Muslims don't need terrorist to ruin the brand. It's application at state level does enough of hat. Just take an average day being a blogger in Saudi Arabia or a woman caught with a non-related man in her house in Aceh, Indonesia.
Are numbers in those countries dropping? Sure to many westerners repeated examples of how outdated the religion is, further
ensures we would never consider becoming muslim but my question is, does it have the same effect in those countries? Are more Muslims leaving the religion, are more becoming radicalised or is it really have no effect?
In many countries they’re not allowed to ‘drop’. Conversion to another religion, apostasy or becoming an atheist results in imprisonment or death. In Saudi Arabia for instance the govt recently labelled atheism a terrorist offence, prohibiting “calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based.” How can you officially leave Islam under that?
What tends to happen if a Muslim has lapsed, and no longer believes in god, they can only get away with it as long as they don’t state it publicly. ‘Dont ask dont tell’ so to speak. There are some studies that suggest, that this silent group is on the rise , mainly due to the internet and science, reason and logic replacing old creation myths, but’s it’s hard to quantify.
In a speech delivered at Al-Azhar on December 28, Egyptian President Abd Al-Fattah Al-Sisi called to combat extremist ideology and said: “We need to revolutionize our religion.” Calling for “religious discourse that is in keeping with its times,” Al-Sisi warned that “the Islamic nation is being torn apart and destroyed” by extremism.
Following are excerpts:
Abd Al-Fattah Al-Sisi: We spoke earlier about the importance of the religious discourse, and I would like to reiterate that we are not doing enough with regard to true religious discourse. The problem has never been with our faith. Perhaps the problem lies in ideology, and this ideology is sanctified among us. I am talking about religious discourse that is in keeping with its times.
[…]
I am adressing the religious scholars and clerics. We must take a long, hard look at the current situation. I have talked about this several times in the past. We must take a long, hard look at the situation we are in. It is inconceivable that the ideology we sanctify should make our entire nation a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction all over the world. It is inconceivable that this ideology… I am referring not to “religion,” but to “ideology” – the body of ideas and texts that we have sanctified in the course of centuries, to the point that challenging them has become very difficult.
It has reached the point that [this ideology] is hostile to the entire world. Is it conceivable that 1.6 billion [Muslims] would kill the world’s population of seven billion, so that they could live [on their own]? This is inconceivable. I say these things here, at Al-Azhar, before religious clerics and scholars. May Allah bear witness on Judgment Day to the truth of your intentions, regarding what I say to you today. You cannot see things clearly when you are locked [in this ideology]. You must emerge from it and look from outside, in order to get closer to a truly enlightened ideology. You must oppose it with resolve. Let me say it again: We need to revolutionize our religion.
Honorable Imam [the Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar], you bear responsibility before Allah. The world in its entirety awaits your words, because the Islamic nation is being torn apart, destroyed, and is heading to perdition. We ourselves are bringing it to perdition.
A reply to: @You Shall Be Smoten regarding QuoteLink
If an Essendon fan punched an opposition fan outside a game, we can say they don't represent us, but we can't say they are not an Essendon fan.
does that help?
Do you guys really think that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot?
Do you really think that everyone who disagrees with them isn't an idiot?
Well, it may be obvious, but I’ll point it out anyway. Defending so-called ‘free speech’ by ridiculing/intimidating or belittling those you disagree with is not exactly a self-supporting method of argument.
So free speech only works one way?
Some say an insult is a good way to begin and end the rebuttal of an argument. It doesnt win friends, may not influence people, but it sure feels good.
In a speech delivered at Al-Azhar on Dog ecember 28, Egyptian President Abd Al-Fattah Al-Sisi called to combat extremist ideology and said: “We need to revolutionize our religion.” Calling for “religious discourse that is in keeping with its times,” Al-Sisi warned that “the Islamic nation is being torn apart and destroyed” by extremism.
Following are excerpts:
Abd Al-Fattah Al-Sisi: We spoke earlier about the importance of the religious discourse, and I would like to reiterate that we are not doing enough with regard to true religious discourse. The problem has never been with our faith. Perhaps the problem lies in ideology, and this ideology is sanctified among us. I am talking about religious discourse that is in keeping with its times.
