Sorry Saga - “It’s actually quite funny people thinking they know more than they actually do”


#4483

Trying to find that video of the mysterious drink, and lo… I can’t find it anywhere. As if someone didn’t want me to see it.


#4484

Could someone with a legal background tell me if I should be outraged by the exchange between Clelland and Subiotto regarding the admissibility of evidence or is it just the way things happen in court?
Because that sure doesn’t sound like good procedure.

Also, good work getting these bits of the CAS transcript, J34. Have you got the full thing or just bits?


#4485

Found it on ProQuest

Gumbleton builds life and career beyond ‘the saga’
Prime, Toby. Heidelberg Leader; Blackburn, Vic. [Blackburn, Vic]15 May 2018: 19.THE taunts are always met with a laugh.

Opponents thinking they may be able to get under his skin by pointing to one of the game’s greatest controversies.

Constant injury setbacks left Banyule captain Scott Gumbleton’s potential largely unfulfilled but his 35-game AFL career received one final hammer blow on January 12, 2016 when he was as one of 34 past and present Essendon players banned for 12 months for doping offences.

But Gumbleton remained unperturbed by the occasional sledge, returning to football to inspire the Bears to their maiden NFL premiership. He booted two goals in a best afield showing in Banyule’s 25-point win over South Morang.

“Every now and then someone says something but I actually just kind of laugh at it,” Gumbleton said. “It’s actually quite funny people thinking they know more than they actually do. Stuff like, ‘go get another jab’ … I just laugh it off, it doesn’t bother me at all.” The 29-year-old maintains his innocence and has moved to establish himself outside of the football bubble, completing his third year as an apprentice electrician.

Understandably, the relentlessness of the rumour and innuendo has left him keen to move on from arguably the biggest story in AFL history.

“It definitely weights on your mind, I’ve sort of got to a point now and I think a lot of the guys have, where you just get over it,” he said. “There’s nothing I can do about it, I still think I am innocent, I think everyone still thinks they are innocent.”Scott Gumbleton talks to Toby Prime at localfooty.com.au

CREDIT: Toby Prime

Word count: 267
©News Limited Australia. All rights reserved.


#4486

He is being groomed for a job at AFL House that tells you a lot about the man.


#4487

Here you go

Googling “Chris Judd magic blue powder” took me to an Ings tweet which had the youtube vid imbedded. Judd’s bit is right at the end.

Must look into how to capture it for posterity’s sake. It’d be good to crop it to that last 20 seconds for liberal replaying when and where ever possible too.

edit: I just noticed the date - that must have been really close to the game when they were pretty much flag favourites but we gave them a physical hiding and they got all upset and bleated to the AFL - at the very least fueling, but maybe even starting, the rumor mill. Quite ironic.


#4488

honestly just once I want someone to ask “What do you think you were given”.


#4489

Bruce distributed this out widely. It shows Essendon was not isolated and Fitzpatrick is selective. It’s long so posted in two parts:

I don’t believe Fitzpatrick was telling the truth about a rival player. I think his source was the following

