I think you're taking a pretty simplistic view of the Crameri and Ryder situations to be honest Ants. Whether you want to admit it or not PR was a big part of why we didn't fight harder on those two, Ryder in particular. There is no way in hell if we took Ryder to court (or even threatened to) we didn't come off as the bad guy and the club really didn't need anymore of that. I also doubt that decision was anything to do with Dodoro... he gets the directive from higher up and then he does the best he can with the hand he was dealt.
Well, I've tried to be clear that I don't know whose decision it was - and if it wasn't Dodoro I may be tarring him unfairly. But I do think it was the wrong decision. Yes, some bad press would have hurt us - but would we even recognise the difference now (or much then)? The press was uniformly bad. We should have held the line like Gold Coast and GWS have done.
And I think making the stand once in 2013 would have meant we wouldnât have suffered it as bad in 2014 and 2015 as if weâd been making the stand from scratch.
Yea but lets take a look at what would happen if ANY club took a player to court or refused to tradeâŚ
Negative publicity and the difficult to deal with line.
Risk of losing said court case
Player could refuse to play at all
This is happening with GWS at the moment and Cam McCarthy. I know Cam is suffering mentally and taken indefinite leave, but GWS copped some slack too from this for refusing to trade him at all last year. Multiply this 10 folds in publicity because of the substance issues⌠A repeat of what happened in the next draft could really impact their club and the possibility of getting any trades done easily.
What happens out of the McCarthy situation is obviously going to be a big pointer as to whether I'm full of it, or on the money, or somewhere in between. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
On a side note, I think 6 years from now people will look back and say pick #5 was cheap for Carlisle.
While I agree that talent wise Carlise has the potential to become a top player, I think its fair to say all things considered it was the best trade the club has done since the 90âs. Parish has just as much potential to be a star for us & Iâd argue heâs far less likely to become an embarrassing flop who costs the club on & off field.
I think you're taking a pretty simplistic view of the Crameri and Ryder situations to be honest Ants. Whether you want to admit it or not PR was a big part of why we didn't fight harder on those two, Ryder in particular. There is no way in hell if we took Ryder to court (or even threatened to) we didn't come off as the bad guy and the club really didn't need anymore of that. I also doubt that decision was anything to do with Dodoro... he gets the directive from higher up and then he does the best he can with the hand he was dealt.
Well, I've tried to be clear that I don't know whose decision it was - and if it wasn't Dodoro I may be tarring him unfairly. But I do think it was the wrong decision. Yes, some bad press would have hurt us - but would we even recognise the difference now (or much then)? The press was uniformly bad. We should have held the line like Gold Coast and GWS have done.
And I think making the stand once in 2013 would have meant we wouldnât have suffered it as bad in 2014 and 2015 as if weâd been making the stand from scratch.
Yea but lets take a look at what would happen if ANY club took a player to court or refused to tradeâŚ
Negative publicity and the difficult to deal with line.
Risk of losing said court case
Player could refuse to play at all
This is happening with GWS at the moment and Cam McCarthy. I know Cam is suffering mentally and taken indefinite leave, but GWS copped some slack too from this for refusing to trade him at all last year. Multiply this 10 folds in publicity because of the substance issues⌠A repeat of what happened in the next draft could really impact their club and the possibility of getting any trades done easily.
What happens out of the McCarthy situation is obviously going to be a big pointer as to whether I'm full of it, or on the money, or somewhere in between. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
On a side note, I think 6 years from now people will look back and say pick #5 was cheap for Carlisle.
While I agree that talent wise Carlise has the potential to become a top player, I think its fair to say all things considered it was the best trade the club has done since the 90âs. Parish has just as much potential to be a star for us & Iâd argue heâs far less likely to become an embarrassing flop who costs the club on & off field.
I agree with you Jbomber, but isnât it Francis we should be comparing him too, not Parish?
The Carlisle pick was our second one
I think you're taking a pretty simplistic view of the Crameri and Ryder situations to be honest Ants. Whether you want to admit it or not PR was a big part of why we didn't fight harder on those two, Ryder in particular. There is no way in hell if we took Ryder to court (or even threatened to) we didn't come off as the bad guy and the club really didn't need anymore of that. I also doubt that decision was anything to do with Dodoro... he gets the directive from higher up and then he does the best he can with the hand he was dealt.
Well, I've tried to be clear that I don't know whose decision it was - and if it wasn't Dodoro I may be tarring him unfairly. But I do think it was the wrong decision. Yes, some bad press would have hurt us - but would we even recognise the difference now (or much then)? The press was uniformly bad. We should have held the line like Gold Coast and GWS have done.
And I think making the stand once in 2013 would have meant we wouldnât have suffered it as bad in 2014 and 2015 as if weâd been making the stand from scratch.
Yea but lets take a look at what would happen if ANY club took a player to court or refused to tradeâŚ
Negative publicity and the difficult to deal with line.
Risk of losing said court case
Player could refuse to play at all
This is happening with GWS at the moment and Cam McCarthy. I know Cam is suffering mentally and taken indefinite leave, but GWS copped some slack too from this for refusing to trade him at all last year. Multiply this 10 folds in publicity because of the substance issues⌠A repeat of what happened in the next draft could really impact their club and the possibility of getting any trades done easily.
What happens out of the McCarthy situation is obviously going to be a big pointer as to whether I'm full of it, or on the money, or somewhere in between. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
On a side note, I think 6 years from now people will look back and say pick #5 was cheap for Carlisle.
While I agree that talent wise Carlise has the potential to become a top player, I think its fair to say all things considered it was the best trade the club has done since the 90âs. Parish has just as much potential to be a star for us & Iâd argue heâs far less likely to become an embarrassing flop who costs the club on & off field.
