevention & rehabilitation that we need to investigate, analyse & implement plans - not our recruiting or player development where I think we have punched above our weight.  Injury prevention & rehab includes fitness program and facilities - the latter of which we have rectified and we have gone from the worst to the best facilities in the comp.  This leaves the program itself.  I'll know we 're getting better in this area when we finish a season with a near full complement of players & full of run rather than a massive long injury list & stuffed players which has happened under multiple senior & fitness coaches for more than a decade.

35

What shts me, is that it hasn’t mattered if we’ve had Sheedy, Knights, Hird or Thompson. Or Quinn, Cormack, weapon, corcoron or whoever. Or if we train at Windy Hill, or the league best facility. Or if we turn the list over massively.

We’re still sht, we’re still unfit and we still get too many injuries.

36

I can you as fact that at the start of the year Essendon players did the 'beep' test which measures endurance. We had 1 player reach level 16. Port had 10!! That in itself explains slit. I can assure you Essendon is not fit enough and is unable to run both ways for 120 minutes in games which is how a result gap like this impacts our ability to win games. In the pre season Essendon went to altitude, Power to train in the heat. Vastly different approaches. It looks like the Power got it right and their turnaround over the last 2 years can be largely explained by their running capacity in terms of attack and ability to defend fir linger in games. BTW, Mobfries, Crameri and Jacobs would help us kick more goals. We haven't been a great club over the last 10 years have we..

That's a pretty damming fact, 1 vs. 10 over a 16 beep.
I would like to know whether that's a recruiting issue or purely program based.
Is ours not focused enough on endurance?
It will be interesting to see if our bigger bodies wear better over the season?
Would also be interesting to see monfries beep results at Essendon and then port.
Apparently having 3 regimes in recent years hasn't helped.. It was pointed to me Hurley and Westoff are great examples if the difference. Hurley has been quite good in 2014 so this is not a reflection of his year to date. He goes hard when he is in the play but he isn't fit enough to go again and again. He will stand with hands on hips.. Westoff keeps going.. He presents as a target in the forward line then he rubs both ways to ensure he can assist in their team defence. Thus is a good example. Ports prolonged attack and defensive aspect thus year us remarkable. There have been quite a few opposition teams venture across to Adelaide in recent weeks to watch the Power train. How are do they train? What are they doing differently. Port are considered a real challenger thus year with their superior fitness giving them an advantage. Port have shown that a bold vision and strategy on and off field can turn a club around, despite the latent talent that clearly existed.
37

 

 

While I do agree with most of that Fog, I would still be pretty nervous if I was head of fitness at any other club this year
As well most sports, clubs will follow the trends of whoever is at the top so if Port win the easiest one to replicate will be to pinch a bloke from the US college system or European soccer
Norf also have Steve Saunders in their medical department which helps them. Was actually going to throw in that they're arguably the second best running side but struggle more against big bodied sides and probably don't have as much player weaponry as Port do
And Matt - difference is they have built a reputation as the best running side over 2 years whereas for Robinson it last about 6 weeks lol


Other than consistently get over-run and cough up winning leads late in matches, what exactly is it that Norf have done that you would like us to replicate?
And what's a Steve Saunders?
The entire Roos list has had less soft tissue injuries over the last 4 years than Courtney Dempsey alone
THAT is what I want us to replicate
And fwiw while I loved Robinson's philosophy that bigger is better, an non-emotional response is that he was at least 2 years behind the times

 

They haven't been close to the pace, though. Not getting injured is great, but surely the fittest team is going to be one of the ~9 sides who've won a final over that period?

 

 

Not Norf or Melbourne or Richmond or any of the other sides who - like us - have won exactly ■■■■ all.

38

 

 

I can you as fact that at the start of the year Essendon players did the 'beep' test which measures endurance. We had 1 player reach level 16. Port had 10!! That in itself explains slit. I can assure you Essendon is not fit enough and is unable to run both ways for 120 minutes in games which is how a result gap like this impacts our ability to win games. In the pre season Essendon went to altitude, Power to train in the heat. Vastly different approaches. It looks like the Power got it right and their turnaround over the last 2 years can be largely explained by their running capacity in terms of attack and ability to defend fir linger in games. BTW, Mobfries, Crameri and Jacobs would help us kick more goals. We haven't been a great club over the last 10 years have we..

That's a pretty damming fact, 1 vs. 10 over a 16 beep.
I would like to know whether that's a recruiting issue or purely program based.
Is ours not focused enough on endurance?
It will be interesting to see if our bigger bodies wear better over the season?
Would also be interesting to see monfries beep results at Essendon and then port.
Apparently having 3 regimes in recent years hasn't helped.. It was pointed to me Hurley and Westoff are great examples if the difference. Hurley has been quite good in 2014 so this is not a reflection of his year to date. He goes hard when he is in the play but he isn't fit enough to go again and again. He will stand with hands on hips.. Westoff keeps going.. He presents as a target in the forward line then he rubs both ways to ensure he can assist in their team defence. Thus is a good example. Ports prolonged attack and defensive aspect thus year us remarkable. There have been quite a few opposition teams venture across to Adelaide in recent weeks to watch the Power train. How are do they train? What are they doing differently. Port are considered a real challenger thus year with their superior fitness giving them an advantage. Port have shown that a bold vision and strategy on and off field can turn a club around, despite the latent talent that clearly existed.

 

Completely different builds, sizes & different types of athlete - but you do actually realise Hurley's getting more of the footy than Westhoff?

 

 

 

Hurley's a thick, strong build - much bigger through the lower body & abdomen - Westhoff a tall, rangy build (more akin to Carlisle's body). Yet Hurley's still finding more of it, offering plenty of run and rebound and also having to be accountable to some of the better forwards around. Just about the worst example you could possibly have given IMHO.

39

Not sure why anyone is comparing Burgess to Robinson.  Weapon was a strength guy not endurance.  I believe the reports from Geelong were that he was only in charge of their weights programe not overall fittness.  We made the decission to add strength & size to our players & apart from the whole sorry saga, the results we saw were massive soft tissue injuries. 

All that's true - but go back 2-3 years, EB was starting similar fapping threads over getting Robinson.

 

 

"Get staffer X off leading club Y = insta-flag" always get a few excited.

40

The team is CLEARLY not aerobically fit enough to compete. How they are travelling in the back half of the year will be very interesting to see.

41

What sh*ts me, is that it hasn't mattered if we've had Sheedy, Knights, Hird or Thompson. Or Quinn, Cormack, weapon, corcoron or whoever. Or if we train at Windy Hill, or the league best facility. Or if we turn the list over massively.
We're still sh*t, we're still unfit and we still get too many injuries.

I don't think the benefits of the new facility will be evident after half a season, but other than that completely agree. 

 

Edit: Also, teaching our list how not to turn it over is infinitely more important that turning over the list, as the Port example proves. Still reckon this latter is as much psychological than anything. 

42

Our game plan is dodgy, which places a spotlight on our fitness. Lots of lighter bodies don’t help either, I would love to see our young blokes in 2-3 years time.

Agree that our endurance and stamina don’t look nearly good enough.

The HPC must make a difference.