I'm waiting to see how the Bellchambers, Daniher and Carlisle combo goes.
Our midfield has gone backwards this year. Jobe was good early and last weekend but was ordinary in those three losses. Howlett can't find the ball enough and when he does is indecisive. Budda and Myers have struggled with injuries and sickness, Zacka is out of form and has lost his zip (I've never seen him get caught so often). I love Heppel's ability to run all day and find the ball but his disposal has been poor. He needs to hurt opposition more when he has the ball. Goddard's games have been good all through and his possessions telling. Stants has been OK but teams are tagging him and restricting his influence. The youngsters, Gleason, Merrets look promising but don't get enough of the ball.
I think Paddy Ryder has been good in the ruck, really playing a lone hand
Collectively all of them need a good kick up the bum. They are the ball carriers who create the play and set up opportunities for the goal kickers. If they play like they have this week against Sydney we are in BIG trouble.
Our forward line is a joke. Carlisle just can't take a mark inside 50 and is just not desperate enough. Our forward pressure we showed against Hawthorn in the second half is gone. Joe will be great one day but the reality is opposition teams know that if they put body pressure on Daniher he is out of the contest. However on the lead he is quick and has good hands. Why does he not play out of the goal square and lead from there. Then again his kicking for goal is poor at best. Hard to believe that his kicking can be so woeful when his dad and uncles were so good by foot, even when they first started playing.
Chappy must play the majority of the game inside 50, get 12-15 possies and have 5 shots at goal NOT 20+ possies in the midfield.
I'm glad Ambrose is back because he will tackle and hit packs hard. I'm not sure if having Belly and Kommer back will make a difference but we certainly need to see how a structural change might impact the performance because at the moment the plan aint working.
I think that is harsh on Heppell, Hocking and Melksham. Heppell I think has improved and the other two are as good as they were at this time of the year. Stanton is down, Zaha is down, Myers is missing, Jobe is down, but worst of all our game plan does not seem to be working. We had DE of about 60% on the weekend with mostly the same mids who last year were averaging about 90%. I think a big part of the problem is the gameplan.We kicked 21 goals against Carlton with only 2 coming from Carlisle & JD. Fix the midfield & the forward line will improve (or at least be less of an obvious problem) . While we are getting beaten around the contest our forward line will continue to be dragged out of the forward area to compensate & we will struggle to score. Our best goal scorer (Chappy) has spent much of the last few games playing up the ground - why, because our midfield is getting beaten. At 32 he should be played very sparingly on the ball & like Fletch, shouldn't be rellied upon to carry a huge load.
Look at last year when we were playing better footy. We still didn't have that dominant forward & Crameri with the occasional 3 goals was as good as it got BUT our midfield was performing & that allowed us to have Watson, Goddard, Zaka etc spend time forward (not just to break tags) & remain competitive in the middle when they were rotated. Zaka, Melksham, Heppel, Hocking & Howlett as a group are all down on where they were at this time last year. Add a few down games from Jobe, injuries to BJ & Myers who is possibly the only guy who looked like he'd improved in the midfield & you have a big reason why we are struggling to get enough scores.
Just to clarify on Heppel, I think his output has increased but his effectiveness has dropped. He's a fulltime mid now & with the others falling off he has been given more responsibility & the attention that goes with it. I think he's struggled at times to get the space & time he needs to use his creativity. Instead his lack of pace is continually seeing him under pressure & he's been turning it over more than we'd like.
Melksham is different as I'm not sure anyone could really say he is playing near his level of last year particularly in the middle to late year when he was regularly getting 20+ & kicking goals. In number terms he's down & effectiveness he's well down. Hocking, like Melksham is down on numbers & I'm not sure if his defensive side has been that great either. His game against Carlton was outstanding (as was everyones) but then 8,7 & 10 disposals in his next 3 games is a terrible return.
I'm with you on the problems with the gameplan but as I've long said - it all starts with the midfield. With our mids down we continually drag our forwards up into the contest to get extra numbers around the ball. This is why we all too often have nothing to kick to & our forwards desperately running back into the fwd 50 to make a contest rather than a structure of leading towards the ball carriers.