Essendon was resoundingly defeated in their final game of the 2011 season [Elimination final against Carlton – 62 point margin]. For some persons within the club, this loss was the impetus behind the 2012 drive to develop ‘bigger and stronger’ players (NB this is not true. Evans, Robson, Thompson, Hird and Corcoran discussed the problem in May 2011.)
It would seem this edict by Essendon to build a bigger and stronger athlete did not go unnoticed amongst its peers with anecdotal evidence being proffered by Justin Cordy, the High Performance Manager for CFC. Cordy stated that since arriving at Carlton in 2007 he has built what he described as ‘the benchmark’ sports science and medical model against which other clubs can be measured against. [BCF Comment: ASADA should have asked Cordy what is sports science; what does his program involve; what makes it the benchmark; how do clubs measure themselves against him; does his program involve only weights, running etc or does it involve taking supplements or peptides or using hyperbaric chambers. What does he do to treat and prevent injuries that others don’t do. Does that involve the use of supplements or peptides]
Cordy recalled that his suspicions about Essendon’s program arose following Carlton’s surprise loss to Essendon on 21 April 2012. Cordy recalled that following the loss Essendon was a ‘burning topic at Carlton,’ people wanted to know, well, what’s going on’.
‘[Essendon] were wounded going into the game, supposedly lots of injuries. We were going well and expected to win. And they basically just came out and bashed us… I remember a couple of Carlton players after that game making comments, “Wow, I’ve never seen Essendon run that hard. I can’t believe what they were doing”. They actually made comment. “Well, Essendon has raised the bar.” And we had beaten the year earlier by 80 odd points in a final in Melbourne. So that transition, to me, with the weight gain that occurred through the club – and was quite publicised – over the pre-season, it probably aroused my suspicions. Fair to say I was sort of curious. Now, that suspicion, not in illegal or legal sense, just suspicious, “Well, I wonder what they are doing.” I mean whether they’ve found the secret elixir or they have got a program together; was there something going on in the industry that I don’t know about?” If we had won the game, and – I mean, you probably wouldn’t be suspicious But when you sort of see the outcome and you go “Geez, they absolutely bullied us to death.” And, I mean, our players are coming off going, “Well, I’ve never seen that player run as hard as he’s run.
Cordy recalled that in June 2012 Carlton become aware of compounding pharmacist Alavi who had been working with another AFL club’s high performance and nutrition team. In furtherance of his earlier suspicions, on 27 June 2012 Cordy and Carlton Physiologist, Johann Bilsborough met with Alavi.
According to Cordy during their meeting with Alavi the topics of conversation were tailor made ‘amino acid therapy’ for individual players, Coenzyme Q10 and vitamins. Overall Cordy stated he was unimpressed by any of the products or services offered by Alavi. Ultimately, Cordy reported back to Carlton board members Marcus Clarke and Greg Swann that having met with Essendon’s pharmacist there was nothing ‘going on at Essendon that we can elaborate on’. Although stating he was unaware at the time, Corby revealed that he later learnt Bilsborough had covertly recorded their meeting with Alavi via his iphone. ASADA have been advised however that the recording has since been lost due to a technical issue with that iphone.
Following their meeting with Alavi, ASADA has established that both Bilsborough and Alavi exchanged a number of emails – one which is of particular interest. On 6 July 2012, Alavi emailed Bilsborough to thank him for the meeting and to recommend a series of essential testing for the Carlton players. In the email Alavi stated that once they have an accurate hormone profile for each player ‘we can use peptide therapy … peptides can be used to boost hormone levels without showing any increase in the blood stream (via the use receptor modulating peptides)’


#4490

On 27 August 2012, Bilsborough again emailed Alavi to enquire ‘what had happened to those bombers?? They have fallen so fast being 8-1 to go 3-11 in the second half of the season.’
In response Alavi stated:
I think the Bombers are in some financial difficulty so they stopped all the various therapies 3 months back … I stopped supply of my therapies back in April, as he did the hyperbaric provider, as did the lactaway guys in Sydney … Late April smooth muscle injuries sent them on a downward spiral. What they didn’t realise is that if you supplement players to improve performance you must continue to strengthen the body to sustain such superior performance. It’s like putting a V* engine into a mini … eventually the engine infrastructure will crack.’
It is worthy to also note that the last email correspondence between Alavi and Bilsborough, which occurred on 10 December 2012, contained a recommendation from Alavi that for the 2013 season Carlton consider intravenous infusion therapy, pre-game injections and infusions and post-game injections and infusions. The investigation has not revealed any evidence indicating that Alavi’s advice was acted upon by Carlton (Alavi has declined to speak with ASADA).


#4491

I think if you compare the approaches to evidence in the two Russian CAS cases ( summarised in the conclusions of the reports) - as well as the approach of the AFL tribunal - you will see the different principles applied to evidence, although the CAS Russian cases and the Essendon case purport to apply Swiss procedural law.
I am more familiar with the approach in the Russia cases , in that an assertion needs to be suppported by facts (and relevant facts at that) and while contextual circumstantial evidence is not ruled out, there still need to be sufficient relevant facts.
While there are differences of detail in different legal systems - and differences between legislated and customary rules of evidence- I would hold that customary rules of evidence do not differ widely in regard to underlying principles.
This is a bit long winded, but in my view and based on my experience, the CAS Essendon arbitrators were cavalier with evidence and under a normal appeal system would be accused of failing to apply the general principles of international procedural law. They could also stand accused of bias in regard to their failure to observe due process.