[…]
I am adressing the religious scholars and clerics. We must take a long, hard look at the current situation. I have talked about this several times in the past. We must take a long, hard look at the situation we are in. It is inconceivable that the ideology we sanctify should make our entire nation a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction all over the world. It is inconceivable that this ideology… I am referring not to “religion,” but to “ideology” – the body of ideas and texts that we have sanctified in the course of centuries, to the point that challenging them has become very difficult.
It has reached the point that [this ideology] is hostile to the entire world. Is it conceivable that 1.6 billion [Muslims] would kill the world’s population of seven billion, so that they could live [on their own]? This is inconceivable. I say these things here, at Al-Azhar, before religious clerics and scholars. May Allah bear witness on Judgment Day to the truth of your intentions, regarding what I say to you today. You cannot see things clearly when you are locked [in this ideology]. You must emerge from it and look from outside, in order to get closer to a truly enlightened ideology. You must oppose it with resolve. Let me say it again: We need to revolutionize our religion.
Honorable Imam [the Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar], you bear responsibility before Allah. The world in its entirety awaits your words, because the Islamic nation is being torn apart, destroyed, and is heading to perdition. We ourselves are bringing it to perdition.
Muslims don't need terrorist to ruin the brand. It's application at state level does enough of hat. Just take an average day being a blogger in Saudi Arabia or a woman caught with a non-related man in her house in Aceh, Indonesia.
Are numbers in those countries dropping? Sure to many westerners repeated examples of how outdated the religion is, further
ensures we would never consider becoming muslim but my question is, does it have the same effect in those countries? Are more Muslims leaving the religion, are more becoming radicalised or is it really have no effect?
That’s one of the major problems.
You don’t just ‘leave’ Islam. Well you can, but it’s a bigger call than leaving most religions.
US president Barack Obama has called a summit of American allies to discuss the best ways to stop violent extremism.
In a statement announcing the summit, the White House cited recent attacks in Sydney, Ottawa and Paris as providing the impetus.
The summit would aim to highlight American and international efforts to prevent violent extremists and supporters from radicalising, recruiting or inspiring individuals or groups to carry out further attacks.
The US could start by not using drones to bomb civilians.
Muslims don't need terrorist to ruin the brand. It's application at state level does enough of hat. Just take an average day being a blogger in Saudi Arabia or a woman caught with a non-related man in her house in Aceh, Indonesia.
Are numbers in those countries dropping? Sure to many westerners repeated examples of how outdated the religion is, further
ensures we would never consider becoming muslim but my question is, does it have the same effect in those countries? Are more Muslims leaving the religion, are more becoming radicalised or is it really have no effect?
Muslims numbers are often inflated because of policies of Governments and social mores. There are few countries where ISLAM has nearly 100% coverage which is encouraged by the Governments of these countries and in some nations you must have some type of religion - These countries have ID cards and you must list your religion - of course not all Muslims closely follow their religion - Even though Muslims seem to visit Mosques in greater numbers then people from other religions, this is often going through the motions - And many Muslims when they visit non-muslim countries suddenly forget their religion.
The bigger problem is the fracturing of the religion between Sunni’s and Shia’s.Musilms tend to kill more Muslims, but the fracturing between the groups causes collateral damage to non-Muslims. Solve this problem ( good luck ) and you will reduce violence practised by Muslims against the west.
Muslims don't need terrorist to ruin the brand. It's application at state level does enough of hat. Just take an average day being a blogger in Saudi Arabia or a woman caught with a non-related man in her house in Aceh, Indonesia.
Are numbers in those countries dropping? Sure to many westerners repeated examples of how outdated the religion is, further
ensures we would never consider becoming muslim but my question is, does it have the same effect in those countries? Are more Muslims leaving the religion, are more becoming radicalised or is it really have no effect?
That’s one of the major problems.
You don’t just ‘leave’ Islam. Well you can, but it’s a bigger call than leaving most religions.
Many Muslims go through the motions in supporting their religion - They are not forced to pray.
One thing I’ll say about the French is that they don’t back down from their beliefs. Life will continue as normal and if people’s feelings are hurt so be it. Keep up the good work.