Surprised to see a recruitment of a forward thread without a discussion on who we would be willing to give up in trade for one. For a genuine forward we need to give up best 22 players. I would be willing to give up one or two of Hurley, Dempsey, Melksham and/or Howlett for a key forward with picks in the process.
Our midfield has gone backwards this year. Jobe was good early and last weekend but was ordinary in those three losses. Howlett can't find the ball enough and when he does is indecisive. Budda and Myers have struggled with injuries and sickness, Zacka is out of form and has lost his zip (I've never seen him get caught so often). I love Heppel's ability to run all day and find the ball but his disposal has been poor. He needs to hurt opposition more when he has the ball. Goddard's games have been good all through and his possessions telling. Stants has been OK but teams are tagging him and restricting his influence. The youngsters, Gleason, Merrets look promising but don't get enough of the ball.
I think Paddy Ryder has been good in the ruck, really playing a lone hand
Collectively all of them need a good kick up the bum. They are the ball carriers who create the play and set up opportunities for the goal kickers. If they play like they have this week against Sydney we are in BIG trouble.
Our forward line is a joke. Carlisle just can't take a mark inside 50 and is just not desperate enough. Our forward pressure we showed against Hawthorn in the second half is gone. Joe will be great one day but the reality is opposition teams know that if they put body pressure on Daniher he is out of the contest. However on the lead he is quick and has good hands. Why does he not play out of the goal square and lead from there. Then again his kicking for goal is poor at best. Hard to believe that his kicking can be so woeful when his dad and uncles were so good by foot, even when they first started playing.
Chappy must play the majority of the game inside 50, get 12-15 possies and have 5 shots at goal NOT 20+ possies in the midfield.
I'm glad Ambrose is back because he will tackle and hit packs hard. I'm not sure if having Belly and Kommer back will make a difference but we certainly need to see how a structural change might impact the performance because at the moment the plan aint working.
I wish I could like this post 10 times.
Basically our problems come down to a few things.
Effort, Attitude and Structure.
Next week we could fix both effort and attitude (if the players are willing) but structure will still be a problem up forward particularly if Chapman gets rubbed out.
Melkshams end to last year is the most overrated rubbish around. The guy is a pointless footballer, adds nothing, rarely gets over 20 possessions and has escaped scrutiny due to 5 ok games in how many now? 50 odd?
Yeh i'm thinking the midfield must be the problem and has been for a few years. How else could it be an issue when we had hurley, crameri, monfries, Davey, ryder, bellchambers, gumbleton, now daniher, carlisle, chappy and winderlich and still the forward lines output is pathetic. The finger needs to be pointed at the midfield, look at teams like the dogs from years ago and even west coast when they were successful, rubbish no name forward lines but the strength of their midfields overshadowed it and still allowed them to be top 4 material.
Surprised to see a recruitment of a forward thread without a discussion on who we would be willing to give up in trade for one. For a genuine forward we need to give up best 22 players. I would be willing to give up one or two of Hurley, Dempsey, Melksham and/or Howlett for a key forward with picks in the process.
Only player people would seemingly be of any value is Tom Bellchambers.
Yeah nuh, don't see that happening
Melkshams end to last year is the most overrated rubbish around. The guy is a pointless footballer, adds nothing, rarely gets over 20 possessions and has escaped scrutiny due to 5 ok games in how many now? 50 odd?
Yeh i'm thinking the midfield must be the problem and has been for a few years. How else could it be an issue when we had hurley, crameri, monfries, Davey, ryder, bellchambers, gumbleton, now daniher, carlisle, chappy and winderlich and still the forward lines output is pathetic. The finger needs to be pointed at the midfield, look at teams like the dogs from years ago and even west coast when they were successful, rubbish no name forward lines but the strength of their midfields overshadowed it and still allowed them to be top 4 material.