#4492

Magic blue powder


#4493

They thought they were given what they were told they were given? what else would they answer??? can the tell you categorically what it was no because like the rest of us when you get given something you believe it is what they tell you. If people researched their own drugs as much as they think players should research their stuff (chemical analysis) they would never take them but they trust they wont be given something dangerous …how wrong they are there …but that is another matter all players signed a consent form not a secrecy pledge like CAS & the media said …they were informed they may or may not get x y z depending on their requirements …they weren’t told they would all get it because it wasn’t a team based programme


#4494

Surely there are records somewhere of what each individual player received or the players would know which of the listed supplements they received.


#4495

Hi all

Tomorrow night I am fortunate enough to have Chip Le Grand as guest on our Lunchtime Catch Up Podcast.

We will be discussing Mike Fitzpatrick’s recent comments but I am just reaching out to ask key questions that you feel you would want to hear answered from Chip. Interview is only 15 mins likely but we want to make it as beneficial as possible. Open to your comments and thoughts


#4496

C. Johns.
Could you post a link up for your pod cast so we can check it out?


#4497

Yep for sure

Our channel is here. Podcast is tomorrow night


#4498

GUMBY is only 29? Bring him in!


#4499

Right… so beating a team that flogged you 7 months earlier has never happened in the history of AFL football.

Magic blue powder… I think the most irritating part of that video is when he actually name drops the East German swim team.


#4500

@CJohns does chip’s parents know they set him up for a beautiful career in ■■■■? or an 80s cop detective?


#4501

I’d really like you to ask him about journalistic ethics in light of the Ess scandal. To what extent does he think that other journalists were writing stories which only put one view and does he think this is appropriate?

Background obviously being that Caro was receiving leaks from the AFL and in return for this privileged access was writing articles which pushed the company line


#4502

On The Mark: Stewart Crameri opens up on Essendon supplements saga, Stephen Dank
AFL
Riley Beveridge
May 16, 2018 3:05pm
RILEY [email protected]
Source: FOX SPORTS
FORMER Essendon player Stewart Crameri has revealed the banned group of Bombers “put faith and trust” into disgraced sports scientist Stephen Dank, only to be horribly let down.
In an emotional and wide-ranging interview with Fox Footy’s On The Mark, set to be aired on Wednesday evening, Crameri opened up on Dank being the “architect” of the club’s controversial supplements saga.

Thirty-four past and present Essendon players were forced to serve 12-month suspensions as a result of the controversy, with Crameri labelling Dank as “clumsy” and laying the majority of the blame at his feet.

“Someone else at the club, I don’t want to mention his name, but (he) probably was the architect of it all,” Crameri told Fox Footy’s On The Mark.

“I can only speak for myself … but I think he was clumsy with some of his dealings with us. I’m not sure what was going through his head, but a lot of people have been affected by it. It hasn’t been good.”

Crameri later named Dank as the Essendon official he was talking about, saying the players were hopeful he would eventually speak out and reveal what they had been injected with.

“We were hopeful that he would come out and actually help us out and say what he did and actually fix the issue that he created,” Crameri said.

“From that point of view, we were just waiting and waiting and he never came out and said anything. It was disappointing to see.

“We put faith and trust into Dank and he led us down the wrong path, obviously.”

An emotional Crameri broke down as he told of the stress that the saga, as well as the subsequent 12-month ban, had on him, his family and his mates.

“It’s okay that it’s happened to me, it’s just the family and friends and all of the pressure that I’ve put on them,” Crameri said.

“It’s all of the pressure that gets put on all of the people at the club. It was just really hard to see all of these great people going through this stuff. They were getting slagged through the media. They were my friends.

“For someone to be guilty of something when they’re innocent, it’s just really hard to take. If you’re guilty, then that’s fair enough. But when you didn’t intentionally do anything wrong, I think that’s the hardest part to swallow.”

ON THE MARK WILL AIR ON FOX FOOTY AT 8.30PM WEDNESDAY NIGHT