I agree with you Jbomber, but isnât it Francis we should be comparing him too, not Parish?
The Carlisle pick was our second one
Right you are (bloody academy picks mess everything up). On seconds thoughts - worst trade ever! lol
Thought the Carlisle trade was fair value. At the moment it looks like we won, but I doubt itâs ever going to look like we lost, no matter what Carlisle does with his career.
How can anyone think this guy had control over the Crameri / Ryder deals? On the Ryder deal, court proceedings were threatened⌠Do you really think the recruiting / list manager decides when Essendon as a football club enter legal battles? And on the Crameri deal it came out that before the ASADA stuff Essendon and the Bulldogs list management agreed to swap first round picks in the deal (Bontempelli). That would have been decent business in my opinion. So in what way does he take blame there. Seriously, jog on Ants.
Considering carlisle was out of contract and didnât want to be at the club and Saints were never going to give up pick 5 until Hawthorn came in, Iâd say getting pick 5 was a steal. What else could we have gotten?
Considering carlisle was out of contract and didn't want to be at the club and Saints were never going to give up pick 5 until Hawthorn came in, I'd say getting pick 5 was a steal. What else could we have gotten?
Well, I'd have said the Hawthorn deal was better. And the logical result would have been pick #5 and the Saints' 3rd round pick. Compared to what we did get that would have had us: 2 extra 3rd round picks, our 2nd round pick staying where it was, and not taking on Bird (which mean's another pick for a youth on our list plus not taking on Bird's salary cap).
Considering carlisle was out of contract and didn't want to be at the club and Saints were never going to give up pick 5 until Hawthorn came in, I'd say getting pick 5 was a steal. What else could we have gotten?
Well, I'd have said the Hawthorn deal was better. And the logical result would have been pick #5 and the Saints' 3rd round pick. Compared to what we did get that would have had us: 2 extra 3rd round picks, our 2nd round pick staying where it was, and not taking on Bird (which mean's another pick for a youth on our list plus not taking on Bird's salary cap).
Considering carlisle was out of contract and didn't want to be at the club and Saints were never going to give up pick 5 until Hawthorn came in, I'd say getting pick 5 was a steal. What else could we have gotten?
Well, I'd have said the Hawthorn deal was better. And the logical result would have been pick #5 and the Saints' 3rd round pick. Compared to what we did get that would have had us: 2 extra 3rd round picks, our 2nd round pick staying where it was, and not taking on Bird (which mean's another pick for a youth on our list plus not taking on Bird's salary cap).
Fantasy world again - How do you force an uncontracted player to move to a club because that club is offering better draft picks.
Considering carlisle was out of contract and didn't want to be at the club and Saints were never going to give up pick 5 until Hawthorn came in, I'd say getting pick 5 was a steal. What else could we have gotten?
Well, I'd have said the Hawthorn deal was better. And the logical result would have been pick #5 and the Saints' 3rd round pick. Compared to what we did get that would have had us: 2 extra 3rd round picks, our 2nd round pick staying where it was, and not taking on Bird (which mean's another pick for a youth on our list plus not taking on Bird's salary cap).
Considering carlisle was out of contract and didn't want to be at the club and Saints were never going to give up pick 5 until Hawthorn came in, I'd say getting pick 5 was a steal. What else could we have gotten?
Well, I'd have said the Hawthorn deal was better. And the logical result would have been pick #5 and the Saints' 3rd round pick. Compared to what we did get that would have had us: 2 extra 3rd round picks, our 2nd round pick staying where it was, and not taking on Bird (which mean's another pick for a youth on our list plus not taking on Bird's salary cap).
So 2 x 3rd round picks > pick #5?
Huh? How did you get that? I said pick #5 AND a third round pick was what we should have got from the Saints. The difference between that and what we got was 2 x 3rd round picks plus the fringe benefits.
This guy has the hardest job in the afl at the moment. There is a huge amount of politics and threats playing out. from what I have been told the club are not allowed to talk directly to Hurley and Hibberd as instructed by their dog manager. Trying to get the 12 players back next year which the board have committed too is gonna be hard enough, when managers are already actively shopping them around, but then to sell our club as a desired destination is a massive task. Would Dion Prestia want to come to Essendon if we are gutted in the off season. The list management team have done well over the past couple of years, but the next 12months will define our immediate future. the draft may turn out to be the easy part of their job this year.
Not quite cuban cigar winning, but very close.
And only part of the nightmare.
How can Essendon not be allowed to talk to contracted players for 2017. Has the world gone mad.
Not allowed yes thats correct Adrian has to go through their Managers. And theyâre not making it easy at all.
Actually I believe the club are allowed to negotiate contracts with players. In the case of the Connors players itâs been their choice to have all negotiations via their manager.
How can Essendon not be allowed to talk to contracted players for 2017. Has the world gone mad.
Not allowed yes thats correct Adrian has to go through their Managers. And theyâre not making it easy at all.
Actually I believe the club are allowed to negotiate contracts with players. In the case of the Connors players itâs been their choice to have all negotiations via their manager.
That is factually wrong. Club need to go through playerâs manager and ask if they can speak to players there are only 3 or 4 talking at the moment. Others do not want to speak to the club.
How can Essendon not be allowed to talk to contracted players for 2017. Has the world gone mad.
Not allowed yes thats correct Adrian has to go through their Managers. And theyâre not making it easy at all.
Actually I believe the club are allowed to negotiate contracts with players. In the case of the Connors players itâs been their choice to have all negotiations via their manager.
That is factually wrong. Club need to go through playerâs manager and ask if they can speak to players there are only 3 or 4 talking at the moment. Others do not want to speak to the club.
Sorry I thought you were alluding to ânot allowedâ to speak directly with players due to WADA bans.