Between rounds 10-20 last year he was averaging 21.5 (7 out of 10 games over 20 touches) & kicked 9 goals in 10 games. Thats a good return from any second rotation mid. Its not elite by any stretch but it was good & looked like improving. Considering his 2012 average was only just under 15 per game there's no doubt Melks' 2013 was upward trending & there was reason to expect it to continue (he's only 22).
We had a forward last year in Crameri and let him go. Clearly we don't think we need to recruit a forward
We had a forward last year in Crameri and let him go. Clearly we don't think we need to recruit a forward
Yes that's exactly how I remember it. We didn't try anything that would've worked, like imprisonment, or hypnotism... instead we just treated him like everyone else.
shame, EFC, shame.
Crameri was the glue that held our forward line together.
He doesn't kick a lot of goals (having said that he was our leading goalkicker) but jesus we could bomb away to him & he'd pluck it, & if he didn't mark it he'd rove his own work & still beat his opponent more times than not. Plus he had an engine that made our game plan work with the 18 man press because he could get on his bike when we won possession in the middle & outrun his opponent to get dangerous forward of the ball. In the air or on the ground he was hard to beat.
Now we have two, maybe three (Belly) dinosaurs in the forward line yet we persist with all forwards pressing up into the midfield when defending. At least one tall forward should be staying inside the forward 50 Ala Hawkins for Geelong. It doesn't need to be the same forward everytime but as a team they should be trying to keep one in the forward 50.
If the opposition want to try to utilize their full back by running off our stay at home forward then good luck, we'd only need one goal from a turnover & all of a sudden their going to be frightened to try to run off.
It's our game plan that sucks & does not seem to have been rejigged after the loss of Crameri.
Our midfield has gone backwards this year. Jobe was good early and last weekend but was ordinary in those three losses. Howlett can't find the ball enough and when he does is indecisive. Budda and Myers have struggled with injuries and sickness, Zacka is out of form and has lost his zip (I've never seen him get caught so often). I love Heppel's ability to run all day and find the ball but his disposal has been poor. He needs to hurt opposition more when he has the ball. Goddard's games have been good all through and his possessions telling. Stants has been OK but teams are tagging him and restricting his influence. The youngsters, Gleason, Merrets look promising but don't get enough of the ball.
I think Paddy Ryder has been good in the ruck, really playing a lone hand
Collectively all of them need a good kick up the bum. They are the ball carriers who create the play and set up opportunities for the goal kickers. If they play like they have this week against Sydney we are in BIG trouble.
Our forward line is a joke. Carlisle just can't take a mark inside 50 and is just not desperate enough. Our forward pressure we showed against Hawthorn in the second half is gone. Joe will be great one day but the reality is opposition teams know that if they put body pressure on Daniher he is out of the contest. However on the lead he is quick and has good hands. Why does he not play out of the goal square and lead from there. Then again his kicking for goal is poor at best. Hard to believe that his kicking can be so woeful when his dad and uncles were so good by foot, even when they first started playing.
Chappy must play the majority of the game inside 50, get 12-15 possies and have 5 shots at goal NOT 20+ possies in the midfield.
I'm glad Ambrose is back because he will tackle and hit packs hard. I'm not sure if having Belly and Kommer back will make a difference but we certainly need to see how a structural change might impact the performance because at the moment the plan aint working.
I wish I could like this post 10 times.
Basically our problems come down to a few things.
Effort, Attitude and Structure.
Next week we could fix both effort and attitude (if the players are willing) but structure will still be a problem up forward particularly if Chapman gets rubbed out.
When Chapman gets rubbed out........
Crameri was the glue that held our forward line together.
He doesn't kick a lot of goals (having said that he was our leading goalkicker) but jesus we could bomb away to him & he'd pluck it, & if he didn't mark it he'd rove his own work & still beat his opponent more times than not. Plus he had an engine that made our game plan work with the 18 man press because he could get on his bike when we won possession in the middle & outrun his opponent to get dangerous forward of the ball. In the air or on the ground he was hard to beat.