A reply to: @You Shall Be Smoten regarding QuoteLink
If an Essendon fan punched an opposition fan outside a game, we can say they don't represent us, but we can't say they are not an Essendon fan.
does that help?
Do you guys really think that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot?
Do you really think that everyone who disagrees with them isn't an idiot?
Well, it may be obvious, but I’ll point it out anyway. Defending so-called ‘free speech’ by ridiculing/intimidating or belittling those you disagree with is not exactly a self-supporting method of argument.
So free speech only works one way?
Some say an insult is a good way to begin and end the rebuttal of an argument. It doesnt win friends, may not influence people, but it sure feels good.
Muslims don't need terrorist to ruin the brand. It's application at state level does enough of hat. Just take an average day being a blogger in Saudi Arabia or a woman caught with a non-related man in her house in Aceh, Indonesia.
Are numbers in those countries dropping? Sure to many westerners repeated examples of how outdated the religion is, further
ensures we would never consider becoming muslim but my question is, does it have the same effect in those countries? Are more Muslims leaving the religion, are more becoming radicalised or is it really have no effect?
The best incubator for religious adherence is lots of kids. Hence the growth of muslim populations everywhere. Same goes for Christianity.
Its almost nearly all over. The terrorists have won as far as I’m concerned. The Hebdo attack will ensure that nobody will dare to be critical of Islam going forward.
Has anyone from our ‘fearless’ media republished those cartoons that were responsible?
I would have thought that was newsworthy and in context.
Of course they haven’t.
The Paris turnout means nothing and achieves little (if anything). The meek West will become even meeker with their desire to appease as they know now there are real life consequences.
Its almost nearly all over. The terrorists have won as far as I'm concerned. The Hebdo attack will ensure that nobody will dare to be critical of Islam going forward.
Has anyone from our 'fearless' media republished those cartoons that were responsible?
I would have thought that was newsworthy and in context.
Of course they haven’t.
The Paris turnout means nothing and achieves little (if anything). The meek West will become even meeker with their desire to appease as they know now there are real life consequences.
Sword 1
Pen 0
Have to agree. The cartoons should have been plastered all over every newspaper, TV & network in the world as a sign of how pathetic the attack was. “Killed for this” should have been the catchcry but as you say the media en-masse have been weak as ■■■■.
A reply to: @You Shall Be Smoten regarding QuoteLink
If an Essendon fan punched an opposition fan outside a game, we can say they don't represent us, but we can't say they are not an Essendon fan.
does that help?
Do you guys really think that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot?
Do you really think that everyone who disagrees with them isn't an idiot?
Well, it may be obvious, but I’ll point it out anyway. Defending so-called ‘free speech’ by ridiculing/intimidating or belittling those you disagree with is not exactly a self-supporting method of argument.
Its almost nearly all over. The terrorists have won as far as I'm concerned. The Hebdo attack will ensure that nobody will dare to be critical of Islam going forward.
Has anyone from our 'fearless' media republished those cartoons that were responsible?
I would have thought that was newsworthy and in context.
Of course they haven’t.
The Paris turnout means nothing and achieves little (if anything). The meek West will become even meeker with their desire to appease as they know now there are real life consequences.
Sword 1
Pen 0
They are keen to publish when it might hurt someone else though. Agree with you DT.
Its almost nearly all over. The terrorists have won as far as I'm concerned. The Hebdo attack will ensure that nobody will dare to be critical of Islam going forward.
Has anyone from our 'fearless' media republished those cartoons that were responsible?
I would have thought that was newsworthy and in context.
Of course they haven’t.
The Paris turnout means nothing and achieves little (if anything). The meek West will become even meeker with their desire to appease as they know now there are real life consequences.
Sword 1
Pen 0
Have to agree. The cartoons should have been plastered all over every newspaper, TV & network in the world as a sign of how pathetic the attack was. “Killed for this” should have been the catchcry but as you say the media en-masse have been weak as ■■■■.
If the cartoons were not against our own laws, then maybe they would have.
Might want to consider that a large part of these hysterically amusing cartoons are obscene, and not for children to witness, so maybe keep them to adult magazines.