Now we have two, maybe three (Belly) dinosaurs in the forward line yet we persist with all forwards pressing up into the midfield when defending. At least one tall forward should be staying inside the forward 50 Ala Hawkins for Geelong. It doesn't need to be the same forward everytime but as a team they should be trying to keep one in the forward 50.
If the opposition want to try to utilize their full back by running off our stay at home forward then good luck, we'd only need one goal from a turnover & all of a sudden their going to be frightened to try to run off.
It's our game plan that sucks & does not seem to have been rejigged after the loss of Crameri.
As much as I liked Crameri you may be re-writing history. He often had injuries and struggled to move freely.
Crameri was the glue that held our forward line together.
He doesn't kick a lot of goals (having said that he was our leading goalkicker) but jesus we could bomb away to him & he'd pluck it, & if he didn't mark it he'd rove his own work & still beat his opponent more times than not. Plus he had an engine that made our game plan work with the 18 man press because he could get on his bike when we won possession in the middle & outrun his opponent to get dangerous forward of the ball. In the air or on the ground he was hard to beat.
Now we have two, maybe three (Belly) dinosaurs in the forward line yet we persist with all forwards pressing up into the midfield when defending. At least one tall forward should be staying inside the forward 50 Ala Hawkins for Geelong. It doesn't need to be the same forward everytime but as a team they should be trying to keep one in the forward 50.
If the opposition want to try to utilize their full back by running off our stay at home forward then good luck, we'd only need one goal from a turnover & all of a sudden their going to be frightened to try to run off.
It's our game plan that sucks & does not seem to have been rejigged after the loss of Crameri.
As much as I liked Crameri you may be re-writing history. He often had injuries and struggled to move freely.
.........................and spent time in the twos!
Considering our well document lack of forwards who actually know how to lead up and present at the ball. i reckon we should go after either Sam Reid or Adam Tomlinson as both can hit up and present very well. They are both victorians living in sydney so would entertain the thought of coming home and both are playing 3rd/4th fiddle in their respective teams with the likes of franklin, tippet, goodes, cameron, boyd and patton taking priority over them. Both work hard up and down the ground and have plenty of upside as both are in their early 20's. Thoughts???
HOW MANY GAME JAKE CARLISLE PLAY FORWARD?
Great first post. You are on the right track. I believe we either recruit a promising forward of the ilk of Lucas or coach Buckets and JD to lead. To continue to just bomb the ball deep as we did against the Lions hoping for a big grab will continue to result in opposition clearances rather than goals. Sure we may scrounge the odd couple goals as we did against the Lions but for permanent results lead boys lead. Lloyd and Riewoldt scored most of their goals by leading upfield, not by pack grabs..
I reserve my judgement until bellcrumber plays a month of footy in the 1sts.
He has shown to regularly kick bags of 3-4 when spending more time forward. He has proven to be a successful key forward - that influences the I50s and the game, something JC and JD have yet to prove.
Also think it would be handy for Kommer,Ambrose, Winder to string more an 2 games together with the big guys.
Get Courtney johns out of retirement.
Great first post. You are on the right track. I believe we either recruit a promising forward of the ilk of Lucas or coach Buckets and JD to lead. To continue to just bomb the ball deep as we did against the Lions hoping for a big grab will continue to result in opposition clearances rather than goals. Sure we may scrounge the odd couple goals as we did against the Lions but for permanent results lead boys lead. Lloyd and Riewoldt scored most of their goals by leading upfield, not by pack grabs..
Right on IMO. Bellchambers is the only one who can take a pack grab as a FF. Both Joe and Jake tend to be pushed aside too easily . But you are right. Full forwards must take the ball out in front on a lead, with the defender riding them into the ground to pay for it. The rewards are there but its only a strong body that can take the punishment. Guys like Salmon, Dunstall, Lloyd. Maybe they are from another era, but unless defenders arms are longer today, it still remains the way to consistently get more than 3 goals a game. If you look carefully at the vision when Zerret kicked a 50 metre pass into the square, you will see Paddy point to the square and then run into it. Beautiful play and perfect execution.